Disillusioned - persuade me to stay?
other side of the pond input
Interesting thread I hope you don't mind the input, after 24 years I woke up and realized I could not make a difference anymore in what I was doing (UH-60 IFE/IP).
And the coffee sucked.
And the coffee sucked.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Interesting though. You get all the nocking copy when you invite the question but the moment someone asks for advice to get in it is given willingly, every encouragement, and rarely any doubts.
Maybe an ulterior motive, get 'em in, train 'em up, and they can have my job?
Used to work the other way round in the old days. If you found a good billet you kept your trap shut and hopped the poster would not notice - lik RAFLO at Hichkam Yup, it existed for a few years on the western reinforcement route. Must have been rough, but someone had to do it.
Maybe an ulterior motive, get 'em in, train 'em up, and they can have my job?
Used to work the other way round in the old days. If you found a good billet you kept your trap shut and hopped the poster would not notice - lik RAFLO at Hichkam Yup, it existed for a few years on the western reinforcement route. Must have been rough, but someone had to do it.
Pilot Officer PPRuNe
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Despite my rather flippant remark at the beginning of the thread, I decided to stay in on PA Spine for several reasons:
I still enjoy the life
I love flying the ac I fly
There are some great people at work and crew room banter is fun
The pension
The grass is no greener (the wife of a friend of mine with a large UK airline described life on sby as just as bad as being married to the RAF)
There are thing I hate about the job like the rushed and poorly thought out JPA... but at least it gives us something to moan about.
Overall... I am happy with my lot
Tonks
I still enjoy the life
I love flying the ac I fly
There are some great people at work and crew room banter is fun
The pension
The grass is no greener (the wife of a friend of mine with a large UK airline described life on sby as just as bad as being married to the RAF)
There are thing I hate about the job like the rushed and poorly thought out JPA... but at least it gives us something to moan about.
Overall... I am happy with my lot
Tonks
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Eagle- Back in the thirties the government was dispatching our servicemen to
the desert to live in tents and fight . Now we have servicemen and women but still use tents! The 'big scrap' at the end of the thirties was quite justified ! Using the current governments rationale of dictators and dangerous regimes we would have attacked Germany in the thirties if there was any sniff of oil being there!
the desert to live in tents and fight . Now we have servicemen and women but still use tents! The 'big scrap' at the end of the thirties was quite justified ! Using the current governments rationale of dictators and dangerous regimes we would have attacked Germany in the thirties if there was any sniff of oil being there!
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Don't bother staying. If you are unhappy now, it is unlikely to get better. Do what your pension tells you and keep one ear out or life in civvy street. They won't miss you and you will be forgotten about quite quickly. You will have some fond memories but few regrets. Life goes on.
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator
Interesting though. You get all the nocking copy when you invite the question but the moment someone asks for advice to get in it is given willingly, every encouragement, and rarely any doubts.
Maybe an ulterior motive, get 'em in, train 'em up, and they can have my job?
Used to work the other way round in the old days. If you found a good billet you kept your trap shut and hopped the poster would not notice - lik RAFLO at Hichkam Yup, it existed for a few years on the western reinforcement route. Must have been rough, but someone had to do it.
Maybe an ulterior motive, get 'em in, train 'em up, and they can have my job?
Used to work the other way round in the old days. If you found a good billet you kept your trap shut and hopped the poster would not notice - lik RAFLO at Hichkam Yup, it existed for a few years on the western reinforcement route. Must have been rough, but someone had to do it.
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Life is what you make of it - in or out.
Had great times.
Having great times.
Will have great times.
I am responsible for all three - no one else - although the Mrs getting me N Arshigh helps lots!
Had great times.
Having great times.
Will have great times.
I am responsible for all three - no one else - although the Mrs getting me N Arshigh helps lots!
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Free Coffee?????
What free coffee? 20-30p a cup from the Klix Machine or you buy your own and get what you pay for if you're lucky to have somewhere to make it. Don't remember it ever being any different - we even had to fight for coffee with lunch.
STH
STH
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As someone who PVRd, I'd still recommend joining to anyone, with the following advice:
Join young and single.
Enjoy it while it lasts.
Keep a view towards civvie street.
As soon as you get married, start planning to leave.
If single and no longer having fun, start planning to leave.
If you are planning a family, get out immediately!
The RAF life (and that of the other Services) is not compatible with family life in modern society. It was more compatible 20 years ago, when family life was different - this is a reflection on society. The overstretch and cutbacks make the situation worse.
Join young and single.
Enjoy it while it lasts.
Keep a view towards civvie street.
As soon as you get married, start planning to leave.
If single and no longer having fun, start planning to leave.
If you are planning a family, get out immediately!
The RAF life (and that of the other Services) is not compatible with family life in modern society. It was more compatible 20 years ago, when family life was different - this is a reflection on society. The overstretch and cutbacks make the situation worse.
I'm with Tonks on this one
The life is still fun - but it isn't what it used to be.
The flying is still fun - but there isn't as much as there used to be.
The perks are there - but they are harder to find than they used to be.
The penny pinching and the loss of 'perks' is a compelte pain in the a***.
I do believe, notwithstanding the black Omegas, that our Airships do not fight for the RAF or stand up to the beancounters/treasury/politicians for fear of losing their next promotion/knighthood.
It is still fun but it is frustrating. Let's face it though if aircrew are not complaining about something then there really is something wrong.
The life is still fun - but it isn't what it used to be.
The flying is still fun - but there isn't as much as there used to be.
The perks are there - but they are harder to find than they used to be.
The penny pinching and the loss of 'perks' is a compelte pain in the a***.
I do believe, notwithstanding the black Omegas, that our Airships do not fight for the RAF or stand up to the beancounters/treasury/politicians for fear of losing their next promotion/knighthood.
It is still fun but it is frustrating. Let's face it though if aircrew are not complaining about something then there really is something wrong.
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Originally Posted by ChezTanker
Hickam, Hawaii was an excellent RAFLO job - rumour has it that it was binned by the last incumbent who had been extended in post.
Oggin
Back in the days when uniform and Landrovers were blue and no-one wore cabbage kit, I was told that the RAFLO Hickam job had always been an aircrew post. Then someone decided to post in a blunty, who promptly recommended that the RAFLO Travis could cover both Western US and Hawaii....
Ar$e!
"I do believe, notwithstanding the black Omegas, that our Airships do not fight for the RAF or stand up to the beancounters/treasury/politicians for fear of losing their next promotion/knighthood."
Had a bit of a Road to Damascus experience, Roly? I'm sure you're right - and don't forget the chiselling little $hits lurking on the buffet boundary for Air W@nk, who will stab anyone in the back in order to pursue their own agenda....
Ar$e!
"I do believe, notwithstanding the black Omegas, that our Airships do not fight for the RAF or stand up to the beancounters/treasury/politicians for fear of losing their next promotion/knighthood."
Had a bit of a Road to Damascus experience, Roly? I'm sure you're right - and don't forget the chiselling little $hits lurking on the buffet boundary for Air W@nk, who will stab anyone in the back in order to pursue their own agenda....
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Life on the outside
The big question to ask is do I want to make a full career out of the RAF, or do I see myself flying outside?
If you are looking at a second career, then start it as soon as possible. If you are under 35, then it is not financially worth the pension, (as you are balancing 17 years of pension against your final 3 years of airline captain's salary)
Timing also plays a big part. At the moment, the big carriers are recruiting heavilly, but who says this will continue. Last year I decided the time was right for me to go, and am now flying longhaul for a major carrier. The RAF wouldn't extend me, I was offered a good job with a £14k payrise - decision made.
Having said that, the grass isn't always lush and green. The RAF has changed, but so has the rest of the world. You will work hard for your money, but will go to nice places, and will know when you are going there.
As for having lots of great mates in the RAF, most of mine left/are leaving anyway! All the pilots I have met in my airline have been top guys so far, plus my crew includes 13 girls!(and the odd Daffyd!).
I had a great time in
I would do it all over again
I am looking forward to a great time out.
Best of luck whatever option you choose.
P-T-G
If you are looking at a second career, then start it as soon as possible. If you are under 35, then it is not financially worth the pension, (as you are balancing 17 years of pension against your final 3 years of airline captain's salary)
Timing also plays a big part. At the moment, the big carriers are recruiting heavilly, but who says this will continue. Last year I decided the time was right for me to go, and am now flying longhaul for a major carrier. The RAF wouldn't extend me, I was offered a good job with a £14k payrise - decision made.
Having said that, the grass isn't always lush and green. The RAF has changed, but so has the rest of the world. You will work hard for your money, but will go to nice places, and will know when you are going there.
As for having lots of great mates in the RAF, most of mine left/are leaving anyway! All the pilots I have met in my airline have been top guys so far, plus my crew includes 13 girls!(and the odd Daffyd!).
I had a great time in
I would do it all over again
I am looking forward to a great time out.
Best of luck whatever option you choose.
P-T-G
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Having read the thread and the similiar threads on the site, I am really interested to know if in your opinions, the RAF still offers a good, worthwhile career to potential applicants, regardless of trade?
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Alexander,
It depends on what an entrant wants from it and what they end up choosing as a trade/branch. For a kid who wants a first job with a bit of beer money, yet still needs a bit of mollycoddling (sp?), the junior ranks will get him/her fed and clothed, while regular privacy invasions under the banner of 'welfare' are included to remind people they are thought of as kids. This continues until an individual leaves or is promoted. For first job experience it's not bad, but the enlisted ranks aren't really a career unless you're short of other ideas/options. (I'm a SNCO btw...)
Separately you can join as an officer. There are certainly benefits, but the cost can be high too; you are expected to act a certain way - often contrary to normal human behaviour, such as eating an apple with a knife and fork or being nice to people you hate. It makes 'them' better than 'us' enlisted lot and far better leaders in battle...apparently. One of the biggest perks to being a officer is instant expertise on most subjects. Combined with a natural ability to talk down to anyone displaying lesser insignia, officers have made the RAF the organisation it is today.
Apart from choosing whether to enter at council estate or superhuman level you also need to decide what you want to do. If you enter as, say, a RAF policeman (enlisted) you'll have no mates and will only get a job at your local cinema when you leave. However, if you join as a pilot you'll not only get to fly, but will be genetically capable of doing anything - running a chess club, signing multi-million pound contracts and even commanding a whole RAF base! No experience necessary! The best bit is if you screw-up or waste money on promotion-enhancing ideas you're unlikely to suffer the consequences as you'll probably have gone by then! After the RAF you'll easily get a job as most people think military officers are like Ben Fogle.
So, in answer to your question - join as an officer, as a pilot. Everyone else is more of a prisoner than an employee.
It depends on what an entrant wants from it and what they end up choosing as a trade/branch. For a kid who wants a first job with a bit of beer money, yet still needs a bit of mollycoddling (sp?), the junior ranks will get him/her fed and clothed, while regular privacy invasions under the banner of 'welfare' are included to remind people they are thought of as kids. This continues until an individual leaves or is promoted. For first job experience it's not bad, but the enlisted ranks aren't really a career unless you're short of other ideas/options. (I'm a SNCO btw...)
Separately you can join as an officer. There are certainly benefits, but the cost can be high too; you are expected to act a certain way - often contrary to normal human behaviour, such as eating an apple with a knife and fork or being nice to people you hate. It makes 'them' better than 'us' enlisted lot and far better leaders in battle...apparently. One of the biggest perks to being a officer is instant expertise on most subjects. Combined with a natural ability to talk down to anyone displaying lesser insignia, officers have made the RAF the organisation it is today.
Apart from choosing whether to enter at council estate or superhuman level you also need to decide what you want to do. If you enter as, say, a RAF policeman (enlisted) you'll have no mates and will only get a job at your local cinema when you leave. However, if you join as a pilot you'll not only get to fly, but will be genetically capable of doing anything - running a chess club, signing multi-million pound contracts and even commanding a whole RAF base! No experience necessary! The best bit is if you screw-up or waste money on promotion-enhancing ideas you're unlikely to suffer the consequences as you'll probably have gone by then! After the RAF you'll easily get a job as most people think military officers are like Ben Fogle.
So, in answer to your question - join as an officer, as a pilot. Everyone else is more of a prisoner than an employee.
Last edited by dallas; 16th Mar 2006 at 10:50.
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I have made a commitment to join the RAF, and have many reasons for doing so. However, I find it very easy with the raw deal the forces gets from the press, and reading so many cons as oppose to pros in forces life, to question whether it is really the right decision. Ultimately I beleive that it is of course since I didn't not beleive everything in the RAF would be great. But all the bad publicity in the press can do nothing for recruitment.
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Alexander
It's worth trying, believe me. Just have your eyes open.
I'd also balance out whatever you read here by saying that Pprune is a anonymous release valve for many frustrated people and won't have many good things to say about the management by its very nature. However, behind the headlines there are many threads detailing the good bits and even the fun!
Provided you don't think too hard about the apparently stupid, petty and mindless changes and re-inventions that keep the less-employed in a job, there is still lots to enjoy. As I said to begin with, it's worth trying.
It's worth trying, believe me. Just have your eyes open.
I'd also balance out whatever you read here by saying that Pprune is a anonymous release valve for many frustrated people and won't have many good things to say about the management by its very nature. However, behind the headlines there are many threads detailing the good bits and even the fun!
Provided you don't think too hard about the apparently stupid, petty and mindless changes and re-inventions that keep the less-employed in a job, there is still lots to enjoy. As I said to begin with, it's worth trying.
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Should I stay or should I go now?
If I go there may be trouble ... if I stay there will be double.
Life's too short ...... thanks to all who replied. I only really spotted one who was unwaiveringly 'FOR'.
Hey ho - the 90's were fun at least.
If I go there may be trouble ... if I stay there will be double.
Life's too short ...... thanks to all who replied. I only really spotted one who was unwaiveringly 'FOR'.
Hey ho - the 90's were fun at least.
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'There are certainly benefits, but the cost can be high too; you are expected to act a certain way - often contrary to normal human behaviour, such as eating an apple with a knife and fork or being nice to people you hate. It makes 'them' better than 'us' enlisted lot and far better leaders in battle...apparently.'
Can't figure out how to put this as a quote. This is rubbish. Officers today can be all sorts of people - eating an apple isn't the key. Trying to motivate people with more work and more commitments, when the social life is less of a bonus is a lot of the issue - but that isn't unique to the military - just a challenge. However, if you are up for it and like working (a lot) and like being involved in some fascinating worlds - then this is a good career. When you reach the limit of what you want/floats your boat - then leave. Don't stick around whingeing. It's that simple. Enjoy!
Can't figure out how to put this as a quote. This is rubbish. Officers today can be all sorts of people - eating an apple isn't the key. Trying to motivate people with more work and more commitments, when the social life is less of a bonus is a lot of the issue - but that isn't unique to the military - just a challenge. However, if you are up for it and like working (a lot) and like being involved in some fascinating worlds - then this is a good career. When you reach the limit of what you want/floats your boat - then leave. Don't stick around whingeing. It's that simple. Enjoy!
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Originally Posted by bird99
When you reach the limit of what you want/floats your boat - then leave. Don't stick around whingeing. It's that simple. Enjoy!
Point is, I am in a lucky position at the moment and DO have a choice and am now certain I'll take it, and whatever comes my way outside. I deserve more, and fully acknowledge that I'm not going to get it, so "so long, and thanks for all the fish (on Friday lunchtime)".