The J vs K Thread. Pacifists keep out.
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FA, my good man, you've missed it completely! 
The point was merely that IF (that's a big IF
) you were to do such a thing, it would be at the expense of the Mk5.
At the time, the concern wasn't fatigue, rather helo-AR & outboard hard points...
I concur - to even talk of swapping wings as a fatigue counter-measure is madness. But that never stopped the MoD before...
I think the microwave might be a suitable substitute for the nav though - keep yer piss.
The point was merely that IF (that's a big IF
) you were to do such a thing, it would be at the expense of the Mk5.At the time, the concern wasn't fatigue, rather helo-AR & outboard hard points...
I concur - to even talk of swapping wings as a fatigue counter-measure is madness. But that never stopped the MoD before...
I think the microwave might be a suitable substitute for the nav though - keep yer piss.
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Originally Posted by Pass-A-Frozo
Wouldn't it make more sense just to get the Mk5 to do the refueling?
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Originally Posted by LunchMonitor
Allegedly that was the plan, but the money was taken away to bolt crap to the Klassic that will never be used enough to get a return on its procurement and engineering costs.
Try directing your opinions as to why a shed load of money is spent on complete trivia in a glossy A4 format and the 101 other blatantly wasteful things anyone reading these threads could quote, instead of equipping all our AT Assets with adequate DAS.
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Wouldn't it make more sense just to get the Mk5 to do the refueling?
Much discussion at the time as to SF mini-fleet follow-on: J-model, A400M, refit Klassic, etc.
So, at the time at least, utilising the Mk5 seemed a bridge too far...
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Originally Posted by US Herk
It was being discussed as long ago as 2002 for the SF mini-fleet. In the end, I believe they paid Marshalls to rebuild the wings on some of them after their abuse in Op BLEED (horrible op name!) and follow-on Ops...
The other reasoning (at least for the SF mini-fleet) was the belief back then that helicopter refuelling was imminent with Mk3 Chinook - the J wings have the outboard hard points under the skin required for the pods.
The Mk5 is a bit of a conundrum - original procurement intentions notwithstanding, it's a short version of a "strat" lifter...since even the Mk4 isn't operating anywhere near it's ceiling limits, flying around w/one less pallet seems even sillier. So if you're going to "borrow" the wings off some, those would be the obvious choice...
The other reasoning (at least for the SF mini-fleet) was the belief back then that helicopter refuelling was imminent with Mk3 Chinook - the J wings have the outboard hard points under the skin required for the pods.
The Mk5 is a bit of a conundrum - original procurement intentions notwithstanding, it's a short version of a "strat" lifter...since even the Mk4 isn't operating anywhere near it's ceiling limits, flying around w/one less pallet seems even sillier. So if you're going to "borrow" the wings off some, those would be the obvious choice...
the hard points for outboard pylons are already in place on the 'k' wings, it would just need the fuel plumbing to be installed.
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the hard points for outboard pylons are already in place on the 'k' wings, it would just need the fuel plumbing to be installed.
I believe there were also fatigue concerns back then as well - I do know some (all?) of the SF mini-fleet received some new wing sections later...
There was also much misinformation/disinformation about what wings the Ks had then as well...that just means confusion. They weren't all the same then...I do know that much.
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Originally Posted by 16 blades
Hadders,
Just attempting to get the thread off in the spirit it was intended, and to take it straight to where it would inevitaby end up! Had somebody posted a similar comment aimed at the K immediately afterwards, I guess we could've wrapped the thread up there and then......
16B
Just attempting to get the thread off in the spirit it was intended, and to take it straight to where it would inevitaby end up! Had somebody posted a similar comment aimed at the K immediately afterwards, I guess we could've wrapped the thread up there and then......
16B
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JAYMANIA
Inability to provide a realistic assessment of ability without including the phrases "if we got the money" or "once we get the right software". See also under "OEU crews only". And our writing is bigger/newer/faster/etc/etc than yours, zzzzzzzzz!
Inability to provide a realistic assessment of ability without including the phrases "if we got the money" or "once we get the right software". See also under "OEU crews only". And our writing is bigger/newer/faster/etc/etc than yours, zzzzzzzzz!
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The difference being Kainophobia is a real word and Jaymania is made up tripe, like most stuff coming out of the K side about the J!
http://www.googlefight.com/index.php...word2=JAYMANIA
http://www.googlefight.com/index.php...word2=JAYMANIA
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Well after looking on Stars recently, i couldnt help but notice that the 'k' had around a third of the pilots that the 'j' does... and most of them were on expeds or leave!!! easy life......
As for serviceability, the 'k' now has an awful record and is broken or being serviced most of the time... hence why we ar always told at engineering meetings that THERE ARE NO K FRAMES AVAILABLE!!!
Thats no frames for iraq, pakistan,afganistan and anywhere else we might go!!!!!!!!!!
Thats also why the OCU isnt taking on any pilots at the moment and for the foreseeable future, AND those guys are coming over to the j!!!!
(but well done to the 'k' SQN'S for doing so well in the CO's cup attendance competition this week, once again proving that you are always here and have the time to train!! welll done.)
As for serviceability, the 'k' now has an awful record and is broken or being serviced most of the time... hence why we ar always told at engineering meetings that THERE ARE NO K FRAMES AVAILABLE!!!
Thats no frames for iraq, pakistan,afganistan and anywhere else we might go!!!!!!!!!!
Thats also why the OCU isnt taking on any pilots at the moment and for the foreseeable future, AND those guys are coming over to the j!!!!
(but well done to the 'k' SQN'S for doing so well in the CO's cup attendance competition this week, once again proving that you are always here and have the time to train!! welll done.)
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Never thought I'd say this.......but I'm so glad that I'm leaving in 2 months so that I don't have to care about you lot bickering any more.
No point having a go at the k aircrew for not having a/c to fly is there? - it's not our fault. We'd fly them if they were available. Love to in fact!
I am fully aware that the j has to cover our unserviceabilities more often than not these days - frustrating for us too, don't you know.
For those of you that crow on about "doing everything that the k does in theatre", well, quite frankly, you don't. It's just that some people do not feel the need to bang on about their jobs. Some of you Wannabies should think about that a bit. Mind you, your amusing jibes do make me laugh
LCP
No point having a go at the k aircrew for not having a/c to fly is there? - it's not our fault. We'd fly them if they were available. Love to in fact!
I am fully aware that the j has to cover our unserviceabilities more often than not these days - frustrating for us too, don't you know.
For those of you that crow on about "doing everything that the k does in theatre", well, quite frankly, you don't. It's just that some people do not feel the need to bang on about their jobs. Some of you Wannabies should think about that a bit. Mind you, your amusing jibes do make me laugh
LCP
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Now then, I can't believe that you're leaving just as this bun fight is getting good Cariad:
'everything the k does in theatre'? - if that involves getting w@@kered in an Aki kebab house on the way, waking up in the morning with shoes covered in Tahini. Living in sub standard sh:te tents in the sand waxing lyrical about the fact that it's just not as good as it used to be, b:tching about Navs, telling bright young things that they should have been here ten years ago, talking the 'when I was in......' talk, slagging off the other fleet to all who'll listen....then yes, we can do that.... ( but we can't make our flight deck stink of p;ss in a manner befitting the 'klassic')
anyhting else I'll get back to you, I'll just go ask 'my mate down the pub'
still no takers on the urinal offers fat albert?
'everything the k does in theatre'? - if that involves getting w@@kered in an Aki kebab house on the way, waking up in the morning with shoes covered in Tahini. Living in sub standard sh:te tents in the sand waxing lyrical about the fact that it's just not as good as it used to be, b:tching about Navs, telling bright young things that they should have been here ten years ago, talking the 'when I was in......' talk, slagging off the other fleet to all who'll listen....then yes, we can do that.... ( but we can't make our flight deck stink of p;ss in a manner befitting the 'klassic')
anyhting else I'll get back to you, I'll just go ask 'my mate down the pub'
still no takers on the urinal offers fat albert?
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Gents (and Laras smellies ?)
By all means have a go at each other, that's why the thread is here, but like the opening post says - keep it public info only!
Although STARS and eng meetings aren't exactly secret, they're not open door either!
?)By all means have a go at each other, that's why the thread is here, but like the opening post says - keep it public info only!
Although STARS and eng meetings aren't exactly secret, they're not open door either!
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Having not seen STARS recently I don't give a d#mn how accurate or not it is. I do recall that quoting airframe availability is a little more sensitive. It was secret at the daily briefings in Laarbruch certainly.
Maybe it's just me.
Maybe it's just me.