First Empowered Master post disappears.
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First Empowered Master post disappears.
It would appear that the first Empowered Master Post has now been
dis-established by an Oxon Sqn Commander, despite previous assurances from PMA that the demise of commissioned NCA would not mean the complete removal of NCA from the management chain
Are there any other instances of this occuring or is this, hopefully, just a one off.
PS I fully expect to take a fair bit of stick here from our 2 winged bretheren buy please spare a thought for the loyal and long serving NCA who were promised this situation would never arise before taking the pi@@ tooooo much
dis-established by an Oxon Sqn Commander, despite previous assurances from PMA that the demise of commissioned NCA would not mean the complete removal of NCA from the management chain
Are there any other instances of this occuring or is this, hopefully, just a one off.
PS I fully expect to take a fair bit of stick here from our 2 winged bretheren buy please spare a thought for the loyal and long serving NCA who were promised this situation would never arise before taking the pi@@ tooooo much
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The problem that's always been there since the birth of Empowered Masters, not soooo long ago, is that as soon as they leave the Leaders meeting , the self proclaimed grown-ups, who have done the slightly longer course will say, Mmmmmmmm now what do WE really want to do chaps ?
It always was and still is, cheaper FOFLs, it's purely cost driven,
Those individuals that would prostitute themselves for the posts are fools,
Stinks
Ginge
It always was and still is, cheaper FOFLs, it's purely cost driven,
Those individuals that would prostitute themselves for the posts are fools,
Stinks
Ginge
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Originally Posted by Lied2again
It would appear that the first Empowered Master Post has now been
dis-established by an Oxon Sqn Commander, despite previous assurances from PMA that the demise of commissioned NCA would not mean the complete removal of NCA from the management chain
dis-established by an Oxon Sqn Commander, despite previous assurances from PMA that the demise of commissioned NCA would not mean the complete removal of NCA from the management chain
I've told that an Empowered Master post is next.....so that's back to the kippers then.
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Lied2
Are you referring to the post of CASWO, who is a MACR or WO, appointed by the CAS, to advise him and his dept on problems such as,TOS, living -in SNCO's, deployments, family concerns, pay and allowances, PVR and lots of other grieviances.
Are you referring to the post of CASWO, who is a MACR or WO, appointed by the CAS, to advise him and his dept on problems such as,TOS, living -in SNCO's, deployments, family concerns, pay and allowances, PVR and lots of other grieviances.
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Bouy,
I am referring to the position Crewman Leader, an empowered Master's post that has been scrapped as part of a new Sqn Cdr's management plan.
This means that control of the Sqn crewmen will be devolved to pilot Flt Cdr's, a situation we were promised would never happen, and has removed any direct input from those best placed to nurture and guide young NCA.
I posted to see if this was the beggining of a trend and not simply the inappropriate flexing of a young Wg Cdr's muscles
I am referring to the position Crewman Leader, an empowered Master's post that has been scrapped as part of a new Sqn Cdr's management plan.
This means that control of the Sqn crewmen will be devolved to pilot Flt Cdr's, a situation we were promised would never happen, and has removed any direct input from those best placed to nurture and guide young NCA.
I posted to see if this was the beggining of a trend and not simply the inappropriate flexing of a young Wg Cdr's muscles
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B15,
An Empowered Master is one who has taken over from the old Flt Lt Leaders of NCA sections instead of being Dep Ldr. They are used as a cheaper alternative to Flt Lts as the Air Farce has decided it wants to get rid of ALL Commissioned Rearcrew by 2020 (so they say anyway).
The farce going on in above thread does not surprise me in the least, did we honestly think it wouldn't happen?
Ginge
An Empowered Master is one who has taken over from the old Flt Lt Leaders of NCA sections instead of being Dep Ldr. They are used as a cheaper alternative to Flt Lts as the Air Farce has decided it wants to get rid of ALL Commissioned Rearcrew by 2020 (so they say anyway).
The farce going on in above thread does not surprise me in the least, did we honestly think it wouldn't happen?
Ginge
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I dont think there is a section on any sqn at the secret oxfordshire airbase where there is an empowered Master. There were, but they all seem to of been taken over again, (they didnt last long). Maybe this is a station policy? Is it happening anywhere else? Seems to me that this goes along the same lines as the pyrimid system, that seemed to dissapear as well?
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A Sad Day All Round
Well guys,
This just further proves to everybody that it's all Lies, Lies and Damned Lies that are spewing forth from the bowels of the career management team at Innsworth.
I for one feel both let down and bitter at the descision to further undermine the WSOp branch and especially the ALM fraternity by removing another layer of 'Top Cover' and giving experienced, proven and capable ALMs any further career goals once the have attained MACr rank.
Considering the marked shortfall in manning levels in the ALM world, currently running at over 25% on my sqn, what other incentives are there for ambitious, talented and currently loyal MACr to aim for?
I am also saddened that the individual concerned may now feel that he has been so undermined that he feels it necessary to move on and start afresh elsewhere. A sad loss to the sqn and yet another hack at the ankles of crewman experience levels.
This just further proves to everybody that it's all Lies, Lies and Damned Lies that are spewing forth from the bowels of the career management team at Innsworth.
I for one feel both let down and bitter at the descision to further undermine the WSOp branch and especially the ALM fraternity by removing another layer of 'Top Cover' and giving experienced, proven and capable ALMs any further career goals once the have attained MACr rank.
Considering the marked shortfall in manning levels in the ALM world, currently running at over 25% on my sqn, what other incentives are there for ambitious, talented and currently loyal MACr to aim for?
I am also saddened that the individual concerned may now feel that he has been so undermined that he feels it necessary to move on and start afresh elsewhere. A sad loss to the sqn and yet another hack at the ankles of crewman experience levels.
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Lied2 and Ginger
Thanks
Never heard about Empowered Master before
The Front Line Strategic Kipper fleet has employed Sqn WO's for at least the last 5 years.
They have immediate access to their Sqn Cdr, and their TOR's cover all aspects of discipline and welfare of the Sqn, and they advise the Boss of any problems regardless of rank
I should also mention that Maritime has now reversed the "Pyramid" which is now the the right way up - compared to other fleets! Ha! - How many Master Loadies - Wow! How Many! Never - How Many! Say again - Wow
Thanks
Never heard about Empowered Master before
The Front Line Strategic Kipper fleet has employed Sqn WO's for at least the last 5 years.
They have immediate access to their Sqn Cdr, and their TOR's cover all aspects of discipline and welfare of the Sqn, and they advise the Boss of any problems regardless of rank
I should also mention that Maritime has now reversed the "Pyramid" which is now the the right way up - compared to other fleets! Ha! - How many Master Loadies - Wow! How Many! Never - How Many! Say again - Wow
Innsworth would do well to observe the current situation at the secret SH base in Oxfordshire. 2 Sqns and 2 different ways of leading NCA, which one is working? Ask the guys on the coal face!
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This was not a proper empowered Master post anyway. The concept, driven by the results of the AASS, was that SELECTED individuals would be posted in to fill SO3 or FOFL posts, not only on Sqns but also at HQs and the like. Whilst I do not fully agree with the complete removal of the career opportunities associated with this decision, I do believe that properly selected individuals could successfully fill the posts were they to be allowed to so. By that I mean that the empowered Masters should be treated as SO3s, which was the idea in the first place. After all, the personality involved is more important than the rank. I guess we all know of good/bad NCA leaders -not wishing to hi jack this thread!!!
In my opinion, the empowerment principle has been fudged in concept, certainly on SH. Flight Masters are doing what they have always been employed to do, look after tha NCA on their Flight. A Master selected to fulfil the Leader post should do just that and work for the Sqn 2ic and be an independent voice direct to the Sqn Cdr regarding NCA issues. In turn the Sqn Cdr would be wise to then use any advice given, mindful of the environment in which it is presented.
In my opinion, the empowerment principle has been fudged in concept, certainly on SH. Flight Masters are doing what they have always been employed to do, look after tha NCA on their Flight. A Master selected to fulfil the Leader post should do just that and work for the Sqn 2ic and be an independent voice direct to the Sqn Cdr regarding NCA issues. In turn the Sqn Cdr would be wise to then use any advice given, mindful of the environment in which it is presented.
It is my understanding that Innsworth left the decision as to how empowered MACR are employed to Sqn Cdrs; in fact, if the OCs so desired they could still have FOFLs.
What they really need to do is define the policy, so everyone knows exactly what they are working towards. But then that would require them to put the goal posts on the pitch before they moved them!!
What they really need to do is define the policy, so everyone knows exactly what they are working towards. But then that would require them to put the goal posts on the pitch before they moved them!!
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COULD BE,
Not strictly true, the policy and implementation should have been initiated by those that administered the branch, ie the commissioned types. But, owing to a combination of intransigence and not caring too much about what had happened as their own rug had been pulled, no real direction has been given and, in the main, the transition has been ad hoc. Amongst the SH peoeple however, I understand that a commissioned Crewman fought for and achieved a Master replacing him and his full powers, including representation at Sqn execs (DHFS), perhaps a model for how things should have been and could be done.
As for the remaining JO crewmen, the only reason we have commissioned leaders now, like the dinosaur Sqn in Oxfordshire, is to allow those who have not done so to have a command tour for their career progression. Those that have not done a Leader's tour are not, in my humble opinion, worthy of promotion to sqn ldr.
Not strictly true, the policy and implementation should have been initiated by those that administered the branch, ie the commissioned types. But, owing to a combination of intransigence and not caring too much about what had happened as their own rug had been pulled, no real direction has been given and, in the main, the transition has been ad hoc. Amongst the SH peoeple however, I understand that a commissioned Crewman fought for and achieved a Master replacing him and his full powers, including representation at Sqn execs (DHFS), perhaps a model for how things should have been and could be done.
As for the remaining JO crewmen, the only reason we have commissioned leaders now, like the dinosaur Sqn in Oxfordshire, is to allow those who have not done so to have a command tour for their career progression. Those that have not done a Leader's tour are not, in my humble opinion, worthy of promotion to sqn ldr.
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Buoy 15,
Empowered Master are employed on the Kipper fleet, they were first thought of from the Airmen Aircrew Sustainability Study and were put in place with the Disbanding of 206 and the Sqn restructuring. Hence the posts of WSOp Ldr (EW), WSOp Ldr (ACO) and the Air Eng's had one in place from just before the restructuring, but in all Sqns now. All have the proper PICs associated with them, so a proper established post. The Sqn WO can be any of the Sqn's MACR and is not an established post as such. So maybe your just slightly confused about the term Empowered Masters.
Hope this clears things up.
Empowered Master are employed on the Kipper fleet, they were first thought of from the Airmen Aircrew Sustainability Study and were put in place with the Disbanding of 206 and the Sqn restructuring. Hence the posts of WSOp Ldr (EW), WSOp Ldr (ACO) and the Air Eng's had one in place from just before the restructuring, but in all Sqns now. All have the proper PICs associated with them, so a proper established post. The Sqn WO can be any of the Sqn's MACR and is not an established post as such. So maybe your just slightly confused about the term Empowered Masters.
Hope this clears things up.
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OK,
Let's think, extra responsibilities for few extra (non remuneration) rewards, mmmmmmmmmm How many of the commissioned brethren would sign up for that without the carrot of promotion or enhanced pay?
If it's not good enough for them, it's not good enough for us.
Ginge
Let's think, extra responsibilities for few extra (non remuneration) rewards, mmmmmmmmmm How many of the commissioned brethren would sign up for that without the carrot of promotion or enhanced pay?
If it's not good enough for them, it's not good enough for us.
Ginge