Tony Bliar – What is going on with the Armed Forces?
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A Prime Minister is supposed to nurture one of its most valuable and appreciating assets, its armed forces.
Balfour may have done a little bit but apart from him...nope. The PM isn't supposed to nuture the Armed Forces...he is supposed to send us off to war and conflict. Thats what we do, Thats what we are here for. Not for nuturing.
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Hmmm… You might be missing the bigger picture here, rafloo. Sure Bliar is not going to start showing his wonderfully cuddly and fluffy “Nu Labour” care and compassion towards individual service members or units (he’s too gutless to come face-to-face, especially with the casualties of his messianic ventures). That’s not what I meant by nurture.
My words were meant to imply that Bliar (or any other PM) has a duty of care towards armed services manning, morale, equipment, infrastructure and continuity. He has consistently shown his view of the services as “on-tap”, “throw-away” commodities that do not need thought towards, or consideration of, their finest traditions or fighting efficiency and has, hence, consistently shirked this fundamental duty of care. Moreover, in these times of ever increasing international danger, he has shown no sense that the assets he controls are of rapidly appreciating value, being the only consistently reliable bulwark we have, against an almost daily terror threat growth.
Bliar’s sworn enemy, Brown, has an even more dismissive attitude towards the services and, if anything, as allocator of service funding for the past nine miserable years, is even more derelict in his duty than Bliar. The sooner this shower of liars and incompetents is out of office, the better for both the country and the services.
My words were meant to imply that Bliar (or any other PM) has a duty of care towards armed services manning, morale, equipment, infrastructure and continuity. He has consistently shown his view of the services as “on-tap”, “throw-away” commodities that do not need thought towards, or consideration of, their finest traditions or fighting efficiency and has, hence, consistently shirked this fundamental duty of care. Moreover, in these times of ever increasing international danger, he has shown no sense that the assets he controls are of rapidly appreciating value, being the only consistently reliable bulwark we have, against an almost daily terror threat growth.
Bliar’s sworn enemy, Brown, has an even more dismissive attitude towards the services and, if anything, as allocator of service funding for the past nine miserable years, is even more derelict in his duty than Bliar. The sooner this shower of liars and incompetents is out of office, the better for both the country and the services.
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As alway, all this has been covered by Jonathan Lynn 20 years ago.
"Things don't happen just because Prime Ministers are keen on them. Neville Chamberlain was keen on peace."
The reason for going to war?
"The problem of the Ministry of Defence is that in peace time the three armed forces have no one on whom to vent their warlike instincts except the cabinet or each other."
The reason no one stopped the war?
"In government, many people have the power to stop things happening but almost nobody has the power to make things happen. The system has the engine of a lawn mower and the brakes of a Rolls Royce."
The reason MPs always get it wrong:
"Being an MP is a vast subsidized ego-trip. It's a job that needs no qualifications, it has no compulsory hours of work, no performance standards, and provides a warm room, a telephone and subsidized meals to a bunch of self-important windbags and busybodies who suddenly find people taking them seriously because they've go the letters 'MP' after the their name."
Make up your own mind on these:
"There was nothing wrong with appeasement. All that World War Two achieved after six years was to leave Eastern Europe under a Communist dictatorship instead of a Fascist dictatorship. That's what comes of not listening to the Foreign Office."
"Britain should always be on the side of law and justice, so long as we don't allow it to affect our foreign policy."
"Press statements are not delivered under oath."
"The Foreign Office aren't there to do things. They're there to explain why things can't be done."
"People have said a lot of unpleasant things about the Foreign Office, but no one has ever accused them of patriotism."
"Things don't happen just because Prime Ministers are keen on them. Neville Chamberlain was keen on peace."
The reason for going to war?
"The problem of the Ministry of Defence is that in peace time the three armed forces have no one on whom to vent their warlike instincts except the cabinet or each other."
The reason no one stopped the war?
"In government, many people have the power to stop things happening but almost nobody has the power to make things happen. The system has the engine of a lawn mower and the brakes of a Rolls Royce."
The reason MPs always get it wrong:
"Being an MP is a vast subsidized ego-trip. It's a job that needs no qualifications, it has no compulsory hours of work, no performance standards, and provides a warm room, a telephone and subsidized meals to a bunch of self-important windbags and busybodies who suddenly find people taking them seriously because they've go the letters 'MP' after the their name."
Make up your own mind on these:
"There was nothing wrong with appeasement. All that World War Two achieved after six years was to leave Eastern Europe under a Communist dictatorship instead of a Fascist dictatorship. That's what comes of not listening to the Foreign Office."
"Britain should always be on the side of law and justice, so long as we don't allow it to affect our foreign policy."
"Press statements are not delivered under oath."
"The Foreign Office aren't there to do things. They're there to explain why things can't be done."
"People have said a lot of unpleasant things about the Foreign Office, but no one has ever accused them of patriotism."
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Earth calling Planet Freebie – In the Chav-Berlusconi Constellation
Ok Tony, they’ve got your measure and it seems official:
Being an MP (and especially a PM) is a vast subsidized ego-trip. It's a job that needs no qualifications, it has no compulsory hours of work, no performance standards, and provides a warm room, a telephone and subsidized meals to a bunch of self-important windbags and busybodies who suddenly find people taking them seriously because they've go the letters 'MP' after the their name.
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What amazes me after reading all the posts (and agreeing with them!)is WHY did we vote him back in? 
Anybody, any party would have been better. WHY WHY WHY?? Its the biggest self hack in history.
Anybody, any party would have been better. WHY WHY WHY?? Its the biggest self hack in history.
Tigs2,
Simple really, more people disagreed with you than agreed with you! This board, and the serving and ex-serving folk on it are not indicative of the population of this country, you are a minority, and a very small minority.
Also, the fact that there is no decent or credible alternative is the more worrying factor. I am very firmly left of centre in my political views but I am NO fan of Blair, as a trawl of my posts will reveal. The fact that there IS no credible alternative is a huge condemmnation of the political sterility at large right now and very very sad.
Simple really, more people disagreed with you than agreed with you! This board, and the serving and ex-serving folk on it are not indicative of the population of this country, you are a minority, and a very small minority.
Also, the fact that there is no decent or credible alternative is the more worrying factor. I am very firmly left of centre in my political views but I am NO fan of Blair, as a trawl of my posts will reveal. The fact that there IS no credible alternative is a huge condemmnation of the political sterility at large right now and very very sad.
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All those stupid guys who joined the armed forces to kill, (not defend UK as it is NOT threatened) will be Depleted Uraniumed as soon as tey arrive in Iraq. Bout a five year death sentence without reprieve. What you sowed, you shall reap.
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And dont tell me about joining the forces to save UK from terrs. The Cambridge Evening News interviewed an injured survivor of the London blasts, who saw NO ONE at the blast location. The metal around the blast hole was bent UPWARDS. The policemean escorting him off, told hime to walk carefully round the jagged edges. It just happened that an Israeli company does the UG security and the cameras just happened to be OFF at blast time. Now they found bomb making stuf. What a load of BS to keep you cowering.
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This is the same BS as a skinny arab who couldnt solo a cessna 172 with 600 hours in his logbok, commandeering a boeing, on which he had no booking, with box cutters, flying down the usa/canada corridor were norad and faa have no coverage, KNOWING he would not be intercepted, finding the fiveagon, doing a 280 degree descending turn at 500 mph, selecting the naval intel section, skimming across the lawn at 2 feet, exploding the 500 kilo explosives we always carry in the nose cone, taking the whole ship through a ten foot hole without marking from engines or tail on the building, vapourising all the part numbers on every component, still leaving behind 100 plus DNAs for evidence,which are destroyed normally at 100 degrees etc etc ad nauseum.
Last edited by ThomasT; 2nd Jun 2006 at 15:29.
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Confucius him say.. truth very upsetting, better stay with our conspiracy theories about terrs. everywhere, as they make us scared. We join up now fight them. Anybody no like our ideals must be tit. Confucius him say ''round asnd round goes the big wheel.' He right. He bomb civilians, the DU he dp bomb his lungs.
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Originally Posted by ThomasT
This is the same BS as a skinny arab who couldnt solo a cessna 172 with 600 hours in his logbok, commandeering a boeing, on which he had no booking, with box cutters, flying down the usa/canada corridor were norad and faa have no coverage, KNOWING he would not be intercepted, finding the fiveagon, doing a 280 degree descending turn at 500 mph, selecting the naval intel section, skimming across the lawn at 2 feet, exploding the 500 kilo explosives we always carry in the nose cone, taking the whole ship through a ten foot hole withpout marking from engines or tail on the building, vapourising all the part numbers on every component, still leaving behiong 100 plus DNAs for evidence,which are destroyed normally at 199 dereess etc etc ad nauseum.
>>>>>>Here<<<<<<<<
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Nah, not lost, just needs to be inserted here. It was also relevant at the Kennedy crash into-the sea post as that was an execution from the same demented bunch who gave you nine one one, and madrid and london-.and Iraq, which is going well., as Iraq is to keep oil high, build big bases near Iran, to subdivide the country into 3, and to stop them trading oil in euros.
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OK Thomas, I'll bite. I'm in a bad mood today anyway, so what the hell.
All those people who joined the forces (certainly UK, US, all non-conscripting NATO countries) did so in order to defend democracy. Their right to freedom. That's what they signed up for, voluntarily. They may have had personal agendas (learn to fly/drive/fix things/cook(!)/stack blankets), but they all signed up for the overriding prinicple of defence.
And yes, some people probably did join with bloodlust in mind. But I'll guarantee you that either they changed their mind by the end of training, or didnt make the end of training.
I see you live in Vienna. Bit of a mixed bag of history there. Everything from Imperialism through Nazism, Communist uprisings, neutrality to democracy.
Good luck on here trying to attack our ethos anyway. You'll need it.
All those people who joined the forces (certainly UK, US, all non-conscripting NATO countries) did so in order to defend democracy. Their right to freedom. That's what they signed up for, voluntarily. They may have had personal agendas (learn to fly/drive/fix things/cook(!)/stack blankets), but they all signed up for the overriding prinicple of defence.
And yes, some people probably did join with bloodlust in mind. But I'll guarantee you that either they changed their mind by the end of training, or didnt make the end of training.
I see you live in Vienna. Bit of a mixed bag of history there. Everything from Imperialism through Nazism, Communist uprisings, neutrality to democracy.
Good luck on here trying to attack our ethos anyway. You'll need it.
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While writing my post, I note there's been several others.
In 1999 I visited NYC. Two beautiful gleaming silver towers dominating the skyline.
In 2002, I revisited. Towers not there any more.
In Jan 2006 I visited again, and happened past the site, just a big hole in the ground.
I'm afraid the conspiracy theory does not hold water for me.
My eyes do not lie.
In 1999 I visited NYC. Two beautiful gleaming silver towers dominating the skyline.
In 2002, I revisited. Towers not there any more.
In Jan 2006 I visited again, and happened past the site, just a big hole in the ground.
I'm afraid the conspiracy theory does not hold water for me.
My eyes do not lie.
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I lived here only a few years, roadster, but I am from Kenya and Hong Kong, Brit citizen, chew on that one... Seems most on this forum only digest b(BS)c or sewerNN. Try rense.com for a different view of freedom democracy etc. re your views on these arabs, go and read rense and then come back in a week. You may find the conspiuracy theory is the official version. And why havent you challenged a single point on my essay re the fivagon boeing??? All based on photographic, eyewitness, and radar data...and why does the FBI refuse to hand over the remaining 84 security tapes in their possession??