Shooting Down Civilian Airliners
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Shooting Down Civilian Airliners
Now I have been a bit worried ever since 11 September about the legality of a military pilot being tasked to track and shot down an errant commercial airliner.
The scenario I see is a B737 which may or may not have been hi-jacked but is now ignoring all ATC contact and is heading strait for, say, Westminster Palace - a Tornado or some sucg thingy is told to intercept it.
It doesn't respond to any contact including the old 'wing waggles' and someone says shoot it down.
Some young (by my standards) pilot is going to have to do what the Russians did to KA007 and push the button. Now I also imagine that the flaming wreck with hit the ground somewhere in central London, Paris, Brisbane, Berlin or whatever and cause incredible carnage and disruption on the ground.
Seeing we see CAP cover aircraft from time to time over our cities - certainly during the Commonwealth Heads of Governement Meeting in Coolum (Queensland) and when George W visited Canberra one must ask and what happens after you hit the button?
Just wondering.
The scenario I see is a B737 which may or may not have been hi-jacked but is now ignoring all ATC contact and is heading strait for, say, Westminster Palace - a Tornado or some sucg thingy is told to intercept it.
It doesn't respond to any contact including the old 'wing waggles' and someone says shoot it down.
Some young (by my standards) pilot is going to have to do what the Russians did to KA007 and push the button. Now I also imagine that the flaming wreck with hit the ground somewhere in central London, Paris, Brisbane, Berlin or whatever and cause incredible carnage and disruption on the ground.
Seeing we see CAP cover aircraft from time to time over our cities - certainly during the Commonwealth Heads of Governement Meeting in Coolum (Queensland) and when George W visited Canberra one must ask and what happens after you hit the button?
Just wondering.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Shot at over London and keeping it flying until central Brisbane. Now that´s what I call a good bit of flying. Including the refuelling stops on the way. 
My job involves looking at, and practising for, these very events. Suffice to say a lot of time and effort goes in to planning for every possible contingency. The BBC did a nice little piece a few months back on the heirachy involved and the procedures. We, the RAF, are only acting as an aid to Civil Power, National Security as coined from our Spam friends. I am not going to add to that.
One more thing. If it gets to that kind of decision, I can assure you it will not be left to a QWI, FC or ATC. That is a decision that can only be made at the highest levels of Government (whether you like it or not!).
One more thing. If it gets to that kind of decision, I can assure you it will not be left to a QWI, FC or ATC. That is a decision that can only be made at the highest levels of Government (whether you like it or not!).
Well Maggie Thatcher wouldn't have had second thoughts; has Tony Bliar got the b***s to actually make a decision without giving reasons and second choice? I think not somehow.
Yes, the missile motor will fire and the appropriate guidance system will steer it towards its unarmed civilian target.
An IR missile will probably hit an engine.
An active or semi-active missile will probably hit the most radar significant part of the target.
The unarmed civilian aircraft will probably suffer a total in-flight structural failure and will then become uncontrollable. Those passengers not thrown out at the time will then die screaming as the remains of the airliner hit the ground. As will all the terrorists.
The interceptor crew will go home for tea, debrief - and years of lingering self-doubt.
Pompous politicians, media personalities and fat cat lawyers will then debate the incident from nice warm, safe TV studios and offices for the next dozen years or so.
Not very nice, is it?
The alternative is to lock the flight deck door, carry armed sky guards to blow any terrorists away at the first sign of aggression and for the pilots to learn how to fight the aircraft, rather than waste time with any huggy-fluffy 'co-operative' nonsense.
That's what El Al did in the Dawson Field hijacking in the '70s, no terrorist low life scum have dared to try it on with them since.
Only Germany has had the courage to announce that the planned shoot down of civil airliners will never be contemplated over their territiory.
An IR missile will probably hit an engine.
An active or semi-active missile will probably hit the most radar significant part of the target.
The unarmed civilian aircraft will probably suffer a total in-flight structural failure and will then become uncontrollable. Those passengers not thrown out at the time will then die screaming as the remains of the airliner hit the ground. As will all the terrorists.
The interceptor crew will go home for tea, debrief - and years of lingering self-doubt.
Pompous politicians, media personalities and fat cat lawyers will then debate the incident from nice warm, safe TV studios and offices for the next dozen years or so.
Not very nice, is it?
The alternative is to lock the flight deck door, carry armed sky guards to blow any terrorists away at the first sign of aggression and for the pilots to learn how to fight the aircraft, rather than waste time with any huggy-fluffy 'co-operative' nonsense.
That's what El Al did in the Dawson Field hijacking in the '70s, no terrorist low life scum have dared to try it on with them since.
Only Germany has had the courage to announce that the planned shoot down of civil airliners will never be contemplated over their territiory.
Last edited by BEagle; 25th Mar 2006 at 15:36.
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Depends where the shootdown occurred really, but I'd say just as much chance of the pilot landing incourt as any of the passengers, or the drinks cart, or indeed other flaming bits of wreckage...
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The Chardonnay on BA is total crap these days
civobs
No, the aircrew would not end up in court. The procedures and organisations involved are designed not only to get the necessary job done but also to afford protection to those directly involved.
It is not only the pilot who would need to ponder, there are a lot of other people directly involved and my thoughts are also for the ones who have to make the call, not just carry it out.
And despite what certain retired armchair experts may think, this is not a tactical, military led, operation in any way shape or form. The military is an aid to civil powers and very much at the bottom of a very long food chain in this instance.
Again, the BBC programme on this subject was very good at putting things into perspective.
It is not only the pilot who would need to ponder, there are a lot of other people directly involved and my thoughts are also for the ones who have to make the call, not just carry it out.
And despite what certain retired armchair experts may think, this is not a tactical, military led, operation in any way shape or form. The military is an aid to civil powers and very much at the bottom of a very long food chain in this instance.
Again, the BBC programme on this subject was very good at putting things into perspective.
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Interesting debate recently from Germany, where their high courts have reversed an earlier judgement ... so it is now illegal for a German military pilot to shoot down a high-jacked passenger aircraft. Convaluted arguements, but basically they revolve around "dignity even in death" and that a Government does not have the right to kill citizens... even if in so doing so it might save more lives... because it makes them no better than the terrorist (think about the 4th 9/11 aircraft, where the passengers were almost successful in over-powering the high-jackers?) Discuss, answers in less than 500 words by wednesday
PS. having used the words "shoot", "high-jack"(twice), "passenger aircraft", "terrorists" and "death" in this post, I'd just like to say high to the FBI
PS. having used the words "shoot", "high-jack"(twice), "passenger aircraft", "terrorists" and "death" in this post, I'd just like to say high to the FBI