Tell me this isn't true?
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Tell me this isn't true?
Evening all,
Last night I had a very pleasant evening in the new mess at Scampton and, whilst having a beer in the bar with a friend, I asked him where the famous painting of Guy Gibson and his dog had gone.
I was horrified to hear that it had been removed from public view because the dog's name had caused offence!
You will understand my utter dismay when I was told that the complainant was not a civilian at all, but a serving airman!
Apparantly the said chap is one of our ethnic minority brethrin, and virtually 'demanded' that the picture be removed as the 4-legged animals name in the title was 'offensive' to him.
Despite my pleadings and persistance, my friend and others in the mess would not confess to it being a wind up.
If this is anything other than a wind up, then the person responsible needs to be taken to one side and have a few lessons in RAF history firmly inscribed in his brain. Likewise, the mess manager et al should be ashamed for allowing an individual to belittle the course of history, and get the picture reinstated pronto!
If it is a wind up, then I shall take myself off and have a good talking to myself, before I enter into a session of self mutilation!
Please tell me this isn't true.....................is it?
Kind regards to all
TSM
Last night I had a very pleasant evening in the new mess at Scampton and, whilst having a beer in the bar with a friend, I asked him where the famous painting of Guy Gibson and his dog had gone.
I was horrified to hear that it had been removed from public view because the dog's name had caused offence!
You will understand my utter dismay when I was told that the complainant was not a civilian at all, but a serving airman!
Apparantly the said chap is one of our ethnic minority brethrin, and virtually 'demanded' that the picture be removed as the 4-legged animals name in the title was 'offensive' to him.
Despite my pleadings and persistance, my friend and others in the mess would not confess to it being a wind up.
If this is anything other than a wind up, then the person responsible needs to be taken to one side and have a few lessons in RAF history firmly inscribed in his brain. Likewise, the mess manager et al should be ashamed for allowing an individual to belittle the course of history, and get the picture reinstated pronto!
If it is a wind up, then I shall take myself off and have a good talking to myself, before I enter into a session of self mutilation!
Please tell me this isn't true.....................is it?
Kind regards to all
TSM
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Sheesh, I do hope this isn't true. I can understand why the word "n****r" would cause offence, but the dog's name "Nigger" is surely something different. We're talking about a different period in history. If we are to censor something as simple as a name because it causes offence, what can we expect next? Republicans to demand we remove portraits of the Queen and Prince Philip?
This smacks of someone making a decision without giving due consideration to the historical context in which the painting was produced. What future, then, for Nigger's grave?
This smacks of someone making a decision without giving due consideration to the historical context in which the painting was produced. What future, then, for Nigger's grave?
From: Chairperson, Federated Unethnical Quangos of Unanimity of the European Union
To: Officers' Mess Manager, RAF Littleton-on-Sea
Brother (Sir is elitist, refer to me as Sister in your reply),
Several items in and around your facility have been highlighted to me under the terms of the Needless Persecution of Customs Act 2001. I hereby provide notice that you are to make the following changes:
1. Firstly, the term "Officers' Mess" is deemed anachronistic, elitist and unfair. Let us not forget the cruelty inflicted by officers on their soldiers during the First World War. The word "Mess" seems to indicate that your young persons are untidy, and this is deemed likely to cause them undue stress and humiliation. Your facility is therefore to be renamed "The Managerial Facility".
2. It has been noted that several paintings in your mess depict members of the so-called "Royal Family". These are clearly offensive to taxpayers and republicans and are to be replaced with pictures of hard-working, ethnically-diverse persons in the sunshine.
3. Likewise the pictures of Spitfires and other machines of war, which are deemed likely to cause offence and distress to our cousins in the so-called "German" province of Europe. Suggested replacements are pictures of a range of flowers from around the world.
4. One of your Managerial Facility guests noted the presence of red roses on the Facility's lawns. These cause offence and trauma to those of Yorkshire extraction and are to be replaced with statues of civil rights leaders and lawyers.
5. Your facility contains a bar. This is offensive to teetotal persons and is to be replaced with a library bearing a selection of books by up-and-coming world authors such as Yann Martel and Haruki Murakami - none of the outmoded, racist bile from the likes of Shakespeare, please. But wasn't Oscar Wilde gay? You can add as many of his books as you like.
Should these demands not be met, you will be prosecuted and sentenced to a five-year break in a pleasent holiday camp called Belmarsh.
Sincerely,
I M Pathetic
FUQU
To: Officers' Mess Manager, RAF Littleton-on-Sea
Brother (Sir is elitist, refer to me as Sister in your reply),
Several items in and around your facility have been highlighted to me under the terms of the Needless Persecution of Customs Act 2001. I hereby provide notice that you are to make the following changes:
1. Firstly, the term "Officers' Mess" is deemed anachronistic, elitist and unfair. Let us not forget the cruelty inflicted by officers on their soldiers during the First World War. The word "Mess" seems to indicate that your young persons are untidy, and this is deemed likely to cause them undue stress and humiliation. Your facility is therefore to be renamed "The Managerial Facility".
2. It has been noted that several paintings in your mess depict members of the so-called "Royal Family". These are clearly offensive to taxpayers and republicans and are to be replaced with pictures of hard-working, ethnically-diverse persons in the sunshine.
3. Likewise the pictures of Spitfires and other machines of war, which are deemed likely to cause offence and distress to our cousins in the so-called "German" province of Europe. Suggested replacements are pictures of a range of flowers from around the world.
4. One of your Managerial Facility guests noted the presence of red roses on the Facility's lawns. These cause offence and trauma to those of Yorkshire extraction and are to be replaced with statues of civil rights leaders and lawyers.
5. Your facility contains a bar. This is offensive to teetotal persons and is to be replaced with a library bearing a selection of books by up-and-coming world authors such as Yann Martel and Haruki Murakami - none of the outmoded, racist bile from the likes of Shakespeare, please. But wasn't Oscar Wilde gay? You can add as many of his books as you like.
Should these demands not be met, you will be prosecuted and sentenced to a five-year break in a pleasent holiday camp called Belmarsh.
Sincerely,
I M Pathetic
FUQU
Last edited by tablet_eraser; 3rd Feb 2006 at 16:09.
Forget about the painting and the grave....what about poor old Nigger? Is he to wind up in a pauper's grave with no headstone or honour for a life well lived? How do you put his name on a gravestone and not offend someone who might happen to mow the grass or stroll by? What's in a name anyway? He responded to it without insult or embarrassment....why should a total stranger have a problem with it?
Is he to become like that famous person in the song....to be removed from place to place anytime a new sewer is needed or there is a stink about having him planted in the turf? Maybe he should be hidden in a woodpile somewhere....and thereby give some credence to that famous suggestion?
Is he to become like that famous person in the song....to be removed from place to place anytime a new sewer is needed or there is a stink about having him planted in the turf? Maybe he should be hidden in a woodpile somewhere....and thereby give some credence to that famous suggestion?
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My old mum (still with us) worked on the Lancs during WWII (Avro factory Manchester) she was a supervisor checking the play at the wing tips. She said to me today, "Where are we now, are we all still British" I had no answer.
DO'L
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If the rumours are true about the planned remake of the Dambusters film, then the rumours that Guy's dogs name will also be changed need to be believed. It's just not PC. 
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I'm sorry but I'm going to play devils advocate here.
The word is offensive and someone complained about it. Therefore something had to be done about it!
What if the dog were called C**t or Paki or Hitler (not that it would have been called Hitler)?
I'm afraid that your reference to "one of our ethnic breterin" speaks volumes as well!
However, I do have a problem with the word nigger. How is it that it is so offensive and yet black rappers use it, sometimes to excess, in some of their songs!! Either it's offensive or it isn't!
The word is offensive and someone complained about it. Therefore something had to be done about it!
What if the dog were called C**t or Paki or Hitler (not that it would have been called Hitler)?
I'm afraid that your reference to "one of our ethnic breterin" speaks volumes as well!
However, I do have a problem with the word nigger. How is it that it is so offensive and yet black rappers use it, sometimes to excess, in some of their songs!! Either it's offensive or it isn't!
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Suppose I in later years, not content with sprogs wreaking havoc around the house, decide that a black lab would be a great addition to the family. Sprog may have seen the original Dambusters film with original references, suggesting 'Nigger' would be a great forename for the latest Aspera family member....Why not? - Its in honour of the big dog himself, sitting on a cloud somewhere in dismay now.
Given that the word 'n****r' is used as a label so frequently now on the radio. television & written media by those who claim to be so offended by it I don't see how naming a dog in a film, according to a character who was every bit associated with the squadron as Guy Gibson himself should be outlawed by the PC brigade.
- Oops CashMachine beat me to the point
Given that the word 'n****r' is used as a label so frequently now on the radio. television & written media by those who claim to be so offended by it I don't see how naming a dog in a film, according to a character who was every bit associated with the squadron as Guy Gibson himself should be outlawed by the PC brigade.
- Oops CashMachine beat me to the point
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I think that this situation needs to be seen in the correct context: Ask yourself whether, back in those days, Guy Gibson deliberately named his faithful dog as he did to deliberately provoke anyone? I think the resounding reply would be "No, he did not!"
So, maybe a compromise would be to re-instate the picture forthwith, and alongside it place a notice to the effect that when Guy Gibson named his dog, he did so with no offence intended whatsoever, because at the time the name 'Nigger' did not have the connotations that sadly it has today.
So, maybe a compromise would be to re-instate the picture forthwith, and alongside it place a notice to the effect that when Guy Gibson named his dog, he did so with no offence intended whatsoever, because at the time the name 'Nigger' did not have the connotations that sadly it has today.
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CM, what a stupid thing to say. That is not playing Devil's Advocate in my view it is playing to the crowd. This is England where I was bought up and when we allowed immigrants to come to this country and not expect us to change so that we fit in with all their beliefs.
I had two dogs in my childhood and both were called Nigger. Both Labs. Somehow they knew which one was which. Probably the tone.
However, we speak of a dog that has passed with his master into recent history and if someone at Scampton is not happy with a picture of a great man on the wall with his beloved dog Nigger beside him. Then bloody tough. The Staish should be shouting in someone's ear by now and telling him what a prat he was. Or perhaps it was the Staish who decreed it should be taken down. If it is all true of course. In which case he she be reported for discrimination against a hero and his pal.
Scampton has a special place in history too, maybe someone up there will think of a good reason to remove the name from the history books. People have to recognise that history took place there - brilliant history and if he doesn't like then pi@@ off!
I just it isn't true but somebody from the famous place will let us know.
I had two dogs in my childhood and both were called Nigger. Both Labs. Somehow they knew which one was which. Probably the tone.
However, we speak of a dog that has passed with his master into recent history and if someone at Scampton is not happy with a picture of a great man on the wall with his beloved dog Nigger beside him. Then bloody tough. The Staish should be shouting in someone's ear by now and telling him what a prat he was. Or perhaps it was the Staish who decreed it should be taken down. If it is all true of course. In which case he she be reported for discrimination against a hero and his pal.
Scampton has a special place in history too, maybe someone up there will think of a good reason to remove the name from the history books. People have to recognise that history took place there - brilliant history and if he doesn't like then pi@@ off!
I just it isn't true but somebody from the famous place will let us know.
Perhaps a compromise could be reached where the painting is put back up with a flap over the dog's name. The flap would be connected to a light in the bar and anybody who lifted the flap would have to buy a round of drinks
A similar idea was used on a fig leaf on a statue in a ladies loo I believe
HF
A similar idea was used on a fig leaf on a statue in a ladies loo I believe
HF
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It's a Black Labrador FFS! I supose if he'd called him 'Coalie', Miners would've been offended?
Should we knock down Belsen and Auswitz and airbrush them out of existence? Cause hell, you'd be hard pressed to come up with something more politically incorrect than them!
No, we don't. We remember the people who died there, why they died and do our damnedest to teach our kids why it was such a bad thing.
History is full of unpleasant things wether we like it or not and trying to alter it to suit modern PCness is crass, idiotic, and a disservice to both those who lived through it and those who'll come after us.
I really hope the staish puts his boot up the arse of the person who took it down.
Should we knock down Belsen and Auswitz and airbrush them out of existence? Cause hell, you'd be hard pressed to come up with something more politically incorrect than them!
No, we don't. We remember the people who died there, why they died and do our damnedest to teach our kids why it was such a bad thing.
History is full of unpleasant things wether we like it or not and trying to alter it to suit modern PCness is crass, idiotic, and a disservice to both those who lived through it and those who'll come after us.
I really hope the staish puts his boot up the arse of the person who took it down.
So, it appears that if something is offensive, just complain and it will be removed regardless of whatever anybody else thinks.
If I were you TSM, I would complain to the PMC that I found the behaviour of whoever complained offensive and would like 'it' removed from the Mess forthwith. I find the ability of a small minority to force their views, values and opinions on the majority offensive. Will anybody do anything to stop it happening in future? I suspect not.
Racism doesn't have any place in the RAF, history however, does; if you don't like it, either man up or find a fluffier organisation to work for. I suggest the French government; they are very good at re-writing history to suit their own purposes.
If I were you TSM, I would complain to the PMC that I found the behaviour of whoever complained offensive and would like 'it' removed from the Mess forthwith. I find the ability of a small minority to force their views, values and opinions on the majority offensive. Will anybody do anything to stop it happening in future? I suspect not.
Racism doesn't have any place in the RAF, history however, does; if you don't like it, either man up or find a fluffier organisation to work for. I suggest the French government; they are very good at re-writing history to suit their own purposes.
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Rakshasa ''It's a Black Labrador FFS! I supose if he'd called him 'Coalie', Miners would've been offended?''
Are we still allowed to say black?? i thought that was offensive too!!
Its good though, as long as we keep giving in to the PC brigade and every minority... for instance, the Danish publish a cartoon about Muhammed.. thats really really terrible.... The muslims storming the EU buildings - fine, Muslims parading on the streets today shouting ''jihad jihad'' - fine , more threats in the streets of england today threatening another 7/7 - fine....
As long as we have our priorities straight..!!
Are we still allowed to say black?? i thought that was offensive too!!
Its good though, as long as we keep giving in to the PC brigade and every minority... for instance, the Danish publish a cartoon about Muhammed.. thats really really terrible.... The muslims storming the EU buildings - fine, Muslims parading on the streets today shouting ''jihad jihad'' - fine , more threats in the streets of england today threatening another 7/7 - fine....
As long as we have our priorities straight..!!
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Oh dear, we had a cat called Pinkie and another Blackie.
What of Black Beauty or the Gay Gordon?
What of Black Beauty or the Gay Gordon?
To think people wonder why I refuse to have any more Labs for buddies....last one was my namesake...."Useless"!
Or Black Pudding, Blackberries, Black Treacle?.
Blackboards are now 'Chalkboards', Black Ice is 'Invisible Ice'.
And If I am to be honest, most of the 'Black' people I know are actually Brown. So why all the fuss?, If no malice or insult is intended, then why is it assumed that someone will take offence, and this is usually by some 'PC' person who has nothing better to do than think of possible insults, and how it may be possible to 'misunderstand' everything that is said.
Blackboards are now 'Chalkboards', Black Ice is 'Invisible Ice'.
And If I am to be honest, most of the 'Black' people I know are actually Brown. So why all the fuss?, If no malice or insult is intended, then why is it assumed that someone will take offence, and this is usually by some 'PC' person who has nothing better to do than think of possible insults, and how it may be possible to 'misunderstand' everything that is said.
My ghast is well and truly flabbered!!
I told the Memsahib about this and she wishes to object. This is a piece of English history and part of RAF tradition. The codeword "Nigger" is part of our heritage and we should be proud of it. These men died for our freedom and the right of free speech. We despair.
I told the Memsahib about this and she wishes to object. This is a piece of English history and part of RAF tradition. The codeword "Nigger" is part of our heritage and we should be proud of it. These men died for our freedom and the right of free speech. We despair.
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Originally Posted by CashMachine
I'm sorry but I'm going to play devils advocate here.
The word is offensive and someone complained about it. Therefore something had to be done about it...........
The word is offensive and someone complained about it. Therefore something had to be done about it...........
The PMC should have said, "Noted" and done bugger all about it.
That picture is up there from bye-gone days, when some prat could not jump on the PC band-waggon.
It was hung there not to cause offense, but a visible reminder of RAF History. If the idiot who complained cannot hack that, then he should not be allowed in the Mess - perhaps some PC excuse could be dreamed up, improperly dressed, walking with intent, too much aftershave!
Let's remind those PC plumbers what it is about: it is slightly off track, but most of us will see the thrust.
England - The Right to Leave Our Country - YOU have the right, the right to leave anytime you want!
If you are claiming off the Social Services just cancel your GIRO.
After England not wanting to offend other cultures by putting up Xmas lights. After hearing that the State of South Australia changed its opinion and let a Muslim woman have her picture on her driver's license with her face covered, this prompted this editorial written (and amended by an English citizen from an Australian citizen's writing; inserting words suitable in the UK).
IMMIGRANTS, NOT BRITISH, MUST ADAPT.
Take It or Leave It. I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on London, we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of British.
However, the dust from the attacks had barely settled when the "politically correct" crowd began complaining about the possibility that our patriotism was offending others. I am not against immigration, nor do I hold a grudge against anyone who is seeking a better life by coming to England.
However, there are a few things that those who have recently come to our country, and apparently some born here, need to understand. This idea of England being a multicultural community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity.
As British, we have our own culture, our own society, our own language and our own lifestyle.
This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom.
We speak ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society, Learn the Language!
Dieu et Mon droit (French, "God and my right") is our National Motto.
This is not some Christian, right wing, political slogan. We adopted this motto because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it in certain places.
If our God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because our God is part of our culture.
If our 'ways' offends you, or you don't like "A Fair Go", then you should seriously consider a move to another part of this planet.
We are happy with our culture and have no desire to change, and we really don't care how you did things where you came from.
This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this.
But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our National Motto, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great British freedom, "THE RIGHT TO LEAVE".
If you aren't happy here then, Foxtrot Oscar! We didn't force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted. Pretty easy really, when you think about it.
-----------------------------------
Get the painting back on the wall........... NO compromise.
TG
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because at the time the name 'Nigger' did not have the connotations that sadly it has today.
And I'm not sure these people would either.
Which is not to say that I think the painting should have been removed, because I don't. Rather I think it would serve everyone better if the this matter were to be referenced within its context. Unfortunately though, that's a lot mre difficult to do than to simply react one way or another.
An opportunity missed perhaps?