Latest FRI rumour
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Lincs
Posts: 154
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Come on PMA, use your heads and realise that all this rumour is not helping. Get on DefenceNet and tell us what is happening, even if it is that nothing will be formally announced until the next AFPRB Report.
As for me, pound to a pinch of the proverbial, I will miss out again! I'm lucky like that you see, it would only confuse me into starting to think that maybe I'll stay in!
As for me, pound to a pinch of the proverbial, I will miss out again! I'm lucky like that you see, it would only confuse me into starting to think that maybe I'll stay in!
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: England
Posts: 76
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Money..... Grab......Money
How about share the wealth......its about time a certain kin of folk realised that without the engineer on the ground, the pretentious don't get elevated!!
Its not just the chaps who sit in row one of the people / cargo / weapons taxi's. Others area's of the service are haemorrhaging too.
Any first aider will tell you, you have to stop all the bleeding or the casualty becomes fatal.
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 806
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This whole FRI isssue makes me laugh. There are those that want the money to stay, but wouldn't leave anyway if they didn't get it !! Those to whom money is important tend to get the quals needed (Eng licenses or ATPL's) and leave. The rest whinge hoping for the money so that they get a little kick back for staying around anyway !! (This applies to all trades IMO)
Now, Tonkaplum, me old....
Think your getting a tad confused there chap regarding FRI's and misdirecting your anger at Oggin ...........
It's PMA that decides who gets them, the pilots only choose whether to take them or not.
Or maybe you are talking about a far deeper, personal level of sharing the wealth in which the pilot goes onto the line and hands out all the rentention money to keep the lineys from PVRing ?
Just like I'm sure the lineys would do in the crew room ?
You boys have quals that put you on a nice little earner outside. If it's money you want, vote with your feet.
Now, Tonkaplum, me old....
Think your getting a tad confused there chap regarding FRI's and misdirecting your anger at Oggin ...........
It's PMA that decides who gets them, the pilots only choose whether to take them or not.
Or maybe you are talking about a far deeper, personal level of sharing the wealth in which the pilot goes onto the line and hands out all the rentention money to keep the lineys from PVRing ?
Just like I'm sure the lineys would do in the crew room ?
You boys have quals that put you on a nice little earner outside. If it's money you want, vote with your feet.
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: England
Posts: 76
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Confused.......
Confused? Not at all, although point noted about PMA deciding.
Besides, he got my back up with the comment about wanting 6 figure sums... Who is worth that? Really....Who ?
I fully realise that anyone can vote with their feet but some of us actually like what we do and who we work for, just don't feel we are remunerated equivocally.
We are asked to do more, be more Joint; (which is another term for doing what the Army should be doing mainly. When did you last see an Infantry soldier working on Tornado?)
And what do we get for doing more, quicker with less? We get to see Aircrew whinge that they want 100k BONUS to stay (some of whom would be staying anyway but will of course claim). GREAT!!
Oh yeah... they have given us something........... Higher pass standards for the Fitness Test as of Apr 07.
Cheers....Merry Xmas
Besides, he got my back up with the comment about wanting 6 figure sums... Who is worth that? Really....Who ?
I fully realise that anyone can vote with their feet but some of us actually like what we do and who we work for, just don't feel we are remunerated equivocally.
We are asked to do more, be more Joint; (which is another term for doing what the Army should be doing mainly. When did you last see an Infantry soldier working on Tornado?)
And what do we get for doing more, quicker with less? We get to see Aircrew whinge that they want 100k BONUS to stay (some of whom would be staying anyway but will of course claim). GREAT!!
Oh yeah... they have given us something........... Higher pass standards for the Fitness Test as of Apr 07.
Cheers....Merry Xmas
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 806
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I get where your coming from.
But in a purely financial sense, the 100k will become 60k which, depending on the commitment, would not match the bigger salary he'd get with a major airline, certainly when you take into account the seniority leaving now would give and time to command.
That's what he's saying. It all too easy to get wound up listening to others talk about their worth (never get involved with stockbrokers talking about christmas bonuses, that'll really wind you up !!!)
But in a purely financial sense, the 100k will become 60k which, depending on the commitment, would not match the bigger salary he'd get with a major airline, certainly when you take into account the seniority leaving now would give and time to command.
That's what he's saying. It all too easy to get wound up listening to others talk about their worth (never get involved with stockbrokers talking about christmas bonuses, that'll really wind you up !!!)
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Red Red Back to Bed
Posts: 541
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
formertonkaplum
You really are quite rude.
If they are haemorrhaging so much then surely they would be offered incentives to stay - it has happened to other trades in the RN (Submariners, Marine engineers etc), so ask yourself why not in the RAF? Don't vent your spleen at me - if I am thinking of leaving, a bit of dosh to stay in is money well spent to them - it would save them millions in retraining someone else.
Simple fact is it costs a shed load to train aircrew, unlike costing a shed load to train other branches.
Oggin
Its not just the chaps who sit in row one of the people / cargo / weapons taxi's. Others area's of the service are haemorrhaging too.
Simple fact is it costs a shed load to train aircrew, unlike costing a shed load to train other branches.
Oggin
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: England
Posts: 76
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Oggin
But the money for those branches is equally important.....
Without branches, there is no tree.
Trenchard 1918
Without armament there is no Air Force,
Without an Air Force, we perish.
Food for thought.
Without branches, there is no tree.
Trenchard 1918
Without armament there is no Air Force,
Without an Air Force, we perish.
Food for thought.
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 158
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I didn't think this £100k FRI was aimed at the RAF or the RN fraternity. I am informed it is in the scoping stages for Army AH pilots who are coming to the end of their time bar, and because of further Op commitments are going to be 3 on, 3 off for a couple of years. I don't wish to make you feel as if you are worth any less but lets be honest, its basic supply and demand stuff! By the way I am not an AH driver and the £100k (£60 after tax) still might not be enough for another 5 years return of service. Maybe an AH driver might like to comment.
Join Date: May 2000
Location: uk(occasionally)
Posts: 130
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Supply and demand it is.
formertonka, the fact of the matter is that this is all accountant driven. Aircrew dont get retention incentives because they think they are gods gift, but because so many are leaving and it costs millions (tens of millions for the more experienced/qualified) to replace. Not to mention at least 5-10 years to train. You are completely correct that most that take it would stay anyway but at 60k a go, the treasury can easily afford to pay 20 if it keeps one. Unfortunately for the treasury all aircrew know that at the moment they can get a job that will, in the long term, be far more financially lucrative than 60k over 5 years and offer far more quality of life.
Likewise you are absolutely correct that if the RAF (or any other company) is short in other areas then retention initiatives should be applied there, but I think that the current perception at PMA is that in most areas we are doing redundancies, not retention. Of course after the redundancies / PVRs have settled down, we may find that PMA have misjudged things (is that possible?) I am a fan of targetted payments - I dont believe that because we are short of, say, multi pilots then all RAF aircrew should get the cash. So if its AAC AH guys who get a big payment and RAF FJ guys get nothing, then fine so be it.
Anyway, keep smiling, even when the s**t is up to your nose!
formertonka, the fact of the matter is that this is all accountant driven. Aircrew dont get retention incentives because they think they are gods gift, but because so many are leaving and it costs millions (tens of millions for the more experienced/qualified) to replace. Not to mention at least 5-10 years to train. You are completely correct that most that take it would stay anyway but at 60k a go, the treasury can easily afford to pay 20 if it keeps one. Unfortunately for the treasury all aircrew know that at the moment they can get a job that will, in the long term, be far more financially lucrative than 60k over 5 years and offer far more quality of life.
Likewise you are absolutely correct that if the RAF (or any other company) is short in other areas then retention initiatives should be applied there, but I think that the current perception at PMA is that in most areas we are doing redundancies, not retention. Of course after the redundancies / PVRs have settled down, we may find that PMA have misjudged things (is that possible?) I am a fan of targetted payments - I dont believe that because we are short of, say, multi pilots then all RAF aircrew should get the cash. So if its AAC AH guys who get a big payment and RAF FJ guys get nothing, then fine so be it.
Anyway, keep smiling, even when the s**t is up to your nose!
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 769
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
FRI v Payrise
Time to say: 'Thank you, Mr Atkins'
Forget FRIs - it's too late for such cheapskate and divisive options. It's time for a real payrise - I think only that will save the Armed Forces now!
Forget FRIs - it's too late for such cheapskate and divisive options. It's time for a real payrise - I think only that will save the Armed Forces now!
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: west midlands
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You are so right but then I havn't seen any Tornado techs driving AH but plenty of Infantry soldiers are all over it...
p.s If you hadn't done so well at school you wouldn't be fixin 'em and get yourself down the gym as April isn't far away!!!!
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: deepest here
Posts: 42
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Oggin,
The rumours of 6 figure FRI's is doing the rounds in the RAF at the moment, but they are just that (at the moment) - rumours. Smart money is on the sum going to CS Sqn Ldrs for a return of service post IPP (5 yrs?). Interestingly, I have yet to speak to a single CS Sqn Ldr (I've asked quite a few) who would change a decision to leave if they got 100K (taxed or otherwise) - it's not enough, to compensate for 5 yrs of the children growing up whilst Dad's away (or mum!)/ 5 yrs less seniority at an airline/not to mention jobhunting at 44 - not easy. In addition, a continuation of the FRI2 is utterly pointless - 50K taxed is 30, over 5 yrs =6K per year. Hmm...if a Flt Lt left at his 38/16, his pension would be almost double that, so the RAF are saving money on anyone who accepts the FRI - only giving you half what they would have to if you left. Clever.
What would retain a Flt Lt at IPP?
Less time away, Serviceable (NEW!!!) aircraft, GET RID OF JPA, Stop using Civvy Bull*hit terminology, Get rid of the current bunch of spineless cowards we call senior officers, and pay us what we are worth (7 tours, 6000hrs - about 85K per annum, and NO, I'm not kidding.
For what it's worth.
The rumours of 6 figure FRI's is doing the rounds in the RAF at the moment, but they are just that (at the moment) - rumours. Smart money is on the sum going to CS Sqn Ldrs for a return of service post IPP (5 yrs?). Interestingly, I have yet to speak to a single CS Sqn Ldr (I've asked quite a few) who would change a decision to leave if they got 100K (taxed or otherwise) - it's not enough, to compensate for 5 yrs of the children growing up whilst Dad's away (or mum!)/ 5 yrs less seniority at an airline/not to mention jobhunting at 44 - not easy. In addition, a continuation of the FRI2 is utterly pointless - 50K taxed is 30, over 5 yrs =6K per year. Hmm...if a Flt Lt left at his 38/16, his pension would be almost double that, so the RAF are saving money on anyone who accepts the FRI - only giving you half what they would have to if you left. Clever.
What would retain a Flt Lt at IPP?
Less time away, Serviceable (NEW!!!) aircraft, GET RID OF JPA, Stop using Civvy Bull*hit terminology, Get rid of the current bunch of spineless cowards we call senior officers, and pay us what we are worth (7 tours, 6000hrs - about 85K per annum, and NO, I'm not kidding.
For what it's worth.
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Red Red Back to Bed
Posts: 541
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks for the info e e.
If they dont retain CS Stream S/L's they will be in a lot of trouble a few years down the line? Who will be CAS - non winged officer? Think not. However your argument that the figures quoted are not enough to retain someone at realistically the last chance of getting a decent job (and future) in the airlines make sense. I will await any announcement with interest.
Oggin
If they dont retain CS Stream S/L's they will be in a lot of trouble a few years down the line? Who will be CAS - non winged officer? Think not. However your argument that the figures quoted are not enough to retain someone at realistically the last chance of getting a decent job (and future) in the airlines make sense. I will await any announcement with interest.
Oggin
Champagne anyone...?
Oh whoops....
I just asked for a bit more fun flying to get me to sign on. Should've held out for the cash. Ho hum, guess I'm stuck with it then.
Silly me.
Still, there's nothing to spend it on in Kandahar anyway so why bother
PS. it'll be 100k pre-tax, CS Sqn Ldrs, 5 year bond.
I just asked for a bit more fun flying to get me to sign on. Should've held out for the cash. Ho hum, guess I'm stuck with it then.
Silly me.
Still, there's nothing to spend it on in Kandahar anyway so why bother
PS. it'll be 100k pre-tax, CS Sqn Ldrs, 5 year bond.
Champagne anyone...?
Thats the fun of it all: I can't, but neither can they
If no one accepts it then I'm going to ask if they can divvy it up between those of us signing up to PA. Think there's about 4 of us so I should get at least a couple of Aston Martins out of it.
Sweet
If no one accepts it then I'm going to ask if they can divvy it up between those of us signing up to PA. Think there's about 4 of us so I should get at least a couple of Aston Martins out of it.
Sweet
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Sunny East Sussex
Age: 49
Posts: 264
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I wouldn't have stayed in for 60 K.
Having left earlier this year, for a 14 K a year pay rise, that makes break even pretty quick.
It ain't all about the money.
p.s when is the GE's bash?
Having left earlier this year, for a 14 K a year pay rise, that makes break even pretty quick.
It ain't all about the money.
p.s when is the GE's bash?
Champagne anyone...?
Sorry but they asked that traitorous splitters like your good self not be invited. Rules is rules I'm afraid.
Unless you bring lots of top drawer airline blart. Actually, it's the GEs bash. Bring their mums instead.
Unless you bring lots of top drawer airline blart. Actually, it's the GEs bash. Bring their mums instead.
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Ask OPS!
Posts: 1,078
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Oggin, are you sure they'll take you in Oz, won't you scare the locals 
Say hi to the baggers for me
To all........ leave. There are jobs abound at the moment, it is more dull but the pay starts where the mil stops and keeps going up. I get served coffee and tea, given lunch and have a solid, stable roster. I have also stayed in more nice 5 star hotels in the past 12 months then I ever saw from the outside in the mob!!!!
I thought about Queen and country and after 18 years front line service in the FAA they took my flying pay off me for the last four months and sent me a personally signed letter from some desk knob thanking me for my 18 years in the marines
go figure.
The accountants and politicians don't care about you, you're all numbers to them and they don't really care about who or what you are but where in the c$%p world they can send you all and what they can get out of you.
A classic one was the governments 'economy' drive where a tefal headed labour politician claimed sucess of 'cost saving' by achieving the same tasking with less submarines. Didn't get drawn on whether the crews were overstretched, just took the credit for needing one less sub to do the same tasking????
FRI's are and will always be a short term measure enabling them to keep their claws in the experienced pool of manpower and enabling them to post/transfer you anywhere stating 'well... you took the FRI'.
Have fun, the grass really is greener over the fence. Those who moan about civvie flying are generally the ones who have never had to put up with the c**p the militray powers that be put out.
Say hi to the baggers for me To all........ leave. There are jobs abound at the moment, it is more dull but the pay starts where the mil stops and keeps going up. I get served coffee and tea, given lunch and have a solid, stable roster. I have also stayed in more nice 5 star hotels in the past 12 months then I ever saw from the outside in the mob!!!!
I thought about Queen and country and after 18 years front line service in the FAA they took my flying pay off me for the last four months and sent me a personally signed letter from some desk knob thanking me for my 18 years in the marines
go figure.The accountants and politicians don't care about you, you're all numbers to them and they don't really care about who or what you are but where in the c$%p world they can send you all and what they can get out of you.
A classic one was the governments 'economy' drive where a tefal headed labour politician claimed sucess of 'cost saving' by achieving the same tasking with less submarines. Didn't get drawn on whether the crews were overstretched, just took the credit for needing one less sub to do the same tasking????
FRI's are and will always be a short term measure enabling them to keep their claws in the experienced pool of manpower and enabling them to post/transfer you anywhere stating 'well... you took the FRI'.
Have fun, the grass really is greener over the fence. Those who moan about civvie flying are generally the ones who have never had to put up with the c**p the militray powers that be put out.