Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Military Aviation
Reload this Page >

Future Carrier (Including Costs)

Military Aviation A forum for the professionals who fly military hardware. Also for the backroom boys and girls who support the flying and maintain the equipment, and without whom nothing would ever leave the ground. All armies, navies and air forces of the world equally welcome here.

Future Carrier (Including Costs)

Reply

Old 10th Feb 2018, 13:23
  #4861 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: London/Oxford/New York
Posts: 1,872
George K Lee,

Of course, how true, and very remiss of me!!
pr00ne is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10th Feb 2018, 13:50
  #4862 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Devon
Posts: 2,347
Originally Posted by pr00ne View Post
WEBF,

IT is a 65,000 ton collection of steel, alloys, plastic, systems and fluids, crewed by males and females.

So just why do you think it is female? It does NOT have a gender!
Centuries of nautical tradition is that ships are female. The linked pages from the RN site use terms such as 'she' and 'her'.
WE Branch Fanatic is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old 10th Feb 2018, 14:26
  #4863 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 248
If you struggle with that, you'll love the fact that Prince of Wales will be a she too . Perhaps they're better described as trans - in keeping with the times...
Frostchamber is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10th Feb 2018, 22:37
  #4864 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: NEW YORK
Posts: 301
Originally Posted by WE Branch Fanatic View Post
Centuries of nautical tradition is that ships are female. The linked pages from the RN site use terms such as 'she' and 'her'.
The opposite is true in French.
etudiant is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 13th Feb 2018, 15:12
  #4865 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: EGDC
Posts: 6,676
Actually, exceptions are often made for crabs and (some) WAFUs.
so the RN are happy to be referred to as 'she' and you make exceptions that crabs and some WAFUs are 'he' - seems fair to me for a force that says 'It doesn't count after more than 2 days at sea' ducky
crab@SAAvn.co.uk is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 14th Feb 2018, 11:06
  #4866 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: The sunny South
Posts: 685
From the UK Defence Journal website:
HMS Queen Elizabeth departs Gibraltar
FODPlod is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 14th Feb 2018, 13:06
  #4867 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Penryn, Cornwall
Age: 73
Posts: 42
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
so the RN are happy to be referred to as 'she' and you make exceptions that crabs and some WAFUs are 'he' - seems fair to me for a force that says 'It doesn't count after more than 2 days at sea' ducky
It was a joke, in poor taste, for which I apologise. I've removed it.

It was inspired by a remark that I heard the diminutive, perfectly formed but rather over-estimated Capt Lygo make at the commissioning ceremony of the "real aircraft carrier" Ark Royal in 1970 when he said, "some of you may have noticed as you came over the brow, it is an aircraft carrier". I then realised that normal seamanlike language (let alone precautions) should not be expected of everyone wearing a blue uniform.
idle bystander is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 15th Feb 2018, 04:59
  #4868 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Lon UK
Posts: 237
Airsound WE Branch and George, I stand corrected. It is indeed historically and traditionally ‘she'.

I also apologise to the lady in question. One who deserves respect.

Long may God bless her and all who sail in her.
Brat is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 15th Feb 2018, 13:44
  #4869 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: London, New York, Paris, Moscow.
Posts: 3,331
Originally Posted by FODPlod View Post
From the UK Defence Journal website:
HMS Queen Elizabeth departs Gibraltar
F..kin' BIG innit!!


glad rag is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 16th Feb 2018, 11:24
  #4870 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Southampton
Posts: 65
Superb photo.
Tech Guy is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 16th Feb 2018, 21:21
  #4871 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Oil Capital of Central Scotland
Age: 51
Posts: 415
All I think about when I see pic of the QE leaving Gib is "Give me a ping Vasili - One Ping Only..........."


At the end of the day, it's still one very big basket for an awful lot of very expensive eggs and some dubiety over the ability to man it and all of the support ships (and their capabilities) at the same time. I remain to be convinced that there is a practical use for them and a REAL justification for them as I'm still of the opinion that they came about as a Blair/Brown ego trip.
Can you imagine trying to justify a class of two ships where only one will ever get to go to sea at a time in a commercial operation?

I've had the opportunity over the past few years to watch QE & PoW take shape as I've gone to & from work, and while each is undoubtedly a very capable ship, I think, as a nation, we've lost the plot.

Instead of one very large capital ship (it's 2 hulls, but will only ever be one in use at a time), I think We (as one of the only 2 island nations in Europe) should have looked at series building a range of simple but robust frigate, destroyer and cruiser equivalents to reduce the number of admirals and captains that appear to be permanently desk-bound and increase the number of tasks that can be undertaken at once. After all if you send "The" Carrier, it looks like the best part of half of the remaining RN fleet will need to go with it, all to deal with one task. What happens to flying the flag and display the much vaunted "soft power" [with something to back it up] in the rest of the world?

It's not as if we can rely on the red duster to cover for the white ensign's absence - the days of the UK owned, flagged & manned fleets is gone.

I don't have a solution, I just have the feeling that there needs to be some serious re-thinking about what the extreme levels of technology that goes into the current & planned fleet actually gets us versus what we pay for it and how long we have to use it to get a return on the investment. I think the balance has moved too far away from simple, relatively cheap and flexible equipment that can be turned over every 10-15 years and too far into something horribly complicated, hugely expensive, of unproven capabilities and that needs to be kept in service for half a century to break even. I'd always go for basic technology run by a large number of flexible humans rather than the latest technology with a few humans on board in case the "CTRL+ALT+DEL" button needs to be pressed.

Feel free to disagree or support the above to your heart's content. I doubt there's a real answer anyway.
Donkey497 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 16th Feb 2018, 22:55
  #4872 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Leicestershire, England
Posts: 1,032
Originally Posted by Donkey497 View Post
Can you imagine trying to justify a class of two ships where only one will ever get to go to sea at a time in a commercial operation?
Ridiculous analogy...
A 'commercial operation' is designed to make money/profit, the armed forces are not a 'commercial operation'...

-RP
Rhino power is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 17th Feb 2018, 06:03
  #4873 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: London/Oxford/New York
Posts: 1,872
And they will both be in service at the same time, as commented on by both politicians and the RN.
pr00ne is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 17th Feb 2018, 07:00
  #4874 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: London
Posts: 6,664
They'll officially be "in service" but the 2015 Govt Review only said that "one would be available at all times" .................... the other will be in dock are parked up the way "Bristol" was for years
Heathrow Harry is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old 17th Feb 2018, 07:32
  #4875 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: London/Oxford/New York
Posts: 1,872
It said, and has been clarified many times since, that both would be in service at the same time to guarantee availability of at least one vessel at all times.
pr00ne is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 17th Feb 2018, 09:36
  #4876 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: London
Posts: 6,664
Ahhh - so only one is available.............. the rest is smoke and mirrors

No doubt given the shortage of aircraft and crew the whole lot will have to move home every time they make the other one "available"
Heathrow Harry is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old 17th Feb 2018, 09:41
  #4877 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: London/Oxford/New York
Posts: 1,872
No, you clearly misunderstood, read it again.

Your constant attempts to belittle and malign everything British, Naval and military are becoming extremely tiresome.
pr00ne is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 17th Feb 2018, 13:29
  #4878 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: London, New York, Paris, Moscow.
Posts: 3,331
Originally Posted by Tech Guy View Post
Superb photo.
Yep.

You can see how the rcs reduction design of the superstructure has been carefully crafted out by the chiseled on afterthought of a ski ramp...

glad rag is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 17th Feb 2018, 13:34
  #4879 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: London, New York, Paris, Moscow.
Posts: 3,331
Originally Posted by pr00ne View Post
No, you clearly misunderstood, read it again.

Your constant attempts to belittle and malign everything British, Naval and military are becoming extremely tiresome.
And in the meantime HMS Ocean has been sold for less than half the price of a single F35.

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/news/uk...or-84-million/

By the RN.
glad rag is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 17th Feb 2018, 14:16
  #4880 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: London
Posts: 6,664
pr00ne

I try and see things as they are not as we would wish they are

if you look at my posts you'd have to agree that I am a constant supporter of more money being spent on our armed forces. But that doesn't mean we should spend money (especially when it is very short) on recreating a historic capability at the cost of cutting into what are the core requirements - more T45's, T26's, Astutes, an Ocean replacement - and as ever more helicopters - are what we really need.
Heathrow Harry is online now  
Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy