Military back-up refused for strike by firefighters
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You do have to wonder why it is that the fire service's own figures show that over 40 people apply for each vacancy. No full-time fire service is undermanned. Compare and contrast with any of the three Armed Services.
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Fg Off Max Stout,
Are you really saying that as a pilot (with flying pay) you get less than £30K? If you are, you're being done!
My point is, you get paid to do a job that you would otherwise regard as a good hobby! Now, I don't mean that detramentally, I'm sure you do a hard job, but some would also say all you do is sit around on your arse all day (albeit strapped to a helicopter!!). Do you know anybody who would like to run into a collapsing burning building for a hobby??
And anyway, I doubt whether you actually "played fireman" and put out fires but rather manned a control centre or suchlike.
However, this is all getting off the point. Yes, I'm sure there are some very leftwing fireman, but the vast majority of Mr and Mrs average firefighters are behind these actions because they believe that at the end of the day there will be a drop in services if the government get their way. Oh, and some firefighters went on strike before because the pay rise that was finally agreed to after they were beaten down was subsequently lowered just before they were due to get it!!
Are you really saying that as a pilot (with flying pay) you get less than £30K? If you are, you're being done!
Yes, I thoroughly enjoy flying and I don't particularly enjoy playing firemen. Neither do I grumble about the fact that I could get paid up to about 5 times more doing it commercially. What's your point?
And anyway, I doubt whether you actually "played fireman" and put out fires but rather manned a control centre or suchlike.
However, this is all getting off the point. Yes, I'm sure there are some very leftwing fireman, but the vast majority of Mr and Mrs average firefighters are behind these actions because they believe that at the end of the day there will be a drop in services if the government get their way. Oh, and some firefighters went on strike before because the pay rise that was finally agreed to after they were beaten down was subsequently lowered just before they were due to get it!!
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16% is still an astronomical pay rise in anybody's book!
And all that for sitting on their arses doing nothing (quite literally) for 90% of their time on duty, which is only 50% of the time (4 on 4 off) - 90% of 50% is not alot...
Comparisons with Tube drivers are pointless - thanks to arch-trotskiite Red Ken, they get paid a small fortune for sitting there all day and pushing 2 buttons - one marked "GO", the other "STOP".
And all that for sitting on their arses doing nothing (quite literally) for 90% of their time on duty, which is only 50% of the time (4 on 4 off) - 90% of 50% is not alot...
Comparisons with Tube drivers are pointless - thanks to arch-trotskiite Red Ken, they get paid a small fortune for sitting there all day and pushing 2 buttons - one marked "GO", the other "STOP".
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TheInquisitor,
Where did you get 16% from?
According to the link below (from Aug 2005), all members got 3.4% except for some managers who got up to 4.7%!
http://www.fbu.org.uk/newspress/ffma..._aug_05_p4.pdf
Where did you get 16% from?
According to the link below (from Aug 2005), all members got 3.4% except for some managers who got up to 4.7%!
http://www.fbu.org.uk/newspress/ffma..._aug_05_p4.pdf
Inter Arma Enim Silentius Lex Legis
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I think that a lot of the problems stem from how you guys who are serving view yourselves. You are extremely over worked, under resourced, receive minuscule pay rises and are completely powerless to change your fortunes. But you would be surprised at just how many industries are awarding large pay rises. 16% is more than the 12% I got this year but a lot less than the MP's got I believe.
As for the ignorance of what tube drivers actually do well what can I say??
The Forces are suffering precisely because you cannot strike or be represented at any level. If we couldn't strike out here then it wouldn't be long before we were back to the dark days of being paid in tokens which could only be exchanged for goods in the companies own shops. That would apply to private and public sector jobs. Remember that a union is run democratically and it always takes a majority vote of members before action can be taken.
Since the kind and gentle Mrs T ripped the heart out of our green and pleasant land the me, me, me culture is all that matters now. What's in it for me and I'm alright jack still flourishes on the shop floor. So of course the average fireman is in it just for a paycheck! What else would he do it for?
Your sense of duty and willingness to serve no matter how bad things get, are what sets the Military apart from the rest of us and is exactly why you are being so successfully exploited by Mr Bliar and co.
One final point, that man of upstanding integrity Mr Prescott has had his fingers in the Fire Brigade dispute for some time now. He hasn't helped matters at all!!
As for the ignorance of what tube drivers actually do well what can I say??
The Forces are suffering precisely because you cannot strike or be represented at any level. If we couldn't strike out here then it wouldn't be long before we were back to the dark days of being paid in tokens which could only be exchanged for goods in the companies own shops. That would apply to private and public sector jobs. Remember that a union is run democratically and it always takes a majority vote of members before action can be taken.
Since the kind and gentle Mrs T ripped the heart out of our green and pleasant land the me, me, me culture is all that matters now. What's in it for me and I'm alright jack still flourishes on the shop floor. So of course the average fireman is in it just for a paycheck! What else would he do it for?
Your sense of duty and willingness to serve no matter how bad things get, are what sets the Military apart from the rest of us and is exactly why you are being so successfully exploited by Mr Bliar and co.
One final point, that man of upstanding integrity Mr Prescott has had his fingers in the Fire Brigade dispute for some time now. He hasn't helped matters at all!!
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Originally Posted by CashMachine
Fg Off Max Stout,
Are you really saying that as a pilot (with flying pay) you get less than £30K? If you are, you're being done!
Are you really saying that as a pilot (with flying pay) you get less than £30K? If you are, you're being done!
Originally Posted by Fg Off Max Stout
I worked with many junior ranks who earned very much less than the £30k the firemen wanted, were hanging out of their arses from all their operational commitments and then had to retrain to spend months away from home putting out burning stolen cars with 50 year old equipment.
Originally Posted by Roadster
They could be revered as heroes too. Just like the Armed Forces.
The US Forces have a far better understanding, support, goodwill of their communities than we in the UK have, I have seen our standing in the community fall, with all this PC rubbish. If we stand up in the community we are at liberty of being pilloried, due to the use of the Forces as a political tool.
Not having a go at our Lords and Masters there, as we are the ultimate Political Tool. But we have to be used sparingly, especially in todays climate of overstreach.
Below the Glidepath - not correcting
Whatever the colour of your politics, it is a real tragedy when once again individuals who routinely go into harms way for the General Public in the normal course of their duties can so easily be cast in this role of "Trotsky agitators". What on earth could possess the FBU leadership to so repeatedly and predictably go down this path, and why does the Government seem to revel in making martyrs (sometimes literally) of the long suffering public in order to prove they won't be cowed by this type of behaviour. It's the most pointless Dick-Dance in the calendar, but before you all throw another Fireman on the brazier, you might want to start with the FBU leadership (there's an oxymoron, right there) and those who execute such asinine Goverment policy, all at the public's expense, in both Pounds sterling and lives.
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In answer to your question Cash, at the time, a few years back, as a relatively junior Fg Off on lowest rate flying pay, I was not earning the £30k that the firemen were striking for. The attitude of the FBU p1ssed me off immensely and I believe they really showed off their true colours - a total disregard for the safety of the public, a hatred for the servicemen who had to pick up the pieces and a desire only to maintain and further improve their own already very good conditions, at the expense of other more stretched areas of public spending (mentioning no names). What is more, firemen have shown themselves to be more prone to strike action than any other workers since the miners. It seems that if they get hob-nobs instead of jammy dodgers, it's "Out, brothers, out" to destroy the evils of capitalism and enforce a global workers' party.
Although I was not burning rubber in a GeeGee, I attended many fires in my role and had a great deal of sympathy especially for the more junior servicemen who were being directly taken advantage of by the firemen. Those that didn't use the strike time to attend their second jobs, sat on the picket line preventing the use of their engines and giving the finger to any passing servicemen. People died because the FBU demanded that their members, who (despite playing an important role in society) are effectively manual labourers, should receive a white collar professional's salary. The firemen's prescottian leader, Gilchrist, showed himself to be an illiterate, malicious, socialist thug who was wilfully supported by the FBU membership purely on account of the riches he promised. He pursued his socialist agenda at the expense of public lives. Working on FRESCO opened my eyes to some realities, and I lost almost all my respect for British firemen that winter.
Although I was not burning rubber in a GeeGee, I attended many fires in my role and had a great deal of sympathy especially for the more junior servicemen who were being directly taken advantage of by the firemen. Those that didn't use the strike time to attend their second jobs, sat on the picket line preventing the use of their engines and giving the finger to any passing servicemen. People died because the FBU demanded that their members, who (despite playing an important role in society) are effectively manual labourers, should receive a white collar professional's salary. The firemen's prescottian leader, Gilchrist, showed himself to be an illiterate, malicious, socialist thug who was wilfully supported by the FBU membership purely on account of the riches he promised. He pursued his socialist agenda at the expense of public lives. Working on FRESCO opened my eyes to some realities, and I lost almost all my respect for British firemen that winter.
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Originally Posted by The Gorilla
Since the kind and gentle Mrs T ripped the heart out of our green and pleasant land the me, me, me culture is all that matters now.
The Conservative government of 1979 set about cutting out this disease in our society. On the day of her election success, Mrs Thatcher gave the police a 12% pay rise. The new government took on, and defeated the unions.
The UK then boomed. Inward investment. Divestiture of unprofitable business. No, we dont make cars or mine coal, because we are too affluent to have people go down pits for the little money (pittance!) that would be required to be competitive.
Let's also not forget that this is what the country desired. The Thatcher government won by a landslide in 1979, and then was reelected four years later. The dinosaurial Labour Party, with the likes of Michael Foot in charge were unelectable.
The modernisation of the Labour Party under Smith, Blair and Brown was very necessary for them. Now there are only shades of Conservatism. Old habits die hard though, and the "New Labour" policies are not Conservative enough, whilst the Conservative Party itself has had a string of successive poor leaders.
Time for the FBU to move with the times also.
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Almost_done,
I think you must have overlooked this bit then!
Fg Off Max Stout,
Appologies if you weren't earning that much at the time, I'll check tomorrow to see how much you would have been earning!
However, lets get back to the original post. Is it the case that the government won't supply service personnel or simply can't anymore!!
In fact, at the time, the firemen were striking for more pay than I received as a front line support helicopter pilot.
Fg Off Max Stout,
Appologies if you weren't earning that much at the time, I'll check tomorrow to see how much you would have been earning!
However, lets get back to the original post. Is it the case that the government won't supply service personnel or simply can't anymore!!
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My two penneth
Right,
Let me throw my penny in ,
I had worked in the fire service for 9 years, devoting approx 5 out of 7 days per week "on call" 24 hrs per day,my total yearly gross was approx 8 grand, this involved taking TWO CARS to the park when out with the family in case i got called out, i had 4 minutes to reach the fire station when required at "ANY" time day/ night, regardless of whether i was deeply involved with a bit of luvvin with the wife at the time
or anything else come to think of it (ANYTHING ELSE), i watched as my kids grew up, and decided i needed a decent pension, SO what did i do?
I went on strike, not because i was a militant but because the government refused to increase my pay to a decent level, as a result i had to have a second job, but here`s the catch, in order to "serve my community" i couldnt take any ole job oh no, i had to take one that allowed a "suitable level of hours" on call, this in turn meant I had to accept a lower paid job than normal to meet this, thus i found aviation.
I move on , as i reached thirty i decided that i needed to support my family more,and amongst all else, i decided that i could EITHER
1) stay where i was and have no pension
2) pay for a private pension
3) P*** off and join something with better prospects (and a pension)
I left the fire service after the government decided "that part time firefighters do not qualify for a pension"
I now have a job i enjoy just as much for more money than i had before between both jobs combined (full & part time) and guess what, (i retire at 55)
I get home and can do the simple things in life
1) walk to the shops with the kids
2) have a bath without interruptions
3) go and get wan***** if i fancy it and not feel guilty that i "aint on call"
I cherish these things, but above all else can state from my experience that whilst squaddies are working their sox off , firefighters do an equally hazardous (albeit in different areas) job, i myself am faced with danger at times in my place of work.
but please dont slate the firefighters who at the time of writing have a lawful right to strike, and strike they will
Let me throw my penny in ,
I had worked in the fire service for 9 years, devoting approx 5 out of 7 days per week "on call" 24 hrs per day,my total yearly gross was approx 8 grand, this involved taking TWO CARS to the park when out with the family in case i got called out, i had 4 minutes to reach the fire station when required at "ANY" time day/ night, regardless of whether i was deeply involved with a bit of luvvin with the wife at the time
or anything else come to think of it (ANYTHING ELSE), i watched as my kids grew up, and decided i needed a decent pension, SO what did i do?I went on strike, not because i was a militant but because the government refused to increase my pay to a decent level, as a result i had to have a second job, but here`s the catch, in order to "serve my community" i couldnt take any ole job oh no, i had to take one that allowed a "suitable level of hours" on call, this in turn meant I had to accept a lower paid job than normal to meet this, thus i found aviation.
I move on , as i reached thirty i decided that i needed to support my family more,and amongst all else, i decided that i could EITHER
1) stay where i was and have no pension
2) pay for a private pension
3) P*** off and join something with better prospects (and a pension)
I left the fire service after the government decided "that part time firefighters do not qualify for a pension"
I now have a job i enjoy just as much for more money than i had before between both jobs combined (full & part time) and guess what, (i retire at 55)
I get home and can do the simple things in life
1) walk to the shops with the kids
2) have a bath without interruptions
3) go and get wan***** if i fancy it and not feel guilty that i "aint on call"
I cherish these things, but above all else can state from my experience that whilst squaddies are working their sox off , firefighters do an equally hazardous (albeit in different areas) job, i myself am faced with danger at times in my place of work.
but please dont slate the firefighters who at the time of writing have a lawful right to strike, and strike they will
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CashMonkey,
Look up whatever pay data you want to try to divert the argument.
The fireshirkers are using peoples lives as a bargaining chip in their pay negotiations.
Do you agree with that?
Colonel Mustard,
Which one of the 40 applicants for your position got the job?
Look up whatever pay data you want to try to divert the argument.
The fireshirkers are using peoples lives as a bargaining chip in their pay negotiations.
Do you agree with that?
Colonel Mustard,
Which one of the 40 applicants for your position got the job?
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Originally Posted by CashMachine
Almost_done,
I think you must have overlooked this bit then!
I think you must have overlooked this bit then!
must drink more beer
However I think the issue is should we cover for the Firefighters
or should they and the Police as we do not have any right to strike over pay and conditions?
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Originally Posted by Colonal Mustard
Right,
I cherish these things, but above all else can state from my experience that whilst squaddies are working their sox off , firefighters do an equally hazardous (albeit in different areas) job, i myself am faced with danger at times in my place of work.
I cherish these things, but above all else can state from my experience that whilst squaddies are working their sox off , firefighters do an equally hazardous (albeit in different areas) job, i myself am faced with danger at times in my place of work.
I can't, however, subscribe to the view that military life and firefighting are equally hazardous. Firefighters put themselves into risky situations which are by their nature, unpredictable, and those that die, do so accidentally.
Military men put themselves into risky situations which are by their nature, unpredictable, and those that die, do so because the enemy deliberately targets them.
No-one tries to deliberately kill firemen. I don't question their bravery when they are at work, but they are not comparable levels of hazard.
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Originally Posted by Controversial Tim
CashMonkey,
Colonel Mustard,
Which one of the 40 applicants for your position got the job?
Colonel Mustard,
Which one of the 40 applicants for your position got the job?
Number 40, out of the other 39, 25 werent fit enough, 10 failed the claustraphobic test and the others remaining decided not to take up the offer after realising how much they would be on strike without pay ,the 40th felt compelled to accept as no one else wanted to do it.
by the way, in keeping with the thread, i cant believe the government arent covering the reduction in cover.
We are talking about people (losest sense) who to there own ends did not care that the country was about to go to war.
Thats unforgivable and whatever else happens, I will not forgive them. Op Fiasco was a nightmare from the start and you can dress it up all you like.
The bu***** deserve nothing. Bunch of idling failed army types who want to sleep on nights. And that wether they like it or not was what this is all about.
I hope noone in this country supports them... they deserve nothing.
Thats unforgivable and whatever else happens, I will not forgive them. Op Fiasco was a nightmare from the start and you can dress it up all you like.
The bu***** deserve nothing. Bunch of idling failed army types who want to sleep on nights. And that wether they like it or not was what this is all about.
I hope noone in this country supports them... they deserve nothing.
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Almost_done,
Sorry, picking on you again.
- I don't think WE have an option!
Controversial Tim,
On the contrary, I'm trying to put some FACTS into this argument. Why let a little thing like the truth get in the way of a good rumour, eh!
Some people on this thread are taking things very personally. The firefighters are taking perfectly legal industrial action against their employers backed by a majority vote from their union membership (you'll probably find that more firefighters voted for strike action than people voted for this sh** government (34% of the electorate??)). A basic democratic right that we in the military are here to defend. The GOVERNMENT decided to send in the overstretched military to cover.
I'm sure that most, if not all, firefighters cared that the country was going to war skeleton !!
Sorry, picking on you again.
However I think the issue is should we cover for the Firefighters
Controversial Tim,
Look up whatever pay data you want to try to divert the argument.
Some people on this thread are taking things very personally. The firefighters are taking perfectly legal industrial action against their employers backed by a majority vote from their union membership (you'll probably find that more firefighters voted for strike action than people voted for this sh** government (34% of the electorate??)). A basic democratic right that we in the military are here to defend. The GOVERNMENT decided to send in the overstretched military to cover.
I'm sure that most, if not all, firefighters cared that the country was going to war skeleton
!!
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Originally Posted by Skeleton
We are talking about people (losest sense) who to there own ends did not care that the country was about to go to war.
Thats unforgivable and whatever else happens, I will not forgive them. Op Fiasco was a nightmare from the start and you can dress it up all you like.
The bu***** deserve nothing. Bunch of idling failed army types who want to sleep on nights. And that wether they like it or not was what this is all about.
I hope noone in this country supports them... they deserve nothing.
Thats unforgivable and whatever else happens, I will not forgive them. Op Fiasco was a nightmare from the start and you can dress it up all you like.
The bu***** deserve nothing. Bunch of idling failed army types who want to sleep on nights. And that wether they like it or not was what this is all about.
I hope noone in this country supports them... they deserve nothing.
, your opinion sir, although i do beileve that the fire service derived from the navy, (watch, mess, lines, etc ,red blue and white watch (from the ensign).and i certainly remember working (on nights i add between 0000 and 0400 on jobs with highly decorated falkland vets (ex army)who wouldnt think twice about saving you irrespective of what you say.
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Originally Posted by CashMachine
The firefighters are taking perfectly legal industrial action against their employers backed by a majority vote from their union membership
I don't mean to be facetious. I think the real issue is whether firefighters ought to have the right to withdraw their services.
I say no.
Roadstar....
They did.....
As this country was getting ready to go to war!!
Mind you getting your mates to honk there horns as you stand by a fire looking hard has a lot to be said for it.
But fooled noone.
W******
They did.....
As this country was getting ready to go to war!!
Mind you getting your mates to honk there horns as you stand by a fire looking hard has a lot to be said for it.
But fooled noone.
W******