RAF Historical Property being allowed to waste away...

[JHC Wilton]

Middle Wallop is a perfect example of how the Army have strived to preserve the RAF heritage. The buildings remain preserved in the state they were in when the RAF left - even the hydraulic gun turrets remain (If you know where to look). Nothing's been touched, apart from absolutely necessary minor repairs - it's just like putting the clock back 50 years!
Mind you it's a crap environment to live and work in...

[soprano54]

Originally Posted by Dundiggin'

I wonder if you would ask the Regiment reader to re-read the post to you so that you may understand it better!!

I didn't mention 'battle honours' at all!! I'm talking about property ie buildings and estate...National heritage which remains yours, mine and the Nation's heritage.

'National' heritage dear boy, things like the first Central Flying School in the World at RAF Upavon formed by Lord Trenchard, RAF Gutersloh Officers Mess with its' bending beam in the tower etc etc.

So get him/her to re-read it to you there's a love

I think Upavon was allowed to decay long before the Army took over! The Army is'nt going to pay for the upkeep of disused hangars when it could be spending money on living accommodation. As for the beam in Gutersloh Officers Mess thats long gone, you're using it as a 'Chip' for your shoulder, its big enough!

[Dundiggin']

sopano54

Have the beam and the tower bar disappeared from Gutersloh?

Any chip I have has been the product of your type's anallity matey!

But think about the original reason for this thread; surely if the current 'owners' of property which was once proudly held by others, lets that property fall into gross disrepair, then people of my pursuasion are not going to be happy with it.

It may not be entirely the Army's fault but if you're in the chair and supposedly looking after the place, then who can blame us for thinking it's down to an unsympathetic and uncaring tenant?

[Brain Potter]

I heard a story recently from someone who has been to Bruggen since the Army took over. This chap saw that some kids playing football had been provided with a board with various holes cut in as a target through which to kick the ball. He though it was a great idea and went for a closer look. It turned out that the other side of the board was the roll-of-honour of the former Stn Cdrs of RAF Bruggen that had been discarded from SHQ!!

[L-H]

Gentlemen of the Naval Services, I seem to recall that the Royal Navy is still referred to as the 'Senior Service' not because of it's longevity in comparison to the other two fine fighting arms of Aunty Betty's finest, but because of the emergence of the east India Company and the creation of it's own navy (and Army) in the late 17 century.

Anyway it's all a load of hoop frankly people getting all hot under the collar over triv!

For my part, it's a virtual impossibility to maintain all the sights of significant and historical interest. A 'C' type hangar is a 'C' type hangar regardless of where it is, similarly so is a Romney, a Nissen Hut,......................! Further I cannot agree that Scampton should be regarded as special on the basis of a single bombing raid, although THAT is important. Lovely, lovely RAF Coltishall, my home for nearly 14 years on and off, also significant in that it was the last OPERATIONAL BoB station, clearly too has served it's purpose. I suppose my point is that we must move on and look to the future, but what should be done is records made, plans drawn up, photographs taken etc so that future generations can study these places in an historical context.

Finally, I live in East Anglironshire which is quite literally groaning at the seams in historical locations, for example down the road from me is Fersfield, Airfield is still there as an agricultural site, the accommodation huts quietly rotting at the site of the roads hidden in the undergrowth, then there is Watton, the domestic site has gone and is now a building site for a housing development, Old Buckenham, Thorpe Abbotts, Snetterton, Bodney (now Army) it's bleeddin' endless.

[soprano54]

Originally Posted by Dundiggin'

Have the beam and the tower bar disappeared from Gutersloh?

Any chip I have has been the product of your type's anallity matey!

But think about the original reason for this thread; surely if the current 'owners' of property which was once proudly held by others, lets that property fall into gross disrepair, then people of my pursuasion are not going to be happy with it.

It may not be entirely the Army's fault but if you're in the chair and supposedly looking after the place, then who can blame us for thinking it's down to an unsympathetic and uncaring tenant?

Dundiggin you please to hear that the the beam is still there, as for the tower bar I can't answer that.

I am currently stationed in what was an SS Tank units barracks and it suits our needs very well, being a Tank regiment ourselves. So to that end all the hangars are used and kept in good order! If say a light role Infantry battalion were to occupy the lines then I daresay in a very short time the unused buildings would become neglected.

L-H hello how are you mate?

[L-H]

Soprano 54, I'm fabulastic matey. Things out here in civvystrasse are pretty good at the mo. You got your name down for the Stn Cdrs house at Colt yet when they come up on the market?

[rudekid]

L-H

As much as I admire Coltishall and rue it's passing, RAF NORTHOLT is still operational and had a significant role in the BoB.

RK

[soprano54]

Originally Posted by L-H

Soprano 54, I'm fabulastic matey. Things out here in civvystrasse are pretty good at the mo. You got your name down for the Stn Cdrs house at Colt yet when they come up on the market?

No not yet, but as soon as at it comes on the market I intend to stick in a bid. Best keep stum about being a 'Pongo' as they might think I won't look after it!

AUDAX

[Comp Charlie]

Originally Posted by rudekid

L-H
RAF NORTHOLT is still operational and had a significant role in the BoB.

RK

As did some of the aircrew currently wandering the camp!

CC

[Maple 01]

s much as I admire Coltishall and rue it's passing, RAF NORTHOLT is still operational and had a significant role in the BoB.

Naaah sorry mate, Northolt's just another inner-city civi business airport that happens to have a few blue-suiters about – no operational stuff since 1945. Now Colt? That at least had fighter squadrons there until the end - or do HS125s count theses days?

RAF Northolt
One of the key airfields in the defence of London during the Battle of Britain, Northolt became the major airport for London in 1946, until the new site at Heathrow opened. Transport Command continued using Northolt after this, and the role of providing VIP air transport is the major task of the airfield today.

so non-operational flying only

Mission Statement:
"To provide a secure airfield from which to support the Communications Fleet, wider Military tasks, and act as the RAF's core strategic site in London"

Can't find the vomit icon - sorted!

RAF Coltishall
Always a fighter Station, Coltishall opened in May of 1940 and was initially home to night-fighter, intruder and anti-shipping Squadrons. Coltishall includes the distinction of being the first RAF Station to operate the English Electric Lightning all-weather fighter in its long list of achievements and is currently home to the entire RAF Jaguar fleet of aircraft.

oops, a little out of date, but proves a point
sources RAF Website

[L-H]

RK,

FYI I am more than aware of RAF Northolt's contribution during the BoB, particularly as my grandfather was stationed there as the IO on 303 Sqn in 1940. Nevertheless dear ol' Maple 01 has made my point for me rather well on Northolt's role since 1945, so nuff said!

Soprano 54, Knowing you mate you'll plump for the house with the best preserved camouflage paint so that it'll match yer natty tankie romper suit.

Blackcat, Audax; Roger.

[vecvechookattack]

Hey, this is good....a thread allowing the RN/RAF to bait each other....haven't we done this before.

This is more interesting

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/essex/5305774.stm


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/5281238.stm

[soprano54]

Originally Posted by L-H

RK,



Soprano 54, Knowing you mate you'll plump for the house with the best preserved camouflage paint so that it'll match yer natty tankie romper suit.

Blackcat, Audax; Roger.

Nah 21 Hautbois will do just fine!

[cazatou]

L-H

When your Grandfather was at Northolt in 1940 the Airfield had been a Fighter Base for 25 Years

[rudekid]

L-H/Maple 01

Alright, I'll bite! My grandfather made parachutes, but that doesn't make me qualified to spout rubbish about parachuting!

If I get your argument correctly, Northolt isn't an operational airfield because it isn't a fast jet base. Wow. Does that mean that Lyneham and Odiham aren't operational becaue they don't house fast jet aircraft. If you looked at operational sorties flown in the major operational theatres, the HS125 is doing more Op work than the Jag has done in the last 10 years...And I'm not a 125 driver!

Your quote about Northolt is as out of date as Colt's!

Jags been anywhere near an Op theatre since the nineties? Launched any Op missions from Colt (prior to closure) ever? I think not!


Comp Charlie- Nice one

PS Unless I'm similarly mistaken, the Jag was never a fighter!

Back to thread though, I believe that Northolt's BoB heritage is about to be side swiped by MODeL despite it's heritage status. This isn't the Army or the Navy, it's a light blue lead who has no interest in any form of preservation. It would be a very simple move and a minor effort to transform what exists into something which would provide a useful facility. Just needs some interest from further up the command chain...

[Roadster280]

Originally Posted by Dundiggin'

So what I want to know is:

Why are the pongoes letting historical ex-RAF land and property waste away and fall into rack and ruin?? For example and there are lots of 'em:

RAF Upavon - 1st Central Flying School in the World! - Have you seen the state of the hangars? These are listed buildings for christ's sake!! What are you doing about RAF heritage??
RAF Abingdon - RAF Para school - now a dump for bloody tanks! Donkey walloping & jogging is now a priority!! WTF!! Motor bikes are banned!!! What about the rally cars?? Tw@ts!
Let's face it you Army wallas are really a bunch of complete self centered Tw@ts or can you tell me that you really care about the RAF/UK history and in fact, co's you ought to..................co's we are really p'ssed off that you are letting our history go to rack and ruin.

Why????

I would love to stay friends but this is stretching the limits somewhat......

As an ex pongo that had the pleasure of serving at RAF Upavon, I can speak with some knowledge of the site in question.

Firstly, the site was only ever temporarily in RAF hands, it started as an Army camp, and has returned to being such. Like most defence sites, it is older than the RAF.

Secondly, the camp itself was an architectural disaster. There were the original buildings, (e.g. Offrs', Sgts' & Cpls' Messes, Scarf block, some MQs, and the lower two hangars (Wyvern Gliding school & MT). Then there was the 30s expansion stuff, the larger hangar (MAOTs, supply & MT overflow) and short hangar used as gym, Middleton & Nettleton blocks, Airmens' Mess. Then there was the 60s carbuncle of the HQ building, & SHQ. It was a complete hotchpotch of buildings.

Thirdly, and finally, the C Type hangar we occupied a third of, was in a terrible state of repair in 93 when I was posted out. I went back in 98 on an Army course, it had become various Army HQs by then. Our hangar was exactly the same as I left it, even down to the painted red hand on the hangar floor. As pointed out, a disgrace, though it had been in RAF hands in that state. Our block, Middleton block, had been converted into the headquarters of the Royal Army Chaplain's Department.

I suppose there is no point in investing in keeping a 70 year old hangar in pristine condition, unless you are going to keep several million pounds worth of aircraft in them. I remember the hangars at Dishforth on an exercise, not long after the AAC took over. One of them was in good order, and the Wokkas were parked in it overnight. The next hangar along was in absolute $hit state. I wouldn't have parked a bin truck in there.

Perhaps the MOD should seek to dispose of the not-so-historic sites and keep the famous ones for posterity.

RAF Driffield is pretty much a complete 30s style expansion period aerodrome, and of immense historic value for architectural reasons. But is it really as evocative as Tangmere, Scampton, etc?

Anyway, back to banter, Trenchard Lines lives once more as an Army site, celebrating one of the most famous of all Army Generals.