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Bliar “Promises” Extra Resources in Afghanistan

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Old 11th Oct 2006, 04:43
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British Soldiers Stand to Benefit from Backdated Package
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Old 11th Oct 2006, 07:38
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Absolutely amazing what a bit of publicity will achieve!! So it's the helicopters, trucks and more troops next, is it Tony??

Troops to get £2,240 bonus for dangers of fighting overseas

By Thomas Harding, Daily Telegraph Defence Correspondent, 11/10/2006


Troops fighting abroad are to receive a tax-free £2,240 bonus as compensation for paying income tax while on operations, the Government announced yesterday.

The Defence Secretary, Des Browne, said the cash was to compensate troops for the "dangers and harsh conditions" they were experiencing on operations.

American and other foreign forces are exempt from paying tax during operations and the Ministry of Defence has been under pressure to give British soldiers a similar deal.

All personnel will receive the money, whatever their rank, and the cost – estimated at £60 million – will not deplete existing defence budgets.

After a six-month tour, the most junior ranks would be more than £500 better off than if they had been just exempted from the tax system, Mr Browne said.

The money will be paid to soldiers, sailors and airmen who have been deployed to Iraq, Afghanistan and the Balkans since April this year and will also apply to Territorial Army members and other reservists.

The Chancellor, Gordon Brown, said it was right for troops to be "properly rewarded" for deployments that have resulted in 119 troops killed in Iraq and 40 in Afghanistan, in addition to more than 7,000 wounded.

The Treasury "could go further and increase the award our forces receive when on operational service in the most dangerous conflict zones", the Chancellor said.

"This will seek to ensure that the extraordinary job our forces do and the risks they take and the danger they endure is once again acknowledged, making them amongst the best paid of any Armed Forces in the world."

The most junior soldiers in Iraq earn £39.24 a day or just over £14,000 a year, which, with a 12-hour day, means they are earning less than the minimum wage.

Troops currently receive a bonus of £7 a day as part of the "longer service separation allowance" for any overseas deployment lasting more than 10 days.

Tony Blair said yesterday that the new deal was a "reward for the enormous sacrifice" British troops had made during the war on terror.

"Our troops are doing very tough and vital work in situations tougher than anyone could imagine," the Prime Minister said. "We have got to give some recognition for the work that they are doing."

Weekly telephone calls home will also be increased from 20 minutes to 30 minutes and more access will be given to the internet.

David Cameron, the Tory leader, told the BBC that he hoped his party conference speech urging the Government to free soldiers on operations from paying income tax had had some impact.

"I went to see our troops in July. I got a very clear message from them about the anger at paying income tax," he said. "I raised this when I got back and I'm glad the Government has listened."
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Old 11th Oct 2006, 07:57
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So is the defence budget going to increase to pay these bonus's to the troops, or merely something else disappearing ?
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Old 11th Oct 2006, 09:34
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From the tone of the Newsnight interview with Des Browne yesterday, don't hold your breath.

The bean-counter mentality has started to click back in again and they are running around trying to reinterpret what Blair meant to say. Paxo asked Browne straight out if he was certain that there were no examples of lives being lost due to failure to deliver kit. Browne took the NL party line, as usual.

If Max Hastings thought Hoon was a weak Defence Minister, what must he think of Browne?
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Old 11th Oct 2006, 10:49
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Originally Posted by phil gollin
So is the defence budget going to increase to pay these bonus's to the troops, or merely something else disappearing ?
He said, and I quote, so it must be true:

"I would like to thank my Rt Hon friend the Chancellor for making over £60m of new money available so we can fund this new bonus without taking any existing defence funding away from front line needs. "
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Old 12th Oct 2006, 07:35
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Originally Posted by Wader2
He said, and I quote, so it must be true:

"I would like to thank my Rt Hon friend the Chancellor for making over £60m of new money available so we can fund this new bonus without taking any existing defence funding away from front line needs. "
Thanks, but ......

We get £60m to pay for the bonus, however it is being reported that the Treasury is pressing for various major projects to be cancelled quoting a times article :-

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2398487.html

and in particular :

"Treasury officials engaged in spending-round negotiations for next year’s budget settlements highlighted three projects that could be vulnerable: the acquisition of two Type 45 destroyers, each valued at £605 million; the development of a new generation of armoured personnel carriers, known as FRES (future rapid effects system), costing £12 billion; and a 25-year private finance initiative scheme for a new tri-Service training programme, costing about £10 billion. The Times learnt yesterday that the Treasury is demanding that the MoD cut one major project plus the order for the two destroyers. MoD sources said that the contracts, along with other procurement projects, were being looked at under the negotiations but said that there would be no decisions until next July. "


give £60m with one hand, take back billions with the other !
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Old 12th Oct 2006, 07:54
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Originally Posted by phil gollin
Thanks, but ......

give £60m with one hand, take back billions with the other !
Surely not. That would be an extremely un-English thing to do and simply not cricket.

After all who would trust a politician after that?
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Old 12th Oct 2006, 07:54
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Nice to know that Broon has already agreed the Trident replacement without a debate in sight. Makes him look like a man prepared to make tough decisions.....
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Old 12th Oct 2006, 08:14
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Originally Posted by phil gollin
"and a 25-year private finance initiative scheme for a new tri-Service training programme, costing about £10 billion.
Err... isn't the training PFI supposed to save us money compared to the Public Sector Comparitor of carrying on as normal? Cutting the PFI would surely mean we eliminated the training...
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Old 12th Oct 2006, 08:41
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Is it any wonder with the distrust this government has generated that at yesterday's DCSA exhibition in Cardiff that the overwhelming majority of approaches to our stall were not from people asking what we do or how we could help them, but civil servants and serving officers asking if we're recruiting - because they had taken early retirement or PVR.

Never mind Shakespearean 'something rotten in the state of Denmark'.....
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Old 12th Oct 2006, 08:56
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I’ve reproduced the following Telegraph article in its entirety and hope that regular readers can take the time to go through it. In these days when all we seem to hear of is the antics of incompetent, evasive, lying politicians, the money pit that the NHS has become and a national education system driven to new lows of performance by centrist diktat, fiddled statistics and continual degradation of the syllabus, it is wonderful to read of the quality, bravery and sheer professionalism of our armed forces. Truly they provide a beacon of excellence in a miasma of onward decline in public sector performance.

Moreover, the forces continue to “get the job done” with characteristic modesty and understatement and all against a background of progressive salami cuts in manpower, equipment and personnel benefit. Something must be good if an old cynic like me feels stirrings of pride in being British!! Very well done everyone, you have my absolutely unstinting admiration!!

And look on Bliar and crew. Even after years of “rationalization”, especially of infantry regiments, and in the face of your inevitable and up-coming weaselling out of your “promise” to provide more men, helicopters and trucks for Iraq and Afghanistan, the boys (and girls) can still do it. But don’t you dare try to take credit for it – it has absolutely zero to do with you or your loathed “New Labour”.

Troops come home with tales of heroism

Thomas Harding, Telegraph Defence Correspondent, 12/10/2006


The first troops to return from a summer of intense fighting in Afghanistan came home last night after some of the toughest battles the Army has seen in 50 years. The simple count of ammunition expended, 450,000 rounds of small arms fire, 4,300 artillery rounds and 1,000 grenades thrown – told its own story of the enormous gun battles.

A senior commander, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said: "We went there to carry out reconstruction and we ended up fighting a war."

For the past four months the 3,500 troops of the Helmand Task Force, based around 3 Bn the Parachute Regiment, have been fighting with an intensity not seen since the Korean War. They lost 16 dead and 43 wounded.

For the first time in decades, artillery fired their guns over open sights, military policemen were turned into streetwise infantry fighters and Chinook pilots watched as rockets and bullets came within inches of downing their aircraft.

Some soldiers talked of frontline fighting akin to the First World War, others nonchalantly accepted "becoming accustomed" to incoming fire.

"If anybody tells me that the youth of today cannot hack it then that is complete bloody nonsense – they showed courage in spades out there and done us all proud," the senior commander said.

"These guys have faced an intensity of combat we have not faced for generations. It's been quite hairy but the guys pulled through."

A unit of the Para's elite Pathfinder platoon who had gone to the town of Musa Qala for a six-day operation ended up spending 52 days in the town, in combat for 26 of them.

The tactic of pushing out into Taliban-held towns in northern Helmand using platoon houses of 50 to 100 men to protect the areas had worked because it acted as a "breakwater" that kept the enemy away from more central areas.
Some patrols in the town of Sangin left their base knowing that there was a 90 per cent chance of contact with the enemy.

"It takes a special kind of courage for anybody to go out day after day to know what they are up against particularly when they have seen their friends killed on previous operations," the officer said. "RAF have also given us some of bravest flying I have ever seen or heard of.

"But I think more could have been done to prepare the public for the type of mission we were about to undertake."

The initial role of the Royal Military Police, carrying out routine investigation duties, changed into one of fighting pitched battles, standing shoulder to shoulder with Paras they would more normally have been separating in bar-room brawls.

With the severe lack of infantrymen, the RMPs were among several units called to fight. For the first time, the soldiers were asked to use heavy machine guns, mortars and grenades to fight off waves of Taliban attacks.

The night before his death Cpl Bryan Budd had talked quietly to RMP L/Cpl Matt Carse about his wife and the joy of becoming a father for the first time.
By the next day, after a fierce fire fight to recover a Para listed as "missing in action", L/Cpl Carse had reverted to police duties of photographing Cpl Budd's body and conducting a forensic examination.

The military policeman had been sent to Sangin to investigate the death of a soldier crushed by a British light tank but soon found himself in a pitched battle.

"A patrol had been ambushed with machine guns and there was a Para missing," he said.

"We formed a quick reaction force and with a Para sniper we went out to find him. We ran out through the gates of the platoon house under fire. We took a lot of fire as we got into a cornfield where the soldier was and then we had to fight our way back to the platoon house with Cpl Budd.

"He was one of the best and bravest soldiers I had met – he had taken on the Taliban virtually on his own."

He described the paratroopers he fought alongside as "awesome troops". "But we also had to become fighting troops for our own self-preservation," he said.

For the first time in almost 50 years the Royal Artillery fired over "open sights". In a tactic redolent of the Napoleonic era, the gunners of I Battery 7 Royal Horse fired their 105mm shells from close range at a Taliban machine gun nest during one engagement. Overall the battery of six light guns fired an extraordinary 4,300 rounds of mostly high explosive ordnance.

As desperate battles raged around the platoon houses with wave after wave of Taliban attacks, the infantry called in the bombardments with the artillery at times landing them "target close" – about 100 yards away from friendly positions.

Major Gary Wilkinson, 37, the battery commander, had to give up a troop of 30 men to become infantry. After one two-week operation, in which the unit had fired 10,000 rifle rounds, they had 20 hours to ready their cannons and return to duty as gunners.

"It was hugely demanding, exciting, difficult, dangerous and rewarding," the officer said.
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Old 12th Oct 2006, 09:24
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Absolutely amazing!

I just wish that Joe Public was aware of what was going on out there.
 
Old 12th Oct 2006, 09:45
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You really think Joe Public would care?

Not with Ant'n'Dec, Strictly Come Dancing and the X Factor on TV.

I am not joking.
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Old 12th Oct 2006, 12:15
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Originally Posted by BluntedAtBirth
Err... isn't the training PFI supposed to save us money compared to the Public Sector Comparitor of carrying on as normal? Cutting the PFI would surely mean we eliminated the training...
What a stupid and preposterous thought. PFI is all about discounting the future. Pay tomorrow in cheaper money than find all the money today.

If we could have conned someone into buy all the Typhoons and a lease back with the promise that we could either buy them at a discount in 25 years time or the owner could flog 'em off, then we would have done.

All PFI is about is spending as little up front now and delaying the real bill until later. As the bills start to mount up then we simply cancel another Type 45 or whatever.
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Old 12th Oct 2006, 16:15
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator
All PFI is about is spending as little up front now and delaying the real bill until later. As the bills start to mount up then we simply cancel another Type 45 or whatever.
The real surprise is that no one admits it. But you're 100% right and everyone who has ever touched on it know it to be so.

The other thing about PFIs is the winning companies are aching to sell you another 'premium rate' service from a catalogue (which might be a few extra flying hours for an aircraft, or a sandwich in the canteen of a building), because it's real money, now.

On the down side, the companies have to be v v v careful how they calculate their cashflow and costs, as it's dead easy to make a loss. But that's what risk and reward is all about, or so you'd think. However when they're making a loss, companies drop the problem back in the government's lap or sell on their contracts to cheaper companies. And guess what? Service standards decline; oh, and the original PFI bidder gets to walk away scot free.

So government delays when it has to pay up, service standards decline (in general) and wherever the PFI touches on we individuals (such as canteens) we pay premium rates for an ordinary service - and no one is allowed to compete with the service supplier once the contract is signed.

It's a complete rolling goat!
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Old 12th Oct 2006, 16:44
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Originally Posted by GlosMikeP
it's dead easy to make a loss but companies drop the problem back in the government's lap
I had that amazing thing two years running - underspends as the companies that should have been doing the delievery decided they could not afford to take my money and both dropped their contract - pas de problem
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Old 12th Oct 2006, 17:01
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator
I had that amazing thing two years running - underspends as the companies that should have been doing the delievery decided they could not afford to take my money and both dropped their contract - pas de problem
I think that's what's known as proof positive - QED.

But all the while government wants to buy today and pay tomorrow, it will continue. I suppose the other element is that, those responsible will be long since moved on when the chickens come home to roost.
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Old 13th Oct 2006, 15:24
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Originally Posted by GlosMikeP
I think that's what's known as proof positive - QED.

But all the while government wants to buy today and pay tomorrow, it will continue. I suppose the other element is that, those responsible will be long since moved on when the chickens come home to roost.

Perhaps Tony was hoping we could get our Kit off Ebay?

Hip

Your own SA-6 for the front Lawn!


Unfortunately, I reckon this was the budget Tony and the Tight-Fisted Scot were hoping for, not realising that quality Kit, like DAS, comes at a price.
 
Old 15th Oct 2006, 02:34
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MoD forced to hire civilian helicopters in Afghanistan

By Francis Elliott and Raymond Whitaker
Independent, 15 October 2006
. Full Story

Britain is so short of helicopters in Afghanistan that military chiefs are being forced to scour the world for civilian aircraft to support its troops after the US rejected a plea to help plug the shortfall.

An ageing fleet of just eight Chinooks is working around the clock to supply and reinforce soldiers in remote outposts facing waves of Taliban attacks. The only Chinook in the Falklands was taken away for use in the campaign.

The revelations come in the wake of the outburst by General Sir Richard Dannatt, the army chief, against the Government's military strategy last week.

The Independent on Sunday can also reveal that reconnaissance and intelligence missions in Afghanistan are being affected by the lack of smaller and more flexible helicopters. But senior military officials said that when UK commanders asked for temporary deployment of US helicopters in Afghanistan, they were told there were none to spare.

Instead, the MoD has been forced to seek out commercial operators for non-combat operations, to free more military craft for use at the front line. So urgent is the need that Britain is understood to be asking other nations that have ordered Merlin helicopters from Westland to allow the MoD to requisition them.

Just last weekend Tony Blair said: "If the commanders on the ground want more equipment, armoured vehicles for example, more helicopters, that will be provided. Whatever package they want we will do."

The revelations reinforce the view of Gen Dannatt that the military is running at full stretch in Iraq and Afghanistan, where yesterday two more Nato soldiers were killed and an Italian photojournalist was kidnapped. But it became clear this weekend that the general would not be sacked, despite saying that the presence of British troops in Iraq "exacerbates" the "difficulties we are facing around the world", and that we should "get ourselves out some time soon".

* Private Peter McKinley, 21, of the Parachute Regiment has become the first British soldier in Afghanistan to be recommended for the Victoria Cross after he saved a wounded US sergeant under heavy fire.
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Old 15th Oct 2006, 09:46
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I wonder if having Griffons at Shawbury we should be looking at what resources could be sent from within what we already have.
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