Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Military Aviation
Reload this Page >

Apache and Royal Marines

Military Aviation A forum for the professionals who fly military hardware. Also for the backroom boys and girls who support the flying and maintain the equipment, and without whom nothing would ever leave the ground. All armies, navies and air forces of the world equally welcome here.

Apache and Royal Marines

Old 17th Jan 2007, 12:33
  #21 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Hunched over a keyboard
Posts: 1,190
Originally Posted by GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU View Post
Losing 3 valuable flesh and blood assets and an operationally scarce machine to recover a dead comrade is one hell of a risk. Isn't that how the US got their arrses handed back to them in a sling in Somalia?.
I don't believe that they knew he was dead. Given the historical evidence of what happens to prisoners in that part of the world, you could not leave a man who MAY be alive in the hands of Afghan rebels.
moggiee is offline  
Old 17th Jan 2007, 12:34
  #22 (permalink)  
Posts: n/a
GBZ don't talk rot, the knowledge that your oppo's will always make the effort to rescue you is worth more than any pep talk in the world.

And since when has a piece of equipment not been worth risking to save the life of a Royal Marine? If that is the way of things then everything would be in grease paper in storage.
Old 17th Jan 2007, 12:35
  #23 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2002
Location: "Deplorable but happy as a drunken Monkey!
Age: 72
Posts: 16,612

The Apache does not have the same structure of the Cobra. Even on the Cobra, the external passengers rode out in the open on top of the doors but had no harness or any way to secure themselves to the aircraft beyond holding on.

When the Apache came along...the aircrew survival vest incorporated a carabiner type link to facilitate being secured to the aircraft using the devices built into the aircraft for use during such rides. It was a simple mod to the aircraft that afforded the ability to do what has been done.

The incident under discussion here is the first I heard of troops riding into the LZ.

The fact people have ridden on the outside of a gunship before.....in no way diminishes the Courage and Dedication exemplified by the Marines being praised here.

They are to be greatly admired for what they did.
SASless is offline  
Old 17th Jan 2007, 13:02
  #24 (permalink)  
Green Flash
Posts: n/a
Thanks SAS. Suggest we all invest in karabiners sharpish!
Old 17th Jan 2007, 13:13
  #25 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2006
Location: 2 m South of Radstock VRP
Posts: 2,042

I didn't read the possibility of L/Cpl Ford still being alive into the news report. The report I heard earlier on the radio seemed in no doubt that he was known to be dead. If he was believed to be possibly alive, I modify my Post accordingly.
GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU is offline  
Old 17th Jan 2007, 13:36
  #26 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 444
The UK news agenda today is quite despicable. The top story is about Celebrity Big Brother - everywhere. Such a complete waste of time. The Apache story is way down the list.

Anyone got an Apache near Elstree to pick-up 3 rather dumb women ? There's a reservation waiting for them at the Helmand Hilton.
JimBall is offline  
Old 17th Jan 2007, 14:15
  #27 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: lahr germany
Age: 81
Posts: 27
First RIP L/Cpl Ford and condolences to his family and friends.
Second where does the modern British society get such men.I,due to
the magic of satellite TV,can watch BBC 1,2,3,4,ITV1,2,3,4, and find
it very difficult to imagine that this whining ,me, me,me,alcohol-soaked
socialist society as depicted on TV could have produced men such as
these Marines.However maybe something of the Churchillian spirit is still
present in the UK, as an expat. I can only hope so.
One should not mourn these men one should thank God they
time expired is offline  
Old 17th Jan 2007, 14:42
  #28 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 193
I am led to believe it all done with magnets.
Jeep is offline  
Old 17th Jan 2007, 14:52
  #29 (permalink)  
London Mil
Posts: n/a
Not our chaps but it gives you an idea.

Old 17th Jan 2007, 14:58
  #30 (permalink)  
Posts: n/a
Originally Posted by time expired View Post
First RIP L/Cpl Ford and condolences to his family and friends.
Second where does the modern British society get such men.

You don't get such men from British society, you get them from Lympstone Commando. Some of the best training in the world turns young men into Royal Marine Commandos. Very few meet the standard and 99.9% need not apply.

Hoorah and Huzah.
Old 17th Jan 2007, 15:41
  #31 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Nottingham UK
Age: 81
Posts: 5,546
BZ to the Royals and Army air Corps. RIP L/Cpl Ford and condolences to nearest and dearest.

Group Captain Barwell in 1943 proposed a method of transporting a couple of ground crewman in canvas bag mounted on top of each wing of a Spitfire. The bag was to be attached using a loop secured to the barrel of the 20mm cannon and the rear of the bag was secured to the wing trailing edge inside of the flap.
It is believed that this scheme was never air-tested with a human passenger for want of a volunteer!!
MReyn24050 is offline  
Old 17th Jan 2007, 16:29
  #32 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Deepest darkest London
Posts: 256
Apologies in advance for not qualifying as being a military, or for that matter any other aircrew type, however given that others that are not, still frequent this section........ what the Hell

Although I escaped from Immingham long ago, I know L/Cpl Ford's Mother and Stepfather, and I know they would be very pleased to hear that you guys are heaping praise on their son, and the brave lads that risked their own lives to recover him.

I can only remember him as being a spotty teenager, but like some of his RM colleagues, that I met while they did a certain Ex last month. I have the utmost respect for what they do on the ground, just as much as what some of you the aircrew do up above.

As for the news today I agree that some of the personalities could do with a spell in Helmand, instead of harping on ad-nausea how perfect they are.


Valiantone is offline  
Old 17th Jan 2007, 16:34
  #33 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: SW England
Age: 66
Posts: 1,307
Thought I remembered reading something on this subject elsewhere, then found it here:


The pertinent part comes in the airframe description of the Mi28 Havoc:

"port-side door, aft of wing, provides access to avionics compartment large enough to permit combat rescue of two or three persons on ground, although it lacks windows, heating and ventilation."

I've a feeling the Israelis also took a hard look at mods to their AH64s with a view to using them for battlefield extractions too.
Thud_and_Blunder is offline  
Old 17th Jan 2007, 16:49
  #34 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 1
From all members of 656 Squadron AAC, at JHF(A)
Thank you to the 4 brave volunteers that helped recover their fallen comrade.
Thank you to the brave commander that authorised the recovery of his last man (The loneliness of command in those 5 shocking minutes!)
Our sincere condolences go out to the family, fiancé and friends of Lance Corporal Matthew Ford.
THE WIZZARD is offline  
Old 17th Jan 2007, 17:49
  #35 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2006
Location: East Anglia
Posts: 289

Humble civvy here. I saw the usual dribble about some chav programme on TV and was venting my fury in the direction of the good woman. Then the report came on about this incredible event. I struggled to relay the story, incredible bravery almost beyond comprehension. I can only echo the comments of others... These people are 'Great' in Great Britain. As for Mrs Micro, she was equally frustrated at the 'big story' and was speechless and almost in tears as I told her of this brave action.
Bliar does not deserve the luxury of such quality being at his disposal.

AAC Officer at Middle Wallop demonstrated personnel holding on by external grab handles immediately aft of cockpit and described this as a CSAR option. He did mention use of karabiners (sp?).

My condolences to the family of the young Royal Marine. Godspeed.
microlight AV8R is offline  
Old 17th Jan 2007, 18:13
  #36 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Wooburn Green
Age: 61
Posts: 4
DFC Recognition

Its about time my Army Air Corps buddies got the recognition they severely deserve for these outstanding acts of bravery alongside these mighty feats of brave courage from the Marines and Para's.........

Last edited by Sub-Min; 17th Jan 2007 at 18:17. Reason: Addition
Sub-Min is offline  
Old 17th Jan 2007, 18:17
  #37 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Anywhere
Posts: 567
Now those are Oppos!!

Great effort by the Apache drivers,

RIP Royal

timex is offline  
Old 17th Jan 2007, 18:58
  #38 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: On the outside looking in
Posts: 542
Firstly, condolences to L/Cpl Ford's family, fiance, friends and colleagues.

Secondly, my great respect to those that strapped on and to those that flew them in.

As part of the process of getting the Apaches out to 'stan, the need to strap on was considered and included in the RTS advice, unfortunately this isn't the outcome those involved would have wanted.

Safeware is offline  
Old 17th Jan 2007, 19:20
  #39 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 552
Deepest sympathy to L/Cpl Ford's family and friends.

Wonderful story of the bravery and commitment to recover a fallen comrade.

I hopr those involved get the recognition they deserve.

Doc C
Doctor Cruces is offline  
Old 17th Jan 2007, 19:50
  #40 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Various
Posts: 290
Salute to both the fallen Marine and the Apache drivers.

Another war and some other Marines: http://www.popasmoke.com/story14.html
StbdD is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.