RAF Meltdown - Has it begun?
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LJR stand corrected, but the plain fact is there are many more engineers supporting fewer aircraft. These engineers will be better rested, better motivated, flight safety issues should be less prevalent and crucially, they are less likely to want to leave. The dearth in RAF engineers is also true of the Nimrod det. There is a feeling that those in higher rank just have to make it work in the short term til they move on to their next job doing something different. Ignoring the fact that an almost untenable situation is being reached.
Last edited by nigegilb; 12th Nov 2006 at 09:17.
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To keep a constant Service Strength, if Retention drops then Recruitment has to rise. The trouble is that it costs millions to train a military pilot. So I agree with you Yozzer, I think we're beyond the point at which an FRI would help; people need to be assured that they will have a competitive wage when they are in their 40s if they are to be persuaded to stay during their 30s. FRI's don't give that assurance. Neither does the PA spine; especially if you're good and have been promoted to sqn ldr.
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When asked where the groundcrew incentive was at the time of the aircrew deals, I believe an AOC replied:
"If I need more engineers, I'll just go and buy some..."
I'm not sure he grasped the fact that you can't just drive down the jobcentre and load them onto a bus, then send them to Iraq...
"If I need more engineers, I'll just go and buy some..."
I'm not sure he grasped the fact that you can't just drive down the jobcentre and load them onto a bus, then send them to Iraq...
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Engineers have never received the priority they deserve. If the FRI is exclusive to Sqn Ldr Pilots, (someone has to run the Air Force), it will be a mistake. Engineering is on its knees in some places, fewer people doing more and more only has one end result. Exit.
As has been said earlier this is merely sticking plaster stuff, but is necessary because dets are already down to skeleton manning.
As has been said earlier this is merely sticking plaster stuff, but is necessary because dets are already down to skeleton manning.
A humble observation.
The current system of pilot recruitment, training and retention is about 50 years out of date.
It is geared around finding a 21 yr old Officer pilot with excellent physical aptitude and above average intelligence. As if they are going to spend the next 25 years flying high-G dogfights in Spitfires or Hunters against the Luftwaffe or Russian Air Force.
They're not.
Most of them will never ever fly supersonically. Those that do will achieve little even if they are used in the Air Battle of 2012. What IS required are a cadre of highly specialised blokes or girls that understand all manner of battlefield tactics, crypto, comms, weapons, weapons, weapons, and yet display excellent CRM excellent emotional stability and excellent team skills.
They will require a small division of techies, many will be employed by Boeing/Airbus/Raytheon/BAE etc etc.
None will need 25 airbases covering 149 acres each with support staff and a dog with a man on a leash at the gate waiting for Harry to turn up to collect his final salary pension.
This is the truth of the Modern RAF.
Cheers
WWW
ps I've never been closer to the RAF than being in a UAS so I know nothing.
pps I dearly support the RAF and the entire UK Armed Forces. You are so sinned against while remaining saintly.
The current system of pilot recruitment, training and retention is about 50 years out of date.
It is geared around finding a 21 yr old Officer pilot with excellent physical aptitude and above average intelligence. As if they are going to spend the next 25 years flying high-G dogfights in Spitfires or Hunters against the Luftwaffe or Russian Air Force.
They're not.
Most of them will never ever fly supersonically. Those that do will achieve little even if they are used in the Air Battle of 2012. What IS required are a cadre of highly specialised blokes or girls that understand all manner of battlefield tactics, crypto, comms, weapons, weapons, weapons, and yet display excellent CRM excellent emotional stability and excellent team skills.
They will require a small division of techies, many will be employed by Boeing/Airbus/Raytheon/BAE etc etc.
None will need 25 airbases covering 149 acres each with support staff and a dog with a man on a leash at the gate waiting for Harry to turn up to collect his final salary pension.
This is the truth of the Modern RAF.
Cheers
WWW
ps I've never been closer to the RAF than being in a UAS so I know nothing.
pps I dearly support the RAF and the entire UK Armed Forces. You are so sinned against while remaining saintly.
A humble observation.
They will require a small division of techies, many will be employed by .
None will need 25 airbases covering 149 acres each with support staff and a dog with a man on a leash at the gate waiting for Harry to turn up to collect his final salary pension.
This is the truth of the Modern RAF.
Cheers
WWW
ps I've never been closer to the RAF than being in a UAS so I know nothing.
pps I dearly support the RAF and the entire UK Armed Forces. You are so sinned against while remaining saintly.
They will require a small division of techies, many will be employed by .
None will need 25 airbases covering 149 acres each with support staff and a dog with a man on a leash at the gate waiting for Harry to turn up to collect his final salary pension.
This is the truth of the Modern RAF.
Cheers
WWW
ps I've never been closer to the RAF than being in a UAS so I know nothing.
pps I dearly support the RAF and the entire UK Armed Forces. You are so sinned against while remaining saintly.
The simple but profound mantra drummed into every junior officer in my day was Money, Mail, Meals. The first would appear to be in chaos, the second a bone of contention if one includes all forms of communication from detachment, and one can only hope that they are at least being fed well! Add to these shortcomings those of quarters as well as a lack of military hospitals for the wounded, and a picture emerges of a dysfunctional organisation that is failing in its duty of care. The young and old alike suffer from these shortcomings, and are voting with their feet. I don't think that the employees of Messrs Boeing/Airbus/Raytheon/BAE etc etc will be minded to take their place in AFG etc etc, do you? The main strength of any military force is its morale. It takes years, decades, even centuries to build up an esprit de corps. It can take the mere stroke of a pen to destroy it. What Napoleon, the Kaiser, Hitler and Stalin failed to do, the apparatchiks of this contemptible bunch of peaceniks are achieving, that is the internal destruction of our armed forces. To give him credit General Danatt, the CGS, has voiced his fears, albeit to withdraw from Iraq, but from the Air Rank cadre...nothing! The armed forces are not a local council, where everything can be put out to private tender. They go to war, councils do not!
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"argue for your limitations and they are yours!"
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A humble observation.
It is geared around finding a 21 yr old Officer pilot with excellent physical aptitude and above average intelligence.
What IS required are a cadre of highly specialised blokes or girls that understand all manner of battlefield tactics, crypto, comms, weapons, weapons, weapons, and yet display excellent CRM excellent emotional stability and excellent team skills.
It is geared around finding a 21 yr old Officer pilot with excellent physical aptitude and above average intelligence.
What IS required are a cadre of highly specialised blokes or girls that understand all manner of battlefield tactics, crypto, comms, weapons, weapons, weapons, and yet display excellent CRM excellent emotional stability and excellent team skills.
How do you get one without the other? The two requirements would seem to be pretty much the same, especially when you consider that those older than 21 are harder to train to fly.
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Hello this is my first post but have watched from afar.
As the name suggests i work on the Mighty Hunter as a GE.
With regards to manpower issues up here at ISK 14 out of 18 fairies on one shift have PVR'd in the last month!!
Out of 83 supposed bodies avaliable to our shift this week 24 were at work as the rest are either in the gulf, coming back from the gulf or getting trained to go to the gulf, and only 4 were on leave.
Shift was:
1 x FS
1 x C/T rects contoller
1 x SAC line controller (no JNCO's to spare for this job)
3 x AGEs (out of 7)
4 x riggers (1 SNCO and 3 SACs) (out of 20)
2 x sootie SACs (out of 10)
3 x leckies (2 Cpls and 1 x-dressed fairy) (out of 10)
4 Plumbers (out of 15)
5 x faries (out of 18)
And this is before all the redundances and PVRs bite!!!!
The meltdown has begun gentlemen make no mistake about that and I despair for the future. Will no-one sit up and take note??!
As the name suggests i work on the Mighty Hunter as a GE.
With regards to manpower issues up here at ISK 14 out of 18 fairies on one shift have PVR'd in the last month!!
Out of 83 supposed bodies avaliable to our shift this week 24 were at work as the rest are either in the gulf, coming back from the gulf or getting trained to go to the gulf, and only 4 were on leave.
Shift was:
1 x FS
1 x C/T rects contoller
1 x SAC line controller (no JNCO's to spare for this job)
3 x AGEs (out of 7)
4 x riggers (1 SNCO and 3 SACs) (out of 20)
2 x sootie SACs (out of 10)
3 x leckies (2 Cpls and 1 x-dressed fairy) (out of 10)
4 Plumbers (out of 15)
5 x faries (out of 18)
And this is before all the redundances and PVRs bite!!!!
The meltdown has begun gentlemen make no mistake about that and I despair for the future. Will no-one sit up and take note??!
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Hello this is my first post but have watched from afar.
As the name suggests i work on the Mighty Hunter as a GE.
With regards to manpower issues up here at ISK 14 out of 18 fairies on one shift have PVR'd in the last month!!
Out of 83 supposed bodies avaliable to our shift this week 24 were at work as the rest are either in the gulf, coming back from the gulf or getting trained to go to the gulf, and only 4 were on leave.
Shift was:
1 x FS
1 x C/T rects contoller
1 x SAC line controller (no JNCO's to spare for this job)
3 x AGEs (out of 7)
4 x riggers (1 SNCO and 3 SACs) (out of 20)
2 x sootie SACs (out of 10)
3 x leckies (2 Cpls and 1 x-dressed fairy) (out of 10)
4 Plumbers (out of 15)
5 x faries (out of 18)
And this is before all the redundances and PVRs bite!!!!
The meltdown has begun gentlemen make no mistake about that and I despair for the future. Will no-one sit up and take note??!
As the name suggests i work on the Mighty Hunter as a GE.
With regards to manpower issues up here at ISK 14 out of 18 fairies on one shift have PVR'd in the last month!!
Out of 83 supposed bodies avaliable to our shift this week 24 were at work as the rest are either in the gulf, coming back from the gulf or getting trained to go to the gulf, and only 4 were on leave.
Shift was:
1 x FS
1 x C/T rects contoller
1 x SAC line controller (no JNCO's to spare for this job)
3 x AGEs (out of 7)
4 x riggers (1 SNCO and 3 SACs) (out of 20)
2 x sootie SACs (out of 10)
3 x leckies (2 Cpls and 1 x-dressed fairy) (out of 10)
4 Plumbers (out of 15)
5 x faries (out of 18)
And this is before all the redundances and PVRs bite!!!!
The meltdown has begun gentlemen make no mistake about that and I despair for the future. Will no-one sit up and take note??!
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Hello this is my first post but have watched from afar.
As the name suggests i work on the Mighty Hunter as a GE.
With regards to manpower issues up here at ISK 14 out of 18 fairies on one shift have PVR'd in the last month!!
Out of 83 supposed bodies avaliable to our shift this week 24 were at work as the rest are either in the gulf, coming back from the gulf or getting trained to go to the gulf, and only 4 were on leave.
Shift was:
1 x FS
1 x C/T rects contoller
1 x SAC line controller (no JNCO's to spare for this job)
3 x AGEs (out of 7)
4 x riggers (1 SNCO and 3 SACs) (out of 20)
2 x sootie SACs (out of 10)
3 x leckies (2 Cpls and 1 x-dressed fairy) (out of 10)
4 Plumbers (out of 15)
5 x faries (out of 18)
And this is before all the redundances and PVRs bite!!!!
The meltdown has begun gentlemen make no mistake about that and I despair for the future. Will no-one sit up and take note??!
As the name suggests i work on the Mighty Hunter as a GE.
With regards to manpower issues up here at ISK 14 out of 18 fairies on one shift have PVR'd in the last month!!
Out of 83 supposed bodies avaliable to our shift this week 24 were at work as the rest are either in the gulf, coming back from the gulf or getting trained to go to the gulf, and only 4 were on leave.
Shift was:
1 x FS
1 x C/T rects contoller
1 x SAC line controller (no JNCO's to spare for this job)
3 x AGEs (out of 7)
4 x riggers (1 SNCO and 3 SACs) (out of 20)
2 x sootie SACs (out of 10)
3 x leckies (2 Cpls and 1 x-dressed fairy) (out of 10)
4 Plumbers (out of 15)
5 x faries (out of 18)
And this is before all the redundances and PVRs bite!!!!
The meltdown has begun gentlemen make no mistake about that and I despair for the future. Will no-one sit up and take note??!
If meltdown continues like this, assuming this is not wholly unexceptional, it won't be long before the CAA takes control. Now that really is a worry!
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I am startled by the mighty hunter's post. How can CDS refer to "stretch" but not "over-stretch" when we appear to be staring into the abyss? I find it hard to understand what the RAF is trying to achieve. I am saddened by what is happening, especially the failure to admit to the dire situation. Please, someone correct me if I am wrong.
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Please, someone correct me if I am wrong.
It was the case not long ago, and probably remains so, that the sole reason UK military aircraft airworthiness is not managed by the CAA is because they are claimed to be maintained to 'at least the same standard as civil aircraft'.
S_H
Hello this is my first post but have watched from afar.
As the name suggests i work on the Mighty Hunter as a GE.
With regards to manpower issues up here at ISK 14 out of 18 fairies on one shift have PVR'd in the last month!!
Out of 83 supposed bodies avaliable to our shift this week 24 were at work as the rest are either in the gulf, coming back from the gulf or getting trained to go to the gulf, and only 4 were on leave.
Shift was:
1 x FS
1 x C/T rects contoller
1 x SAC line controller (no JNCO's to spare for this job)
3 x AGEs (out of 7)
4 x riggers (1 SNCO and 3 SACs) (out of 20)
2 x sootie SACs (out of 10)
3 x leckies (2 Cpls and 1 x-dressed fairy) (out of 10)
4 Plumbers (out of 15)
5 x faries (out of 18)
And this is before all the redundances and PVRs bite!!!!
The meltdown has begun gentlemen make no mistake about that and I despair for the future. Will no-one sit up and take note??!
As the name suggests i work on the Mighty Hunter as a GE.
With regards to manpower issues up here at ISK 14 out of 18 fairies on one shift have PVR'd in the last month!!
Out of 83 supposed bodies avaliable to our shift this week 24 were at work as the rest are either in the gulf, coming back from the gulf or getting trained to go to the gulf, and only 4 were on leave.
Shift was:
1 x FS
1 x C/T rects contoller
1 x SAC line controller (no JNCO's to spare for this job)
3 x AGEs (out of 7)
4 x riggers (1 SNCO and 3 SACs) (out of 20)
2 x sootie SACs (out of 10)
3 x leckies (2 Cpls and 1 x-dressed fairy) (out of 10)
4 Plumbers (out of 15)
5 x faries (out of 18)
And this is before all the redundances and PVRs bite!!!!
The meltdown has begun gentlemen make no mistake about that and I despair for the future. Will no-one sit up and take note??!
The down side that i saw was that inexperienced tradesmen were coming out to aircraft and unfortunately didnt have the ability,experience or knowledge to do the some of the repairs.
From the aircrew perspective, i do remember being shown a presentation which suggested that there might be a shortfall of nav`s in 2008 and again that was before the redundances started.
Somebody somewhere has badly screwd up - yet again !
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