Civvy RT
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Civvy RT
Was flying on a nav ex the other day and completely stunned by some of the RT transmissions made by civvy flying schools. it seems that they talk just to make noise and clog up the airwaves.
having said that, i got passed on to a small city airport in south yorkshire, who were very helpful and kept the transmissions short and punchy.
Just wondering if anyone else is in the same boat where you can't get a word in due to some johnson having a conversation with another aircraft?
having said that, i got passed on to a small city airport in south yorkshire, who were very helpful and kept the transmissions short and punchy.
Just wondering if anyone else is in the same boat where you can't get a word in due to some johnson having a conversation with another aircraft?
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I am a civvy pilot and a UAS stude, so I view the R/T from both sides of the fence. I do find some civvy R/T to be utter rubbish. I can find myself getting quite hot under the collar as I am waiting to put in a transmission as a waypoint or something approaches, or if I have an important call to make and someone is sitting chatting away making a right faff. Military R/T seems far more succinct and sensible. At times I do find more information could be passed, but ultimately its far more efficient than listening to the drivel coming out on VHF at times.
I think you need to remember that civvy flying does not have the rigorous standards that military pilots have to aspire to, and there are somewhat "doddery" types out there who need the extra long transmissions to be sure. Personally, I don't think I would feel safe flying civvy GA with military style R/T, primarily because a lot of our airfields are A/G and we do not have a tower or radar controller to watch us all the time. I do understand how shocking it must be to entirely mil pilots coming across it as times- flying schools I can live with, but some qualified pilots out there are a lot worse, and they are the ones that get to me.
I think you need to remember that civvy flying does not have the rigorous standards that military pilots have to aspire to, and there are somewhat "doddery" types out there who need the extra long transmissions to be sure. Personally, I don't think I would feel safe flying civvy GA with military style R/T, primarily because a lot of our airfields are A/G and we do not have a tower or radar controller to watch us all the time. I do understand how shocking it must be to entirely mil pilots coming across it as times- flying schools I can live with, but some qualified pilots out there are a lot worse, and they are the ones that get to me.
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Airplane!
Flight Control: Flight 209 you're clear for takeoff.
Clarence Oveur: Roger.
Roger Murdock: Huh?
FC: LA departure frequency 123.9.
Clarence Oveur: Roger.
Roger Murdock: Huh?
Victor Basta: Request vector, over.
Clarence Oveur: What?
FC: Flight 209 clear for vector 324.
Roger Murdock: We have clearance, Clarence.
Clarence Oveur: Roger, Roger, what's our vector, victor?
FC: Now we're in radio clearance, over.
Clarence Oveur: That's Clarence Oveur, over.
Victor Basta: Roger.
Roger Murdock: Huh?
FC: Roger, over.
Clarence Oveur: What?
Roger Murdock: Huh?
Victor Basta: Who?
Flight Control: Flight 209 you're clear for takeoff.
Clarence Oveur: Roger.
Roger Murdock: Huh?
FC: LA departure frequency 123.9.
Clarence Oveur: Roger.
Roger Murdock: Huh?
Victor Basta: Request vector, over.
Clarence Oveur: What?
FC: Flight 209 clear for vector 324.
Roger Murdock: We have clearance, Clarence.
Clarence Oveur: Roger, Roger, what's our vector, victor?
FC: Now we're in radio clearance, over.
Clarence Oveur: That's Clarence Oveur, over.
Victor Basta: Roger.
Roger Murdock: Huh?
FC: Roger, over.
Clarence Oveur: What?
Roger Murdock: Huh?
Victor Basta: Who?
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nice joke.
looks like there are a few people who notice the gashness of some civvy places.
i was flyin the other day, and about to call finals to land, when someone broadcasted the following message, 'hey fella.....cup of tea fella......ah ah aaaah'
iv never known anythin like it, as strange and annoying as it was, it had me in tears with laughter.
anyone got anythin to beat that?
looks like there are a few people who notice the gashness of some civvy places.
i was flyin the other day, and about to call finals to land, when someone broadcasted the following message, 'hey fella.....cup of tea fella......ah ah aaaah'
iv never known anythin like it, as strange and annoying as it was, it had me in tears with laughter.
anyone got anythin to beat that?
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Red Flag Brief...
Bite into my wing and don't say anything but '2,' 'bingo,' and 'Lead, you're on fire.'
— Briefing to a novice USAF wingman: stay close, acknowledge channel changes, tell me when you're out of gas and let me know if there is something wrong with my aircraft. Otherwise, shut up.
Now that IS concise!
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There are a whole bunch of reasons why some civvy pilots are poor at RT. I think it's where you learned to fly that determines the quality of your RT. Incorrect phraseology etc is understandable from a civvy pilot who has very little exposure to 'proper' air traffic but there is no exscuse for private chit chat at any level!
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SNAFU i couldnt agree more. in most cases there are civvy pilots who honcho with others and do try and help each other out, but in most cases it sounds like your tuned into gash fm. theres a whole bunch of stuff that needs sorting.
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Perhaps it's an issue of clarity of RT being relative to speed. At 7-8 miles per min 250 ft, you don't have the time or brain power to waffle!
I remember flying through Spade a while back & trying to check in with ATC only to find a C130 (none RAF) on the freq, waffling on about Hadrian's Wall being a fantastic sight & a monument of Roman engineering. He then went on to ask ATC whether there were any other decent sights of historical interest! No prizes for guessing where the pilot was from.
I remember flying through Spade a while back & trying to check in with ATC only to find a C130 (none RAF) on the freq, waffling on about Hadrian's Wall being a fantastic sight & a monument of Roman engineering. He then went on to ask ATC whether there were any other decent sights of historical interest! No prizes for guessing where the pilot was from.
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Civil flight schools usually teach students to use short and concise RT. Who, where, intentions, etc. Problems can arise when pilots don't use the radio much, either intentionally or due to lack of confidence. This lack of practice can lead to longer transmissions and mumbling.
I have heard 'waffle' going on at AG airfields where there is a club member in the tower talking to a club member in the curcuit. Have also heard it at glider airfields where they talk about anything and everything.
I have heard 'waffle' going on at AG airfields where there is a club member in the tower talking to a club member in the curcuit. Have also heard it at glider airfields where they talk about anything and everything.
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Flying yesterday. Listened to a local glider site whilst en route, someone on there talking about a recent trip to Kazakhstan and then proceeded to tell some sh!t jokes to amuse everyone. A complete clown, he certainly sounded like A Fool.
Bottom line is don't let it bother you, i don't think anybody's RT is perfect 100% of the time.
Bottom line is don't let it bother you, i don't think anybody's RT is perfect 100% of the time.
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I personally find transmissions such as perfect but long winded Practice PANs and joining calls from military slow movers that should know better far more annoying than rubbish RT from those that may be excused.
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Try Cosford on a standard weekend. Four Vigilants in the northern circuit, southern circuit active with gliders, four Tutors recovering with straight in approaches, air ambulance departing, one controller, one frequency and just then some civvie breaks in with a 60 second transmission giving the whole history of his local flight from Halfpenny Green and asking for a non-existent radar service. MAYHEM!
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Originally Posted by dakkg651
Try Cosford on a standard weekend. Four Vigilants in the northern circuit, southern circuit active with gliders, four Tutors recovering with straight in approaches, air ambulance departing, one controller, one frequency and just then some civvie breaks in with a 60 second transmission giving the whole history of his local flight from Halfpenny Green and asking for a non-existent radar service. MAYHEM!
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Sorry Viffer.
Sounds like Cosford and Wyton are great places to learn about situational awareness. I know some visiting pilots have had the c**p frightened out of them and vowed never to come again on a weekend.
Sounds like Cosford and Wyton are great places to learn about situational awareness. I know some visiting pilots have had the c**p frightened out of them and vowed never to come again on a weekend.
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hrmmm
Ridgerunner thanks for sharing your Wealth of information with us.... I'll
bare in mind your request for 'a bit more info'. Make sure you pass that
'nugget' to CFS so they can alter the way we do things.... I often find
myself wanting 'just that bit more' info when talking to GCI/AWACS on one
box whilst maintaining all formation comm for an IMC 4ship in grinder
without JTIDS on the back box.... There's a reason why do things the way
we do, and may I be as bold as to suggest perhaps you don't!?
bare in mind your request for 'a bit more info'. Make sure you pass that
'nugget' to CFS so they can alter the way we do things.... I often find
myself wanting 'just that bit more' info when talking to GCI/AWACS on one
box whilst maintaining all formation comm for an IMC 4ship in grinder
without JTIDS on the back box.... There's a reason why do things the way
we do, and may I be as bold as to suggest perhaps you don't!?
