why is everyone flightcrew leaving the military?
Contrary to the earlier posts - I believe this sits VERY well with the "RAF Meltdown" thread.
The only difference is 'who' we are talking about, as this seems to be aircrew rather than groundcrew.
All the same reasons are given there too.
The only difference is 'who' we are talking about, as this seems to be aircrew rather than groundcrew.
All the same reasons are given there too.
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I have spent some time reading the various threads on PPRuNe and have to say I am in total agreement with the previous comments WRT the state of the RAF. I am also close to the black and yellow option, being one who joined as a lowley mech many years ago having now done 1-3rd line tours as well as Stn, industry and DLO type tours, the current one presently being a JEngO tour. Not only has the Air Force reached the point where the consitent errosion has destroyed what little ethos and pride many of us had in the RAF but the fact that none of the Airships (gawd bless em!) have made any effort that can be shouted about to stop, slow down or even reverse the current state of affairs. As with many I am bitter, but bitter that the clowns who control the Military don't seem to realise that the fact that the entire forces are not only overstretched, underfunded, underequipped with morale so low that if it baled out from a snakes a**e it would still be able to get full deployment before impact. More importantly it is not just sites and forums such as PPRuNe that are shouting about it but that everyone knows it and they (the luvies at No 10) and the Seniors of the Services, with the exception of Gen Dannett seem to want to do nothing about it, and our Airships are the worst of the lot!!
I (as do many others) spend most of my time fighting to justify why the gapped posts I have NEED to be filled by PMA, why with only half manpower we can't keep all the ac serviceable as the stupendous lean and E2E studies have removed what we need to do just that. I could rant on and on and on about how the contractorisation of our 2nd and 3rd line is not working but in actual fact I don't give a flying toss about Fwd and Depth or stats or E2E or lean or customers or business processes or SOR or URDs any of the other poxy and irritating issuses that have been forced upon us. All which get in the way of all of us being able to do what we need to and want to do. We are in the Air Force, the aim of which is to genrate and project military power around the globe to protect our interests at home and overseas and to act as a force for good (hell I did remejber somthing from Cranners). But if Mr Blair/Brown continue in the current direction there will not be an Air Force in a couple of years.
I have spent a lot of years working with some of the best people in the world, and made some lasting freindships to boot, but the time has come where my family need a daddy at home to see them grow up. I also understand as do we all that the powers that be are more interested in costs and money than ability and capability and have for a long time failed to acknowledge that they need to SUPPORT the forces, not just make mouth music. It saddens me so much that the reason I will be leaving the RAF is that I no longer have any trust or faith in those who are in control.
All I can say is good luck to those who choose to remain, you have my thanks, appreciation and understanding.
I (as do many others) spend most of my time fighting to justify why the gapped posts I have NEED to be filled by PMA, why with only half manpower we can't keep all the ac serviceable as the stupendous lean and E2E studies have removed what we need to do just that. I could rant on and on and on about how the contractorisation of our 2nd and 3rd line is not working but in actual fact I don't give a flying toss about Fwd and Depth or stats or E2E or lean or customers or business processes or SOR or URDs any of the other poxy and irritating issuses that have been forced upon us. All which get in the way of all of us being able to do what we need to and want to do. We are in the Air Force, the aim of which is to genrate and project military power around the globe to protect our interests at home and overseas and to act as a force for good (hell I did remejber somthing from Cranners). But if Mr Blair/Brown continue in the current direction there will not be an Air Force in a couple of years.
I have spent a lot of years working with some of the best people in the world, and made some lasting freindships to boot, but the time has come where my family need a daddy at home to see them grow up. I also understand as do we all that the powers that be are more interested in costs and money than ability and capability and have for a long time failed to acknowledge that they need to SUPPORT the forces, not just make mouth music. It saddens me so much that the reason I will be leaving the RAF is that I no longer have any trust or faith in those who are in control.
All I can say is good luck to those who choose to remain, you have my thanks, appreciation and understanding.
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Spanner excellent post, I also joined up as a lowly AmechP (remember them?) but left at the 13 year(1989) point even then it was fairly obvious the way things were going even though I was on for 22 I just could not see me staying till then so jumped ship, to be honest I have never regreted it and in fact sometimes wished I had left earlier and got licensed and typed much sooner. Good luck in your future career whether it is in the airlines (very much needed in this day and age) or something else.
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what I(d) really like...
What I really like is leaving home at 0700, spending most of the day flying and teaching the student(the good bit) and then thinking at about 1730, its just about time to go home....
Oh, but then I'm asked whether I've completed the ''little jobs'' and secondary duties....
Oh, but then I'm asked whether I've completed the ''little jobs'' and secondary duties....
What I really - really like then, is using the time constructivley to catch up with the little admin things in life which form such an important part of our support infrastructure.
No problem, delayed flight - good excuse for a spot of 'fat boys breakfast' in the mess
- but due to staff shortages it's centralised messing in the airmans mess this week and late breakfasts are out!
Ok, nip up to SHQ and renew the wife's railcard at last - except it's Wednesday - due to staff shortages - they don't do Wednesdays.
Clothing stores then? - new shirts - "Nah, we've been waiting for that size for weeks"
- How about replacing these trousers? - "No problem Sir, Tailors Parade Tuesdays 1000-1200 - but she's on holiday for 3 weeks"
hmmm.... Ah - SCAF (inventories) - just up stairs - "Sorry Sir, Cpl Stacker went OOA last week, I've just taken over his desk as well as my own, and I know nothing about your inventory"
A spot of admin? - except the computer system has dumped all my details and doesn't know who I am - and the one in house specialist computer bod is on CCS det prep - all week!
Oh bug*er, can't check my e-mails, work on those overdue reports, or those lesson preps. Can't check the tea bar accounts or the duty rosters for the Xmas period. Double bug*er!
Oh well - chin up - how's the aircraft? - "Yep, we've got one serviceable, but it's shift change and the next shift will have to AF/BF it - should be ready by lunch time"
(quick mental calc - hour and a half crew in - could be airborne by 1400 - if we're quick. - 6hr Op/CT. - land by 2000 - oops - quick call to the wife to rejig this evenings plans.)
Now what? - Annual medical - "Certainly Sir, - first available appointment March 27"
Dental centre - How soon could I get a hygenist appointment please? -
"We would give you one tomorrow Sir, - if we had a hygenist"
Gymnasium - "Sorry Sir, the showers are U/s"
Submit a leave application - except I can't get logged on to the JPA
Car Pass - "Sorry Sir, he's on his break, back in 15mins - staff shortages you know".
So I stand for 15mins and marvel at the volume of traffic going on and off the Station, and how those in uniform are all stopped for ID checks, but the white vans, artics and taxis are waved straight through - amazing. Somebody must be busy.
"Sorry Sir, the sticky back plastic machine is broken so I can't issue a permenant pass, but your temporary one is good for another 3 days"!
- I don't suppose I can..... -
"Nope, not when there's still 3 days on that one, you'll have to come back when that runs out"
- Could I maybe speak to OC Plods and..... -
"Nope, she's just gone OOA and the F/Sgt is on post det leave"
Ok, count to ten, shrug shoulders, bow politely and give in...
Check on aircraft again. Yippee, AF/BF is complete - Oh bug*er - the one 'qualified' driver on shift is busy with coach runs to the rifle range for the Regt Flight, then he's on lunch break so we won't get fuel 'till 1330 - "staff shortages you know"
Airborne by 1430 maybe? - you must be joking - there's a Take-off and Landing embargo between 1400 and 1600 because of the fire section shift manning problems, not helped by having 4 firemen on gate guard this week.
Airborne at 1600 then? - so that was in for 0430 to get airborne at 1600 for 6hrs and land at 2200,
- crew duty time, err.. just about legal,
- motivation, err.. just about intact,
- morale, err... fragile,
- playmates, err... none existant,
- training value, err...zero,
but the Flight deck crew need the hours for currency, the rear crew have a standards check tomorrow in the sim and the Staish needs to show the hours flown this month so we better go.
2200 landing - "Sorry Sir, the Eng you borrowed from crew 2 is flying as Ops1 with crew 6 tomorrow at 0700 and needs some rest time before another early start."
- "Where's our Eng?" -
"You haven't got one!."
Oh bug*er.
Drop in by the Ops room on the way out and note; 'War flyable Aircraft Availability 98.5%'
and in the remarks column for todays sortie - 'Cancelled - Aircrew Scrub. - No Crew!' What I really, really - really like then, is to sit at home in the evening with a great sense of achievement and satisfaction after a productive days work, content in the knowledge that my days efforts are a highly valued contribution to the collective objective and proud of the fact that the huge logistics tail of this modern efficient fighting Air Farce is there to support me....
edited bit - I've just re-read all this - Even if you had an official Enquiry to answer to - You couldn't make all this up!
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blimey. now i see what everyone's getting out. it sounds like working for the local council, except you get to visit war-zones and get up earlier in the morning.
ah well, look on the bright side. at least you dont have £40,000 debt for your flight training costs....
ah well, look on the bright side. at least you dont have £40,000 debt for your flight training costs....
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Not that curious anymore. Got out, got a civvie job, and the grass IS much greener.
Spannermonkey,
What a cracking quote! I'm going to nick it and call it my own 
.
Spannermonkey,
I don't give a flying toss about Fwd and Depth or stats or E2E or lean or customers or business processes or SOR or URDs any of the other poxy and irritating issuses that have been forced upon us.
.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
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That's exactly it. The Airships "Hear" what is said. They also "Read" what is said.
They then think: "Ah well, I'm only in post 18 months, it won't affect me or my promotion. That's automatic!".
"F*ck it".
"And F*ck them all!"
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Having read Oilcan's resume of a bad day, I recall a Flight Safety video in the late 80s. It was about an FJ pilot (actor Richard O'Sullivan?) who had a bad morning in the mess, in supply, in pre-brief - everywhere. And it all led to the worst possible result, I think. Yet what happened in the video wasn't even a half of Oilcan's summary of the hassles of today .....
I think it was called "Distractions" and had the young Beckinsale as a Harrier mate with things on his mind. To be honest from my memories of Sqn life even in the late 80's there is far more to get wound up about now. The benefits of Service life have all but been eroded by those who have little or no knowledge of their value.
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I've just under 2 years to do on the Chinny fleet and my boss said to me the other day, "I don't think you'll leave in a couple of years." 
In walks ***** and states, "Boss, I've just worked that the average time we'll be spending in Afghanistan over the next three years is 5 1/2 months per year."
I looked at my boss, I didn't have to say a word...
Last one out, please turn all the lights off...
In walks ***** and states, "Boss, I've just worked that the average time we'll be spending in Afghanistan over the next three years is 5 1/2 months per year."
I looked at my boss, I didn't have to say a word...
Last one out, please turn all the lights off...
This thread has hit it's third page in just under 36 hours of the original post and everyone is singing from the same songsheet. Perhaps someone will take notice. (I jest!).
I left the RAF at a bad time (one month befor 9/11) and managed to be made redundant from my first airline job before I'd even officially left the RAF. I did hear one sentiment from the RAF to the effect that all their retention problems were over. But I didn't go back in and neither did most of my contempories. And now, I'm far better off.
My reasons for not assimilating were various and have all been covered here in depth. But this was 5 years ago and things seem far worse now.
As for BGS, the class was full of mil guys when I did the course. They offer the best product for a chap who has most of the info but needs to organise it in his head in a fashion which will get him/her through the hoops.
I left the RAF at a bad time (one month befor 9/11) and managed to be made redundant from my first airline job before I'd even officially left the RAF. I did hear one sentiment from the RAF to the effect that all their retention problems were over. But I didn't go back in and neither did most of my contempories. And now, I'm far better off.
My reasons for not assimilating were various and have all been covered here in depth. But this was 5 years ago and things seem far worse now.
As for BGS, the class was full of mil guys when I did the course. They offer the best product for a chap who has most of the info but needs to organise it in his head in a fashion which will get him/her through the hoops.