Special thanks from Wiltshire Constabulary!!

[gar170]

Up date
Just had a visit frome the police about the damage last night.
asked how many tyres was damaged where was the car parked all of which was told when reported.
Then asked to have a look at the car first thing they looked at was the bloody tax disc.
Then told that they cant realy do anymore goodnight.
Thanks a Bloody bunch.

[Fast but Safe]

mlc. Just tell us where the gypsy camp was so we can be done with it. Otherwise most people will think you've concocted this whole thing up.

Also, why would you go and say something so childish as "If you're ever driving through the Midlands, it would give me great pleasure to meet up!!" ? The exclamation marks at the end obviously mean you'd love to pull him over and book him with something.

FbS

[The Swinging Monkey]

mlc,
Thanks for the reply, but I didn't doubt you were in the mob; I think you will find I actually questioned your position in the police force. Yes, I do know a great deal more about flying than I will ever know about policing, simply because like the rest of the public in this country, I haven't got a clue what the hell the police do MOST of their time (apart from when you're out nicking motorists of course)

I am a pilot (ex RAF) and I don't sweep the streets.

The thing that confuses me, and I know will confuse the rest of the readers of this forum is this:
You say that you have only 4 officers to 500 square miles. I believe you!
You say you haven't enough officers to tackle crime. I believe you!
You (the police) claim you are undermanned. I believe you!
You claim to be underpaid. I kind of believe you!

I have just one question therefore;
If you are so undermanned, to the extent that you (the police) are constantly bleating on about (and I do still believe you!) how can you justify to me and every other member of the public 'wasting' so many of these valuable officers' time spent nicking speeding motorists ALL THE BLOODY TIME?

There is almost always 2 police-manned speed traps that I know of here in Lincolshire. I have no doubt it's the same in Wilts and in the Midlands. Just tell us how you justify that? If you DO NOT have to meet quotas, why are police officers always available to persecute motorists, but there are never any available to help with our friends above who have and are victims of real crime?

I for one don't believe you can justify it, and its because of that, that you no longer command the respect of the majority of this country's public. I have always respected you guys. I have always been prepared to put myself out to help in any way I can. But not anymore. After you have been burgled 4 or 5 times in a year, and NEVER had a police officer attend to any of them, it does kind of pi$$ you off to see that they are all hiding in the bushes 3 miles down the road leading to a rarther large mushroom base here in Lincs.
You've lost it mate, sorry, but that's it.

Anyway, didn't get to go flying this afternoon - X winds OOL and getting worse!

TSM

[knowitall]

"There is almost always 2 police-manned speed traps that I know of here in Lincolshire. I have no doubt it's the same in Wilts and in the Midlands. Just tell us how you justify that?"


58 dead people on the county's roads this year and one of the worst road accident death rates in western europe not enough for you?

[ShyTorque]

Quote: "I have just one question therefore;
If you are so undermanned, to the extent that you (the police) are constantly bleating on about (and I do still believe you!) how can you justify to me and every other member of the public 'wasting' so many of these valuable officers' time spent nicking speeding motorists ALL THE BLOODY TIME?"
This is the nub of the matter.
I see myself as a generally law abiding, fully paid up tax paying citizen, somwhere in middle England. 18 yrs mil. service, some of it in harms way, resulting in PTS Disorder (no claim made but problems still recurring) followed by a few years flying for the police. Offered direct employment for all of that time then they gave my contract away to someone else and I was out of a job.
The "police contribution" of my council tax went up 26% shortly afterwards. Why? To fund the police pension (documented), which was suddenly massively in debt. My own pension was also massively in debt and yes thanks, you put me out of a job.
New job, more pressure. Two speeding tickets, both of which obtained trying to keep my new job, much greater travelling distance. Two household break-ins resulting in non-attendance and "sorry you have been the victim of a crime, and SO sorry we couldn't attend, here is your crime number for your insurance company" letters.
A son, beaten up on the street 150 metres from home for no reason. Police refused to attend. We attended and caught the offender, after a second 999 call they "prioritised" and still chose not to attend. Son facially scarred and traumatised, probably for life. In desperation, unfairly (?) used previous police personal contacts and threatened written complaint, they attended next day, but evidential trail not correctly followed due to time constraints. Not informed of court dates. Our evidence disallowed. Offender let off with a minor fine, a day's pay. Leaving court the offender scoffed and said "It was worth it, I'll do it again".
Don't give me excuses.

[RileyDove]

Knowitall - It's worth pointing out that there is a large amount of money spent on accident prevention in Lincolnshire. Included within that is van based speed camera's . The indications that despite all this that the accident rate increases - speed camera's are not making a significant impact on road safety in the county. You could also examine the statistics in that Lincolnshire has a large amount of unlit country roads which by their very nature are more dangerous than A road or motorway travel. Add to that a large migrant population which often travels to work in the early hours or late at night and it's very likely that a single vehicle accident can have major casualties.

[wg13_dummy]

Originally Posted by knowitall

58 dead people on the county's roads this year and one of the worst road accident death rates in western europe not enough for you?

And speed traps would have saved their lives?

If so, any proof?

Bad driving kills, not 7 mph over the limit.

[gar170]

Originally Posted by knowitall

"There is almost always 2 police-manned speed traps that I know of here in Lincolshire. I have no doubt it's the same in Wilts and in the Midlands. Just tell us how you justify that?"


58 dead people on the county's roads this year and one of the worst road accident death rates in western Europe not enough for you?

And how many vehicles are there on the roads
1 death is to many but this government is fond of statistic in % wise so how come you never hear deaths in %s.

I think you will find it pretty low and more people die with smoking related disease than on the roads but they haven't brought out a ban on it have they?.

[wg13_dummy]

Lincolnshire has a population a little under a million (only half of them can write their own name though). 58 aint many to be honest. In fact, it's a pretty good number considering the amount of chavved out Escorts and Astras the county has.

[Maple 01]

My Police Hq is bursting at the seams with highly paid civilian 'advisors' and analyst(s). They all come up with new magic formulae every week.

Oops, that will be me then! (apart from the highly paid bit)

In my experience the ‘magic formulae’ usually comes down from central government or Chief Inspectors and above who are trying to make a name for themselves (usually "n0b" according to the PCs). So we'll have periodic blitzes on street drinking/homelessness/begging/drugs/insert pet project here, all well and good, but when the Senior Officer who has been unlucky enough to be sidelined into traffic, is feeling a bit passed over, and wants some recognition/publicity guess what happens?

As an analyst I can say without fear of a kicking from "my" force that they are understaffed and have to work to ‘performance indicators’ – some people would call them targets, some might know them as quotas though they are not actually described as such for obvious reasions.

Most of the skuffers I work alongside have little taste for annoying Joe Public with nif-naf and trivia, they have far too many pikies, thugs and druggies to contend with (and you can bet I won't be using those phrases during my next presentation) when they do many appreciate just how pointless it is in the grand scheme of things but nice safe targets always look better in the figures than another ASBO for a bu@@ered up underclass - trust me on this, but where is the real problem?

Let's assume for a moment that the drink driving lobby have been calmed by my hypothetical chart that shows C2+s (RAF Cpl is a C2) aren’t really the social group that do much DD, it's the errr..... less fortunate Ds and Es. That being the case (and it is) why prowl outside RAF camps? Targeting resources, that's the name of the game, go after the pikies- you'll get the bonus of no MOT/tax/insurance clear-ups too!

Edited to add 58 out of a population of 646,645 (2001 census) is about 0.009% unless the mulled wine has got to me

[Tigs2]

mic
I learnt a lot about policing the other night. During the festive season i was invited to a party. It just so happened to be a house full of coppers. I thought i would forget that and enjoy the evening. The coppers (and i)proceeded to get very pi**ed. I asked to borrow the phone later (no mobile signal) to get a taxi. One of the (very) pi**ed coppers said' Don't worry mate there are loads of us can give you a lift. When i said 'no thanks' and added, 'surely your not driving' he said 'no probs mate, everyone in this county is ours!, now if we were going over the county border its not worth the risk, cause those bas****s over there go out of their way to catch one of us'!! He added, 'but over this side - No-probs (tapping the side of his nose)'!! He offered a lift again, i declined and left. Approximately 8 coppers drove home. I would have put everyone at the party(Pi**-Up), at a level of drunkardness to be three times over the limit - at least.

I learnt a lot about policing that night. Infact it reminded me of what all the RAFP used to get up to on base at Laarbruch back in 82. Yep, i've learnt a lot about policing.mmm!

[Exrigger]

Lincolnshire Road Safety Partnership e-mail exchange:
Me: Can you put in temporary speed cameras in our village to stop the speeders, oh and those red light jumper cameras.
Them: why.
Me: Because a lot of people speed through the village and jump red lights.
Them: We only spend money on speed cameras when there has been 5 or more speed related deaths along a given stretch of road.
Me: Why are the cameras on the A15 and A17 were they are as there has been no speed related deaths at all since speed cameras were introduced were they are sighted. I also pointed out, by their own rules were the speed cameras should of been mounted.
Them: No answer.


The problem with Lincolnshires roads are the idiots (a lot are youngsters), the tractors and as said before the unlit roads. Most accidents around here are not caused by speeding but by driving without due care and attention or impatience.

[Lucy Lastic]

Just on a slightly different point, our local constabulary has proudly announced that it has nailed 140 drunk drivers over the Christmas period. This equates to around 12% of those stopped.

Given that (in theory) they need to have a reason for stopping someone, this would appear to mean that around 88% of accidents/incidents are caused by sober drivers........

[mlc]

Tigs, if you know of Police Officers drink driving, then report them with my blessing. I would.

Two from my Division have just been prosecuted and sacked for the same offence and good riddance.

Swinger, I'm assuming you now accept I'm a Police Officer, if so I accept your apology!

I have spent nine of my twelve years attending and investigating fatal RTCs. As per my previous reply, there's is a lot of anger amongst rank and file Officers about the misuse of speed cameras, because it provokes the kind of response seen on this forum. Cameras were placed in my town, with no consultation with my unit. They were placed in positions which would generate revenue,no argument there. I could, if asked, have pointed out where they would be a useful tool.

The local 'Safety Camera Partnership' has no connection with us. It's staffed by civilians and has no contact with Police Officers. I give no apology for dealing with someone I see driving dangerously or using a phone. In the last nine months, my shift have given precisely zero,nil,nada tickets for speeding. We're too busy dealing with all the response jobs that we're accused of not attending because we're pissed!!

This is my last word on the matter. Continue enjoying the debate, I'm off to read a more interesting thread.

[RobinXe]

Originally Posted by knowitall

"There is almost always 2 police-manned speed traps that I know of here in Lincolshire. I have no doubt it's the same in Wilts and in the Midlands. Just tell us how you justify that?"
58 dead people on the county's roads this year and one of the worst road accident death rates in western europe not enough for you?

What an apt nickname!!
"Dead people on roads!? Oh noes!! Speed cameras will save them!!"
This is the kind of boll ocks that's being peddled by the government and swallowed by the masses. Speed cameras do not catch drunk drivers, phoner drivers, unregistered/untaxed/uninsured vehicles, inattentive drivers, dangerous drivers, unlicenced drivers, stolen cars, unroadworthy cars, the list goes on. Exceeding the speed limit is not inherently dangerous, any more than obeying it is inherently safe! Excessive speed is dangerous, but an appropriate speed is set by road/weather/traffic conditions, not a red disc at the roadside.
We had one of the better road safety records in Europe, and it was improving at a good rate before the introduction of speed cameras. The improvement has since slowed. Whats the explanation for that?
If you are interested in looking beyond the lies the government are peddling on road safety issues, and educating yourself on ways to make the roads safer that work, and do not criminalise otherwise law-abiding citizens, check out http://www.safespeed.org.uk

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

Originally Posted by mlc

The local 'Safety Camera Partnership' has no connection with us. It's staffed by civilians and has no contact with Police Officers.

That is reassuring as the Military have enough problem at the moment.

[niknak]

This sort of thread usually gets me going because having had a relative killed and another seriously injured by speeding and drunken drivers, I know at first hand the pain it involves.

That said, if all speed camera's were withdrawn tommorrow and we relied on the common sense of everyone on the road, I wonder how we'd get on?
For the majority of the time I think we'd do OK, but we can never account for the actions of a few.

Rather than speed cameras, I'd be in total favour of mandatory life (life means life) sentances for those who kill another as a result of speeding, drinking or by drug abuse. As part of this, drinking should mean ANY alcohol at all as would ANY trace of drugs - no matter how small in either case, speeding would mean the proof that the vehicle involved was travelling at more than 1mph above the speed limit.
Although I am by no means perfect, if we all had to consider the above ,its not difficult to see that all are completely avoidable by consideration for others and we'd pay more attention to our driving skills.

[The Swinging Monkey]

I know you're not going to reply to me, but I know you won't be able to stop yourself reading this thread!

I'm certain that you will have seen from the many postings on this thread that you are pretty much out on a limb here. You are part of a team that has frankly lost its way in life, and the standards, morales and ethos that you had years ago (as an organisation) have been replaced with ones that are weak, pathetic and appalling in many respects. That said, you are to be commended for at least trying to defend it, and I wouldn't expect anything less, but lets face it, things are in a sorry state with our police forces around the country aren't they? Indeed, in the midlands we have drunk-driving police officers, speeding police officers, and there's only 4 of them in 500 square miles - holy sh1t man, what a record!!!

As for your comment on speed cameras 'They were placed in positions which would generate revenue,no argument there' I only hope that someone has the balls to take up your claim with the local MP for that area, because that is disgracful. Claims like that, from a police officer only go to prove what has already been said on this forum and what you have vehemently tried to defend Sir. Shame on you and your fellow officers for not speaking up and doing something about it.

I am really dissapointed however, that you didn't answer my fundamental question concerning the availability of police officers for motorist persecution but little else. I suppose your failure to answer or even respond speaks volumes and confirms to me (and probably countless others) that you CANNOT defend the argument, and you find it easier to retire and 'read a more interesting thread'

Oh dear, how very sad this all is. It just about sums up our police force doesn't it?.... 'sorry everyone, too difficult for me to sort out, so I'm off to read another thread' well done mlc.

knowitall.
Please don't insult the intelligence of those of us here from Lincs. If you knew anything about Lincs at all, then you would know that it is the biggest county in the the country, and without doubt has the worst roads and road system in the UK, be it road size, surface quality, layout whatever. To suggest that speed cameras 'save lives' is nothing short of stupidity. Indeed there is considerable evidence around to suggest that speed cameras actually cause many accidents, because motorists immediately brake sharply when they see one, and others spend too much time looking out for them instead of concentrating on their driving. I have seen a lot of road deaths in Lincs, very few I would suggest are caused by speed.

Night night everyone, especially mlc. Thanks for the invite, but I sha'nt be coming to the midlands - its full of pi$$ed up policemen, driving speed camera vans!! Tooooooo risky!

Regards to all
TSM

[splitbrain]

Originally Posted by The Swinging Monkey

I have seen a lot of road deaths in Lincs, very few I would suggest are caused by speed.

Agreed, not by speed per-se, however, crashes aren't caused by speed cameras either. Any innaproppriate actions that arise when a driver spots a camera are the fault of the driver alone, although I realise that in a society where people are increasingly unwilling to accept responsibility for their own actions it is easier to lay the blame at the door of an inanimate object.

[RobinXe]

...but if they don't make the roads safer, and they cause some people to have inappropriate reactions (whomever is to blame), surely they should go!