Helicopter Pilot Seating
Thread Starter
Helicopter Pilot Seating
Hi
Please excuse my EXTREME IGNORANCE but why is the Capt of a Mil or Civ Helicopter always seated on the RIGHT as opposed to the LH Seat in an aeroplane
.
Is it something to do with winching even though some HC's are not used for this or are not even fitted with the correct gear ???
Thanks in advance for any reply's
SPIT
Please excuse my EXTREME IGNORANCE but why is the Capt of a Mil or Civ Helicopter always seated on the RIGHT as opposed to the LH Seat in an aeroplane
.Is it something to do with winching even though some HC's are not used for this or are not even fitted with the correct gear ???
Thanks in advance for any reply's
SPIT
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The same reason that the driver of a car sits on the right and the same reason the driver of a horse and carriage sits on the right. It leaves your sword hand free to engage the enemy.
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Hovering AND talking
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The Hughes 269C has a left PIC seat - something to do with Hughes saying that only poofs and perverts sit on the right.
Having done both left and right hand seat, I'd say that right hand seat is easier in order to have access to the instruments/radio.
When sitting in the left seat and wanting to change radio fequency, I would have to hold the cyclic in my left hand which results in some very inelegant flying!
Cheers
Whirls
Having done both left and right hand seat, I'd say that right hand seat is easier in order to have access to the instruments/radio.
When sitting in the left seat and wanting to change radio fequency, I would have to hold the cyclic in my left hand which results in some very inelegant flying!
Cheers
Whirls
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In my experience, with the British Army Air Corps, the pilot sits on the right so that switches can be effected with the left hand thereby keeping control of the cyclic. If the aircraft has a crew of 2 then the Aircraft Commander sits on the left allowing the pilot to fly while he or she operates the aircraft sensors or navigation equipment. In the Apache, the Aircraft Commander normally sits in the front for the very same reason.
Hope this helps,
h
Hope this helps,
h
In my experience, with the British Army Air Corps, the pilot sits on the right so that switches can be effected with the left hand thereby keeping control of the cyclic. If the aircraft has a crew of 2 then the Aircraft Commander sits on the left allowing the pilot to fly while he or she operates the aircraft sensors or navigation equipment. In the Apache, the Aircraft Commander normally sits in the front for the very same reason.
Hope this helps,
h
Hope this helps,
h
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Chugalug2
Not a very enlightened view if I may be so bold?????
On further investigaton, you may discover a 2nd new thing today. MOST pilots and indeed Aircraft Commanders in the AAC are in fact SNCO's. They are not denied a career path as a pilot simply because they aren't graduate material who instead chose to join up straight into the ranks. You may even (gasp - horror!) discover a 3rd - that most QHI's within the Corps are these jolly competent NCO's types.
Spiffing these days isn't it, that they'll let the oiks do any old job..........
PS Commanders in an army helicopter sit in the left hand seat and the pilot in the right, but the cab can be flown from either
Not a very enlightened view if I may be so bold?????
On further investigaton, you may discover a 2nd new thing today. MOST pilots and indeed Aircraft Commanders in the AAC are in fact SNCO's. They are not denied a career path as a pilot simply because they aren't graduate material who instead chose to join up straight into the ranks. You may even (gasp - horror!) discover a 3rd - that most QHI's within the Corps are these jolly competent NCO's types.
Spiffing these days isn't it, that they'll let the oiks do any old job..........
PS Commanders in an army helicopter sit in the left hand seat and the pilot in the right, but the cab can be flown from either
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I have just been looking at early photos of Bell helicopters- the Model 30, which began flying in 1942 shows the TP Floyd Carlson in both the left and right position during early flights, but by 1945 the Model 47 (Sioux) which was the earliest civil certificated helicopter, is almost exclusively piloted from the RH seat as were later models. I suspect it became a case of 'this is the way its always been'.
This tradition is probably more important for landing on ships, which I believe is now always done from the port side of the boat, but no doubt I shall be corrected.
In the same vein, why is the PIC of a fixed wing aircraft always in the left handseat?
This tradition is probably more important for landing on ships, which I believe is now always done from the port side of the boat, but no doubt I shall be corrected.
In the same vein, why is the PIC of a fixed wing aircraft always in the left handseat?
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Test pilot
I heard it was because one of the first Test Pilots for Skiorsky (Lee Morris) in 1942-43 learned how a helicopter flew from the left. Then when he had to teach someone lese he didn't want to have to relearn how to fly from the right. So the students all learnt from the right and never knew any different. Later, it was safer and easier for a right hand seat instrucotr to train new people from the left due to higher experience levels.
All this is from the legend that is Ray Prouty.
All this is from the legend that is Ray Prouty.
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My understanding was that in early helos there was only one collective, and as cyclic was the more complex input, people sat where their right hand was on the cyclic and their left on the collective.
Mil products and derivative designs are the other way round in my limited experience (40 minutes in a PZL Sokol).
Sven
Mil products and derivative designs are the other way round in my limited experience (40 minutes in a PZL Sokol).
Sven
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Aircarft Carrier Operations
I understand it dates back to the early use of helicopters on aircraft carriers. Since an aircraft carrier's control tower is on the right of the ship and in general is sailing into wind when launching aircraft, the captain had to sit on the right in the helicopter when hovering to land. Unless he didn't mind blade strikes!
Last edited by JP1; 12th Nov 2006 at 20:55. Reason: sp
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Well you learn something new everyday! A chum of mine, a Hercules Captain, many many years ago, was out of his seat having a stretch, when one of his passengers, an army subaltern came up front to see the view. My friend was asked what he did, and explained that he was the Aircraft Captain. "Where do you sit?" asked his passenger, "Over there", he said indicating his vacant seat. "Isn't that where the pilot sits?", he was asked. " I am the pilot", he stated. "Good God man, don't you have a competent NCO to do that?", replied his astonished guest. We put all this down to the idea that a tank or jeep driver could be continuously ordered to turn left, go faster, slow down, stop etc., but now it has taken on a different dimension if the same orders can be effected in the air!
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Please Please Please, this is NOT an army bash, it is a genuine question....
For years on these very forums, the army have been having a go at the RAF for their officer only pilot system. We stated that historically, only officers could carry nukes in the RAF and this carried on into other flying jobs. Why are the army going down this path of officers or some 'very special' SNCOs being allowed to get near the AH weapon system?? Have you decided the RAF was right all along or is the idea a load of bull??
For years on these very forums, the army have been having a go at the RAF for their officer only pilot system. We stated that historically, only officers could carry nukes in the RAF and this carried on into other flying jobs. Why are the army going down this path of officers or some 'very special' SNCOs being allowed to get near the AH weapon system?? Have you decided the RAF was right all along or is the idea a load of bull??
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The Army has historically used SNCO pilots widely because it has needed a large number of highly competent Drivers Airframe. These drivers did not need to have a wide or deep knowledge of unit level tactics and procedures.
Though I have been out of the game for a long time, my understanding is that the AH opens another dimension and, when hunting in packs, often needs commanders with unit command training and experience. Hence the increase in the proportion of officers required in AH units. The AH can still be driven by a SNCO, in fact they will usually have more practical skill and experience of flying the aircraft than an officer who has other strings to his bow.
Though I have been out of the game for a long time, my understanding is that the AH opens another dimension and, when hunting in packs, often needs commanders with unit command training and experience. Hence the increase in the proportion of officers required in AH units. The AH can still be driven by a SNCO, in fact they will usually have more practical skill and experience of flying the aircraft than an officer who has other strings to his bow.
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Kitbag,
I am afraid you are incorrect about the Bell 47. The driver sat in the left hand seat. Incidentally, I learned on a Hiller Raven in which the driver sat in the middle with pedals either side of the instrument console!
I am afraid you are incorrect about the Bell 47. The driver sat in the left hand seat. Incidentally, I learned on a Hiller Raven in which the driver sat in the middle with pedals either side of the instrument console!
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CM
Sorry to disagree, but I do have a number of published photos which have the driver on the right, although as I said above not exclusively so. Remember this type was one of the earliest 'popular' helicopters, and was not operated only by the British Army. The point I was trying to put across was more of a convention developing through common practice rather tha a perceived need for the PIC to be in the LH or RH seat.
Sorry to disagree, but I do have a number of published photos which have the driver on the right, although as I said above not exclusively so. Remember this type was one of the earliest 'popular' helicopters, and was not operated only by the British Army. The point I was trying to put across was more of a convention developing through common practice rather tha a perceived need for the PIC to be in the LH or RH seat.
Last edited by Kitbag; 13th Nov 2006 at 08:01. Reason: Speelligg
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Kitbag
Early light hels with bench seats required the driver to sit on the left because of the need for space for the collective lever, operated by the left hand. The second collective on a Bell 47 was recessed in a slot in the centre of the seats, OK for a back-up or instructor station but not for the pilot.
With the introduction of individual seats with space in between for the collective, it made sense for the driver to sit on the right so he could control the aircraft with the cyclic in his right hand and tweak the knobs, hold his coffee etc with his left with the collective friction on.
I attach an extract from an early flight test report on the Sioux!
The Bell 47G3-B1, known to the British Army as the Sioux and to the irreverent as the Clockwork Mouse, is the first genuine see-through aircraft ever to enter military service. Used in the observation role, the Sioux's built-in transparency is a triumph of helicopter design.
The early production models were built by a well-known Italian motorcycle manu-facturer in 1964 and represented 17 tireless years of development since the prototype first flew in 1947. It replaced a more modern aircraft, the Squitter Mk 12.
The cockpit layout is conventional, except that it accommodates the crew seated three abreast and is left hand drive. The central passenger may be replaced by a dual collective lever if prolonged flight in manual control is contemplated.
Early light hels with bench seats required the driver to sit on the left because of the need for space for the collective lever, operated by the left hand. The second collective on a Bell 47 was recessed in a slot in the centre of the seats, OK for a back-up or instructor station but not for the pilot.
With the introduction of individual seats with space in between for the collective, it made sense for the driver to sit on the right so he could control the aircraft with the cyclic in his right hand and tweak the knobs, hold his coffee etc with his left with the collective friction on.
I attach an extract from an early flight test report on the Sioux!
The Bell 47G3-B1, known to the British Army as the Sioux and to the irreverent as the Clockwork Mouse, is the first genuine see-through aircraft ever to enter military service. Used in the observation role, the Sioux's built-in transparency is a triumph of helicopter design.
The early production models were built by a well-known Italian motorcycle manu-facturer in 1964 and represented 17 tireless years of development since the prototype first flew in 1947. It replaced a more modern aircraft, the Squitter Mk 12.
The cockpit layout is conventional, except that it accommodates the crew seated three abreast and is left hand drive. The central passenger may be replaced by a dual collective lever if prolonged flight in manual control is contemplated.