SFO raids four premises in BAE contracts probe
And yet more trouble for 't Bungling Baron:
Now Switzerland launches bribery probe into BAE
From today's Sunday Times at http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle1782035.ece
Smoke..... Fire.....??
Now Switzerland launches bribery probe into BAE
From today's Sunday Times at http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle1782035.ece
Smoke..... Fire.....??
Little sir echo pops up again with another useful post.....
A campaign againt sleaze, spin, corruption, blackmail and attemped cover ups - perhaps. And if BWoS are exonerated, absolutely tremendous.
But Bliar and Goldsmiths' parts in this..... Hmmm.....
A campaign againt sleaze, spin, corruption, blackmail and attemped cover ups - perhaps. And if BWoS are exonerated, absolutely tremendous.
But Bliar and Goldsmiths' parts in this..... Hmmm.....
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They cannot be exonerated without concluding the investigation so I suspect they might not be totally happy that the threats from the Saudis persuaded Anthony Liar to call it off.
They are now having more difficulties with the American side of the business as a result and that is where they expect to make most of their future earnings.
They are now having more difficulties with the American side of the business as a result and that is where they expect to make most of their future earnings.
Beagles one man campaign to bring about the downfall of the UK aerospace industry goes on, and on, and on, and on,and zzzzzzzzzzz
Remind me again - how many whole aircraft do we build in Britain these days?
airsound
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how many whole aircraft do we build in Britain these days?
Typhoon. Final assembly for UK and some Export customers. Could be hundreds in the long term.
Hawk. Dozens of them. Maybe hundreds.
Typhoon. Final assembly for UK and some Export customers. Could be hundreds in the long term.
Let’s not forget that BAE Systems recently pulled out of one of the most successful aviation projects in the world, Airbus, preferring instead to build armoured vehicles and submarines. As I intended to suggest, the British aviation industry is nowadays a pale shadow of what was one of the greatest in the world.
airsound
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airsound,
Sorry, I knew what you meant. Just me being snotty. Mind you, no way anyone can say that JSF is all American. Partly British wouldn't you agree ?
How's that for a bit of thread creep. No doubt Beags will come up with some more damning evidence as to BWoS' misdemeanours very soon.
Some Typhoons may be finally screwed together here, but no way could you call it all-British. Perhaps I should have added that phrase ‘all-British’ to my comment
How's that for a bit of thread creep. No doubt Beags will come up with some more damning evidence as to BWoS' misdemeanours very soon.
no way anyone can say that JSF is all American. Partly British wouldn't you agree ?
How's that for a bit of thread creep.
How's that for a bit of thread creep.
Hope you agree, Mods
Btw, yes, good to be involved with F-35. Much better than not.
airsound
Police hunt arms trail in Downing Street
Just to keep Echo 5 happy:
See http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle1813808.ece
Police investigating alleged corruption by Britain’s biggest defence company sought access to Downing Street’s computer system to trawl for e-mails sent by and to Jonathan Powell, Tony Blair’s chief of staff.
They suspected that Lord Powell, his brother, an adviser to BAE Systems, the firm at the centre of the inquiry, was lobbying Downing Street aides to have the investigation stopped.
See http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle1813808.ece
Police investigating alleged corruption by Britain’s biggest defence company sought access to Downing Street’s computer system to trawl for e-mails sent by and to Jonathan Powell, Tony Blair’s chief of staff.
They suspected that Lord Powell, his brother, an adviser to BAE Systems, the firm at the centre of the inquiry, was lobbying Downing Street aides to have the investigation stopped.
BAE accused of secretly paying £1bn to Saudi prince
Yet more interesting information from the Grauniad:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/baefiles/s...097149,00.html
Here's an extract:
"It is alleged by insider legal sources that the money was paid to Prince B***** with the knowledge and authorisation of Ministry of Defence officials under the Blair government and its predecessors. For more than 20 years, ministers have claimed they knew nothing of secret commissions, which were outlawed by Britain in 2002."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/baefiles/s...097149,00.html
Here's an extract:
"It is alleged by insider legal sources that the money was paid to Prince B***** with the knowledge and authorisation of Ministry of Defence officials under the Blair government and its predecessors. For more than 20 years, ministers have claimed they knew nothing of secret commissions, which were outlawed by Britain in 2002."
1) Whatever gets UK plc business, in my view, and we're talking about a £40 Bn deal that kept god only knows how many high value jobs, and the tax on which kept all of us in work!
Everyone else was bribing the Saudis, whereas all anecdotal evidence (even from BAE's competitors) is that BAE recognised that there was a line between bribery and the normal gift-giving culture/use of middlemen that is endemic in the region, and always tried to stay on the right side of that line.
All evidence suggests that BAE has done nothing wrong and that payments made were approved by the MoD.
2) These payments are (ancient) history, and relate to Al Yamamah/Al Yamamah II, and NOT to the ongoing Typhoon deal.
3) The Guardian has been mounting a cynical and unscrupulous campaign against BAE Systems, and the individual journalist involved is deserving of the opprobrium that PPRuNe usually reserves for journos. It is profoundly uncomfortable to see fellow PPRuNers parroting this kind of leftist drivel, which aside from being utter shi.te is part of a profoundly anti-defence and anti-military underlying agenda.
Everyone else was bribing the Saudis, whereas all anecdotal evidence (even from BAE's competitors) is that BAE recognised that there was a line between bribery and the normal gift-giving culture/use of middlemen that is endemic in the region, and always tried to stay on the right side of that line.
All evidence suggests that BAE has done nothing wrong and that payments made were approved by the MoD.
2) These payments are (ancient) history, and relate to Al Yamamah/Al Yamamah II, and NOT to the ongoing Typhoon deal.
3) The Guardian has been mounting a cynical and unscrupulous campaign against BAE Systems, and the individual journalist involved is deserving of the opprobrium that PPRuNe usually reserves for journos. It is profoundly uncomfortable to see fellow PPRuNers parroting this kind of leftist drivel, which aside from being utter shi.te is part of a profoundly anti-defence and anti-military underlying agenda.
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Presumably you would be happy to hand out the P45's to those who would lose their jobs as a result of a failure in realpolitik between the UK and KSA so that you could feel smug on top of your moral pile.
His constant anti-BAE stance shows he cannot possible have any regard for those employed by the company or those affected in the wider context. (I am assuming he has even a vague understanding of economics to comprehend that - big assumption. Then again, he does list "aerospace consultant" in his profile, so he will be used to the economics of ripping people off for f*ck all return)
For other posters:
I can only apologise for those who suffer dealing with BAE senior management, try coping with them day by day! Incompetence seems to be the requirement for career development here!! It can be very frustrating as a subordinate, if it is how customer see us, that is even worse.
eal401
To be fair I don't think Beags is totally anti-BAe. Just one particular man (a former CINC STC....) who works for them, thats all! What happened then BEags - dis the nasty man steal your lunch money in the playground!
Joking aside, a reminder that this topic is the subject of Panorama on Mon 11 Jun.
To be fair I don't think Beags is totally anti-BAe. Just one particular man (a former CINC STC....) who works for them, thats all! What happened then BEags - dis the nasty man steal your lunch money in the playground!
Joking aside, a reminder that this topic is the subject of Panorama on Mon 11 Jun.
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British aircraft
I agree totally with the remarks that BAe management couldn't organise a c*** up in a brothel - and the only reason Wart On is still going is because they stole the Hawk production line from Dunsfold.
Yes, I'm going to mention the Sea Harrier - the last British fighter.
The world would have been a better place if the whippet-botherers had got the push, and Dunsfold carried on ( BTW I left before it closed, as I couldn't believe what passed for BAe 'management' in the later years).
This in hindsight will make the cancellation of the TSR2 seem nothing.
It's hardly surprising they had to pay mega-bucks to get someone daft enough to buy the Tornado - have you heard the reports from GW1&2 especially concerning Saudi practices & the RAF distancing themselves with all haste ?!! Not that their own results were too wonderful...
As for a post I read the other day asking why a GR1 Tornado with JP233 hadn't been organised to attack Port Stanley in '82, two answers - how many tankers would that have been, 'Black Buck' was considered on the edge !
Also I worked at ranges where JP233 was tried - it did virtually no damage & was regarded a total lemon, it's only value was the deterrent effect of delayed action.
Yes, I'm going to mention the Sea Harrier - the last British fighter.
The world would have been a better place if the whippet-botherers had got the push, and Dunsfold carried on ( BTW I left before it closed, as I couldn't believe what passed for BAe 'management' in the later years).
This in hindsight will make the cancellation of the TSR2 seem nothing.
It's hardly surprising they had to pay mega-bucks to get someone daft enough to buy the Tornado - have you heard the reports from GW1&2 especially concerning Saudi practices & the RAF distancing themselves with all haste ?!! Not that their own results were too wonderful...
As for a post I read the other day asking why a GR1 Tornado with JP233 hadn't been organised to attack Port Stanley in '82, two answers - how many tankers would that have been, 'Black Buck' was considered on the edge !
Also I worked at ranges where JP233 was tried - it did virtually no damage & was regarded a total lemon, it's only value was the deterrent effect of delayed action.
Double Nothing
This is the second thread where you have trashed the RAF Tornado contribution to Ops. As JP233 sorties accounted for a miniscule amount of actual attacks during GW1 and 2 (not forgetting Kosovo, Op DESERT FOX, attacks in self defence during Op SOUTHERN WATCH) perhaps you would be so good as to provide evidence, or a link to evidence, to support your comment
This is the second thread where you have trashed the RAF Tornado contribution to Ops. As JP233 sorties accounted for a miniscule amount of actual attacks during GW1 and 2 (not forgetting Kosovo, Op DESERT FOX, attacks in self defence during Op SOUTHERN WATCH) perhaps you would be so good as to provide evidence, or a link to evidence, to support your comment
Not that their own results were too wonderful...
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Wonder bomber
Wrathmonk,
I can point you to range personnel who recorded the JP233 non-results first hand;
as for other lessons, how about being shot down in droves on the first night of GW1, then being held back behind more useful a/c...
Oh and being embarassed by passing airliners at medium altitude - even Tornado drivers have described it as a slab-sided piece of junk - it's only able to do it's work now by stand-off weapons & decent targetting systems - so might as well be a Dominie, particularly the F3.
Other than paying people to take them, a huge export success ?
I can point you to range personnel who recorded the JP233 non-results first hand;
as for other lessons, how about being shot down in droves on the first night of GW1, then being held back behind more useful a/c...
Oh and being embarassed by passing airliners at medium altitude - even Tornado drivers have described it as a slab-sided piece of junk - it's only able to do it's work now by stand-off weapons & decent targetting systems - so might as well be a Dominie, particularly the F3.
Other than paying people to take them, a huge export success ?