Shooting Down Civilian Airliners
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Originally Posted by jack-oh
In my experiance as an Air trafficer, it is usually F3s who ignore all instructions and head off in totally unexpected directions.
Or don't trust you.
Or both.
(and for my next trick, I become a PPRuNe centurian)
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Threpointfour.
My mother always taught me to say thank you, especially to the pompous, and to idiots and slow children...
Thank you,
NC43
My mother always taught me to say thank you, especially to the pompous, and to idiots and slow children...
Thank you,
NC43
Last edited by nutcracker43; 26th Mar 2006 at 18:23.
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HELP !!!
I think I'm being censored!! My last post on this thread should have been my 100th ... my 'post counter' has just been reset to 2 !!
PPRuNe ... I'm not just a number ..!!
I think I'm being censored!! My last post on this thread should have been my 100th ... my 'post counter' has just been reset to 2 !!
PPRuNe ... I'm not just a number ..!!
Gentleman Aviator
Originally Posted by threepointonefour
My last post on this thread should have been my 100th ... my 'post counter' has just been reset to 2 !!
You are not supposed to mention n*mb*rs of p*sts! (although as they are now displayed...
)..and I made 10 times the mistake you did!
....and see this JB thread....
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Two Words
BEAD WINDOW
This information does not sit comfortably in the public domain, and is about as sensitive as it comes. I honestly believe that anyone who does have a role to play would not be making idle chit chat about it here which leads me to conclude that most here are just fishing/speculating/sensationalising* delete as appropriate.
Moderators, please get rid, ta
BEAD WINDOW
This information does not sit comfortably in the public domain, and is about as sensitive as it comes. I honestly believe that anyone who does have a role to play would not be making idle chit chat about it here which leads me to conclude that most here are just fishing/speculating/sensationalising* delete as appropriate.
Moderators, please get rid, ta
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Dirty S read the thread, if you honestly think anything here is giving useful info to potential enemies etc. then contact the moderators.
Surely the fact that some one has asked the question is not a reason to close down the thread, your will be telling us what to think next
Surely the fact that some one has asked the question is not a reason to close down the thread, your will be telling us what to think next
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Originally Posted by Dirty Sanchez
Care to elaborate boswell? maybe you are in the wrong forum old bean, looking at your profile, cant see what you have to do with "military aircrew", so suggest you poke off back from whence you came
NC43
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SASless,
I can't let that go by. Perhaps not so amazing and unprepared when the evidence and continued denial of information is considered. I'm patient - not long to wait now.
http://www.911truth.org/
Probably what amazes them is how unprepared we were back in 2001.
http://www.911truth.org/
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Thank you all for keeping my post alive.
Although I can't see the relevance of the last few posts.
Dirty Sanchez - I am not a military pilot and don't see the point in you asking people who are not to evacuate this post. I put this issue up here on the Military Aircrew thread because I thought that it would be an issue dear to the hearts of a lot of people including members of the military - not just the people who might have to do the government's bidding.
I am still hopeful that someone will be able to actually address the issue of what is served by having the government kill a lot of their own innocent civilians onboard an aircraft over a major city and possibly many on the ground just to deny the terrorists the pleasure of doing it first.
Its a conundrum.
BTW I see lots of military and airline pilots posting in GA threads and I have no problem because ultimately we are all pilots - just have access to different machinery and have different jobs.
Cheers
Although I can't see the relevance of the last few posts.
Dirty Sanchez - I am not a military pilot and don't see the point in you asking people who are not to evacuate this post. I put this issue up here on the Military Aircrew thread because I thought that it would be an issue dear to the hearts of a lot of people including members of the military - not just the people who might have to do the government's bidding.
I am still hopeful that someone will be able to actually address the issue of what is served by having the government kill a lot of their own innocent civilians onboard an aircraft over a major city and possibly many on the ground just to deny the terrorists the pleasure of doing it first.
Its a conundrum.
BTW I see lots of military and airline pilots posting in GA threads and I have no problem because ultimately we are all pilots - just have access to different machinery and have different jobs.
Cheers
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On reflection
I am quite angry about some (and I state quite deliberately some) military types on this thread suggesting that it is actually inappropriate in a democracy to question government decisions - particularly those of this profound nature.
It is not right that only the 'trained killers' can comment on such an issue.
No one has put any information on this thread which is classified, sensitive or not already available in the popular media.
Some of you guys (I assume that you are all male!) should get a life, get out more and stop reading comics.
OK - thats the first and last time I will get angry.
Cheers
I am quite angry about some (and I state quite deliberately some) military types on this thread suggesting that it is actually inappropriate in a democracy to question government decisions - particularly those of this profound nature.
It is not right that only the 'trained killers' can comment on such an issue.
No one has put any information on this thread which is classified, sensitive or not already available in the popular media.
Some of you guys (I assume that you are all male!) should get a life, get out more and stop reading comics.
OK - thats the first and last time I will get angry.
Cheers
VH-GRUMPY, no-one is trying to take away your right to ask questions although the present incumbents at No10 would probably like to but, what is inappropriate is for people in government service to answer them, when they are not authorised...It is called the Official Secrets Act....That is the point. Speculate all you like, ask whatever you like, but do not criticise me for trying to gag those who should know better!IVAN ROGOV.....Look into my eyes, not around my eyes, but into my eyes...
I agree with that - in this case it is very important that the possibility - however rempote of shooting innocent people and killing them in some attempt to save other innocent people or - save some 'important place' or 'important people' is debated.
I do not understand and I can not understand and have read no argument yet that in any way jusatifies shooting down civilian airliners. Either from an ethical or practical point of view.
Once a government decides it can kill innocent people - we are in a very big hole people.
I do not understand and I can not understand and have read no argument yet that in any way jusatifies shooting down civilian airliners. Either from an ethical or practical point of view.
Once a government decides it can kill innocent people - we are in a very big hole people.
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WIDGER - thanks for responding.
I AM a Commonwealth Public Servant - based in Canberra - I have signed the Official Secrets Act (more than once) - I am been around in these areas for a long time and fully understand the responsibilities. In fact how about 44 years.
It doesn't mean that you pick up your brain and put it in a waste paper basket - I do have the right to ask and express views and all of my government employers have always recognised this. The discussions we have is robust and very enjoyable. I understand why in a frontline operational unit you can't have clowns like me questioning commanding officers' decisions. BTW I come from a military family - my father was RN 1936 - 1950 and RAN 1950 - 1962.
I worked in the (Australian) Prime Minister's Department during the Vietnam war - no one stopped me feeling bad about our involvment or stopped me expressing firm views about the legality or morality of our involvment or attending demonstrations. I am sure that my security file has the appropriate entries though.
I am really concerned that some types involved on thisn website actually think that thinking for oneself is bad for the security or for democracy. Isn't this what we are fighting for?
But then when I worked in the Australian Civilian Aviation Authority (and its earlier manifestations) I worked with a lot of ex-military pilots who didn't quite get IT. But they were always good company and I learned a great deal about piloting from them - I just didn't like their drinking games!
I AM a Commonwealth Public Servant - based in Canberra - I have signed the Official Secrets Act (more than once) - I am been around in these areas for a long time and fully understand the responsibilities. In fact how about 44 years.
It doesn't mean that you pick up your brain and put it in a waste paper basket - I do have the right to ask and express views and all of my government employers have always recognised this. The discussions we have is robust and very enjoyable. I understand why in a frontline operational unit you can't have clowns like me questioning commanding officers' decisions. BTW I come from a military family - my father was RN 1936 - 1950 and RAN 1950 - 1962.
I worked in the (Australian) Prime Minister's Department during the Vietnam war - no one stopped me feeling bad about our involvment or stopped me expressing firm views about the legality or morality of our involvment or attending demonstrations. I am sure that my security file has the appropriate entries though.
I am really concerned that some types involved on thisn website actually think that thinking for oneself is bad for the security or for democracy. Isn't this what we are fighting for?
But then when I worked in the Australian Civilian Aviation Authority (and its earlier manifestations) I worked with a lot of ex-military pilots who didn't quite get IT. But they were always good company and I learned a great deal about piloting from them - I just didn't like their drinking games!
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I dont think anyone is disputing everyones individual right to think for themselves - I'm sure everyone has an opinion on this whether it agrees with yours or not. They just dont want to voice their thoughts on this subject in the public domain. Crewrooms, pubs, etc with people they know and trust then I'm sure they'd be more than happy to. If you look around the site, people are more than happy to use their rights of freedom of speech on such subjects as the Gulf, Nuclear Weapons, Afganistan, etc.
However how about their individual right not to feel like discussing such things in a public forum? They have used their free thought to decide that they are uncomfortable with your tone and continued questioning, especially where its probably something that no serving military person would be comfortable discussing! They have decided for themselves that they dont need to answer your questions if they dont want to.... The power of democracy....
Thats even discounting the security aspect of having professional military personnel discussing sensitive government decisions that would be taken under extreme circumstances, would be outside their influence or control, which they may or may not have to execute, and are purely speculative anyway.
However how about their individual right not to feel like discussing such things in a public forum? They have used their free thought to decide that they are uncomfortable with your tone and continued questioning, especially where its probably something that no serving military person would be comfortable discussing! They have decided for themselves that they dont need to answer your questions if they dont want to.... The power of democracy....
Thats even discounting the security aspect of having professional military personnel discussing sensitive government decisions that would be taken under extreme circumstances, would be outside their influence or control, which they may or may not have to execute, and are purely speculative anyway.