Afghanistan Deployment
RayDarr,
As a former weekend warrior myself, I was certainly not taking the p**s, merely expressing admiration for those who will answer the call again, due to the ability of our Govt to commit ever-reducing resources further and further.
As a (sadly) ex-Reservist, it is heartening to see comments like those from FFP. Times have certainly changed since I first donned the light blue (and sometimes green) at weekends 20 years ago.
As a former weekend warrior myself, I was certainly not taking the p**s, merely expressing admiration for those who will answer the call again, due to the ability of our Govt to commit ever-reducing resources further and further.
As a (sadly) ex-Reservist, it is heartening to see comments like those from FFP. Times have certainly changed since I first donned the light blue (and sometimes green) at weekends 20 years ago.
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Does anyone know what happened to the 900 Stinger shoulder launched ground-to-air missiles, formerly gifted to the Mujaheddin (star pupil, Osama Bin Laden) by the CIA in 1986/7, during the ten year fight to repel the Soviets from Afghanistan and, further, does anyone know what would be the effectiveness against modern day Apache AH’s, of any unused Stingers, which might have been seized from Mujaheddin factions and held in storage by the Taleban, between then and now?
Also, why exactly is 16 AAB the correct organisation to select as part of a battle group for the mission plan of “reconstruction and redevelopment” of Afghanistan when it had, hitherto, always been supposed that the Brigade was the “tip of the spear” rather than a blunty garrisoning/engineering/social development outfit.
Does anyone also know if this “reconstruction and redevelopment” is the total brief to the assigned NATO forces and will theatre commanders therefore generate methodology for implementation of this ephemeral brief, ad hoc, depending on situations found on the ground, day-to-day, or is there a detailed plan of campaign to route out specifically identified figures and hold specific locations and ground areas? Or is there something we are not being told (again)?
Finally, can anyone further tell me how the reorganisation (downsizing) of British Army infantry regiments combined with on-track acquisition of the full tranche of Cold War conceived, Typhoon aircraft, is an effective counter to the clear and present danger posed by Al’Quaida/Taleban, especially in our latest adventure in foreign parts, prosecuting the “war on terror”?
Confused - highcirrus.
Also, why exactly is 16 AAB the correct organisation to select as part of a battle group for the mission plan of “reconstruction and redevelopment” of Afghanistan when it had, hitherto, always been supposed that the Brigade was the “tip of the spear” rather than a blunty garrisoning/engineering/social development outfit.
Does anyone also know if this “reconstruction and redevelopment” is the total brief to the assigned NATO forces and will theatre commanders therefore generate methodology for implementation of this ephemeral brief, ad hoc, depending on situations found on the ground, day-to-day, or is there a detailed plan of campaign to route out specifically identified figures and hold specific locations and ground areas? Or is there something we are not being told (again)?
Finally, can anyone further tell me how the reorganisation (downsizing) of British Army infantry regiments combined with on-track acquisition of the full tranche of Cold War conceived, Typhoon aircraft, is an effective counter to the clear and present danger posed by Al’Quaida/Taleban, especially in our latest adventure in foreign parts, prosecuting the “war on terror”?
Confused - highcirrus.
Open source documents will suggest the Stingers are not the problem....later issue Russian made Manpads are.
SA-7's and Stingers are old kit...time lifed batteries that may or may not have been replaced but reports seem to confirm sightings of improved versions Manpads in Afghanistan.
SA-7's and Stingers are old kit...time lifed batteries that may or may not have been replaced but reports seem to confirm sightings of improved versions Manpads in Afghanistan.
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Seems like, for the most part, we got away with Iraq...so far.
Afghanistan is a different deal. They just want to be left alone, albeit to grow poppies; the problem arises when we try and stop them - what are we going to suggest, coffee? The much-admired British squaddie isn't going to be handing out sweets to kids, it appears he's going to be torching the family business.
With Iraq there was a need for change and many of the population agreed. It does appear we're going to Afghanistan with a blurry plan and it could turn desperately nasty in short order.
Nu Labour's arrogance might just have bought us all our own Vietnam.
Afghanistan is a different deal. They just want to be left alone, albeit to grow poppies; the problem arises when we try and stop them - what are we going to suggest, coffee? The much-admired British squaddie isn't going to be handing out sweets to kids, it appears he's going to be torching the family business.
With Iraq there was a need for change and many of the population agreed. It does appear we're going to Afghanistan with a blurry plan and it could turn desperately nasty in short order.
Nu Labour's arrogance might just have bought us all our own Vietnam.
All we have to do is look to our south and see how effective the anti-coca growing project has been in Central and South America. How many Billions of dollars and still the plantations produce the makings for cocaine. The Afghans are a much different breed of cat than the folks down south thus it will be a harder task yet.
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High Cirrus
Perhaps 16 AAB has been selected because they are the tip of the spear and they may be about to be thrown into the eye of the storm. The mission does not appear to be clearly defined (according to unnamed General in the Sunday Telegraph) and 16 AAB can cope with missions from fighting to handing out leaflets.
There are many valid viewpoints, but whatever happens it is those in uniform who have to make it all work.
Perhaps 16 AAB has been selected because they are the tip of the spear and they may be about to be thrown into the eye of the storm. The mission does not appear to be clearly defined (according to unnamed General in the Sunday Telegraph) and 16 AAB can cope with missions from fighting to handing out leaflets.
There are many valid viewpoints, but whatever happens it is those in uniform who have to make it all work.
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I’ve started a re-read of Ahmed Rashid’s definitive work Taliban now that Dubya has once again decided that the Dear Leader had better start pulling his weight in Afghanistan. The book is of especial interest as the back cover carries the message that “Tony Blair’s plans for post-Taliban (2002) Afghanistan are heavily influenced by this book”.
Unfortunately, his reading odyssey does not seem to have been overwhelmingly influential to his current thinking (if any), as the following important messages have apparently been overlooked in the rush to action:
“In the nineteenth century, fearful of an ever expanding Russian empire in Central Asia which might covet Afghanistan for a thrust against Britain’s Indian empire, the British made three separate attempts to conquer and hold Afghanistan until they realised that the intractable Afghans could be bought more easily than fought. The British offered cash subsidies, manipulated the tribal chiefs and managed to turn Afghanistan into a client state.”
“But for the Afghans the Soviet invasion (in 1979) was yet another attempt by outsiders to subdue them and replace their time-honoured religion and society with an alien ideology and social system.”
“Afghanistan has never been subdued by any conquering army since the early Aryan invasions, 6000 years ago. It’s rough, rugged, deserted and arid terrain has produced some of the best fighters the world has ever seen.”
Ahmed Rashid also points out that when the Taliban last imposed a ban on poppy (heroin) production, the street price of heroin in Europe increased tenfold, thus producing an overwhelming demand for the product, which no Afghan farmer, bereft of alternative crop markets, or no local warlord with “troops” to pay and influence to buy, could possibly ignore.
Perhaps it might therefore be worthwhile honing the negotiating, manipulation and bribing skills of the multi-talented 16 AAB (for which organisation I have the greatest respect), rather than have them chasing around an ancient killing ground, at the behest of a muddled, mendacious and politically bankrupt prime minister, shedding more of our blood and treasure, hoping, once again, to fly in the face of the obvious lessons of history. Plus ça change!
Unfortunately, his reading odyssey does not seem to have been overwhelmingly influential to his current thinking (if any), as the following important messages have apparently been overlooked in the rush to action:
“In the nineteenth century, fearful of an ever expanding Russian empire in Central Asia which might covet Afghanistan for a thrust against Britain’s Indian empire, the British made three separate attempts to conquer and hold Afghanistan until they realised that the intractable Afghans could be bought more easily than fought. The British offered cash subsidies, manipulated the tribal chiefs and managed to turn Afghanistan into a client state.”
“But for the Afghans the Soviet invasion (in 1979) was yet another attempt by outsiders to subdue them and replace their time-honoured religion and society with an alien ideology and social system.”
“Afghanistan has never been subdued by any conquering army since the early Aryan invasions, 6000 years ago. It’s rough, rugged, deserted and arid terrain has produced some of the best fighters the world has ever seen.”
Ahmed Rashid also points out that when the Taliban last imposed a ban on poppy (heroin) production, the street price of heroin in Europe increased tenfold, thus producing an overwhelming demand for the product, which no Afghan farmer, bereft of alternative crop markets, or no local warlord with “troops” to pay and influence to buy, could possibly ignore.
Perhaps it might therefore be worthwhile honing the negotiating, manipulation and bribing skills of the multi-talented 16 AAB (for which organisation I have the greatest respect), rather than have them chasing around an ancient killing ground, at the behest of a muddled, mendacious and politically bankrupt prime minister, shedding more of our blood and treasure, hoping, once again, to fly in the face of the obvious lessons of history. Plus ça change!
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BBC Website, 27 Jan 06 Here http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4654736.stm
Unease over Afghan duty
A site popular with soldiers has highlighted some unease at the prospect of UK troops being deployed to Afghanistan later this year.
Members of the unofficial but popular Army Rumour Service (ARRSE) website have been responding to the announcement an extra 3,300 British soldiers are being sent to help with Nato's International Security Assistance Force [Isaf] peace-keeping duties.
One user had a specific message for Defence Secretary John Reid.
"If I have to bull [polish] my boots and carry any mates off the back of a[n RAF] herc[ules] Mr Reid needs to know that I will hold him personally responsible," he writes.
"If it's me being carried then I will have left explicit instructions and half of my life insurance to someone who will avenge me."
Visiting some of the soldiers being sent to Afghanistan, at a training exercise in the UK on Friday, Mr Reid said their presence would allow aid workers to help opium growers develop alternative sources of income.
But Army Rumour Service members remain unconvinced.
"Wouldn't it be a damn sight easier and cheaper just to buy up the opium stocks?" one contributor wonders.
While another asks: "How much of the heroin on the streets of Marseilles, Lyons and Paris ALSO originates in Afghanistan and are France going to participate in this NATO op[eration]?"
Mr Reid said it was hoped other countries - including Australia, New Zealand and the Netherlands would also send troops to strengthen the Isaf.
The deployment will cost £1bn over three years.
But another user tells Army Rumour Service that may not be enough.
"I hope someone has carefully planned the expenditure of this money and built in sufficient contingency for all eventualities - unlike other recent op[eration]s.
"A lot of people have known about this for sometime, I would therefore look dimly on any excuses given should it all go wrong."
The extra 3,300 troops, who will go mainly to the country's volatile Helmand area, will add to the 1,100 already in Afghanistan and 1,950 announced earlier.
The initial deployment will be 1,000 troops to the Headquarters Group of the Allied Rapid Reaction Corps, with the main deployment of 3,300 heading to the south, including a Provincial Construction team.
But for some critics the figures do not add up.
"How is the RAF going to transport and sustain such a large force at such a distance?" one asks the Army Rumour Service.
Another writes: "After all this effort and support, there is just one, (yes ONE), 'boots-on-the-ground' battle group actually going to 'provide a secure and stable environment' to a land area slightly larger than Wales!
OK, it's a pretty powerful BG [battle group], and maybe some others will join our party - but no mention yet who..."
Other are worried about the Army becoming over-stretched.
One Army Rumour Service user writes: "The [A]rmy are so short now. Are the TA going to do ceremonial duties?"
Mr Reid said the additional support would help prevent Afghanistan from "falling back into the clutches of the Taleban".
But some contributors are concerned about the possibility of any conflict escalating.
"Kabul as we all know has absolutely no control over the area, which in itself raises the possibility of good old border conflicts with Pakistan," one tells Army Rumour Service.
Unease over Afghan duty
A site popular with soldiers has highlighted some unease at the prospect of UK troops being deployed to Afghanistan later this year.
Members of the unofficial but popular Army Rumour Service (ARRSE) website have been responding to the announcement an extra 3,300 British soldiers are being sent to help with Nato's International Security Assistance Force [Isaf] peace-keeping duties.
One user had a specific message for Defence Secretary John Reid.
"If I have to bull [polish] my boots and carry any mates off the back of a[n RAF] herc[ules] Mr Reid needs to know that I will hold him personally responsible," he writes.
"If it's me being carried then I will have left explicit instructions and half of my life insurance to someone who will avenge me."
Visiting some of the soldiers being sent to Afghanistan, at a training exercise in the UK on Friday, Mr Reid said their presence would allow aid workers to help opium growers develop alternative sources of income.
But Army Rumour Service members remain unconvinced.
"Wouldn't it be a damn sight easier and cheaper just to buy up the opium stocks?" one contributor wonders.
While another asks: "How much of the heroin on the streets of Marseilles, Lyons and Paris ALSO originates in Afghanistan and are France going to participate in this NATO op[eration]?"
Mr Reid said it was hoped other countries - including Australia, New Zealand and the Netherlands would also send troops to strengthen the Isaf.
The deployment will cost £1bn over three years.
But another user tells Army Rumour Service that may not be enough.
"I hope someone has carefully planned the expenditure of this money and built in sufficient contingency for all eventualities - unlike other recent op[eration]s.
"A lot of people have known about this for sometime, I would therefore look dimly on any excuses given should it all go wrong."
The extra 3,300 troops, who will go mainly to the country's volatile Helmand area, will add to the 1,100 already in Afghanistan and 1,950 announced earlier.
The initial deployment will be 1,000 troops to the Headquarters Group of the Allied Rapid Reaction Corps, with the main deployment of 3,300 heading to the south, including a Provincial Construction team.
But for some critics the figures do not add up.
"How is the RAF going to transport and sustain such a large force at such a distance?" one asks the Army Rumour Service.
Another writes: "After all this effort and support, there is just one, (yes ONE), 'boots-on-the-ground' battle group actually going to 'provide a secure and stable environment' to a land area slightly larger than Wales!
OK, it's a pretty powerful BG [battle group], and maybe some others will join our party - but no mention yet who..."
Other are worried about the Army becoming over-stretched.
One Army Rumour Service user writes: "The [A]rmy are so short now. Are the TA going to do ceremonial duties?"
Mr Reid said the additional support would help prevent Afghanistan from "falling back into the clutches of the Taleban".
But some contributors are concerned about the possibility of any conflict escalating.
"Kabul as we all know has absolutely no control over the area, which in itself raises the possibility of good old border conflicts with Pakistan," one tells Army Rumour Service.
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Onan
There may indeed be a parallel of sorts. Just as the Picts were really too much trouble for the Romans to subjugate (law of diminishing returns), a wall to keep them out of the empire was the lateral solution of the day, just as cash subsidies and manipulation of the Afghan tribal chiefs were the lateral solutions for the British Empire, in the nineteenth century.
Perhaps lateral thinking is still required in this modern day?
There may indeed be a parallel of sorts. Just as the Picts were really too much trouble for the Romans to subjugate (law of diminishing returns), a wall to keep them out of the empire was the lateral solution of the day, just as cash subsidies and manipulation of the Afghan tribal chiefs were the lateral solutions for the British Empire, in the nineteenth century.
Perhaps lateral thinking is still required in this modern day?
Last edited by highcirrus; 30th Jan 2006 at 03:43.
One Army Rumour Service user writes: "The [A]rmy are so short now. Are the TA going to do ceremonial duties?"
OH Hell....we cannot let combat service get in the way of Ceremonial Duties...that just wouldn't do now would it? Afterall...one must have priorities....Troops on Parade certainly trumps Troops on Patrol.
You have to admit....that of all the excuses thrown out so far....that is pretty darn Lame!
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SASless. I’m guessing that there was a fair amount of sarcasm intended in those words, reflecting the importance which the “brass” attaches to ceremonial. I would think that the intended message was that the manpower situation must be pretty strained if troops have to come off ceremonial and go on ops!
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You will have to forgive SaS as he's American........ irony, satire, sarcasm and of course history are not that nations strong points
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
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As we seem to be on the eve of another big push (does this mean the war will be over by Christmas daddy?), I thought the following from the Spectator of 19th November 2005 might be interesting to those about to depart UK’s shores. To date, writer Anderson has had no response from any of the named parties.
CONDUCT UNBECOMING – Bruce Anderson.
Actions are being taken in the British people’s name which should make us feel appalled. The government’s behaviour towards the British army has been despicable.
In Northern Ireland, there are plans to give an amnesty to IRA terrorists who were never prosecuted because they went on the run. Though an unappealing prospect, that could be regarded as falling within the spirit of the Good Friday Agreement. But someone saw a difficulty. What if evidence emerged which could lead to the prosecution of a British soldier, after all the terrorists had won immunity. A bizarre solution was found. It is proposed to re-examine thousands of killings which took place in Northern Ireland during the Troubles, including the killings of terrorists by members of the security forces. The intention is that this will lead to a general amnesty. It would also establish a moral equivalence between the British army and the terrorists.
This has caused outrage throughout the army. When the Romans took prisoners, they made them pass under a yoke which normally harnessed beasts of burden. This was not painful, but it was humiliating. The British army feels that it is now being made to pass under the yoke. If the defence ministers were trying to sabotage recruitment and eradicate morale they could hardly have done better.
Yet there is worse. The ministers have not acted out of malice. They are merely guilty of naivety, incompetence and stupidity. They could not have done anything like as much damage without the help of the generals. Politically, this government is weak and growing weaker. If the generals had been prepared to push their disagreements to the point of resignation, the ministers would have collapsed like a wet meringue. But – and this is terrible – there is no evidence that the generals did disagree.
Man for man, the British army is now the best in the world. The principal reason for is the quality of training. But training is not just a matter of teaching techniques and instilling discipline. Training is about bonding and instilling an ethos. Both of those depend on the integrity of the chain of command and on leadership. However well drilled the modern private soldier may be, he is a thinking creature, not an automaton. He will not long follow men whom he does not respect. Those in authority over him win that respect by their confidence, their courage and their commitment to his welfare. That is the unspoken contract between the officer and his men: do what I tell you, and I will look after you as best I can.
That is the contract which the lawyers are now forcing the officers to dishonour. In his dealings with Tony Blair over the legality of the Iraq war, Lord Goldsmith, the Attorney General, was so invertebrate that he would go on licking the Prime Minister’s boots even while his backside was being kicked. In his dealings with the army, the Attorney General has been consistent. He believes that the armed forces should be a free-fire zone for human rights, political correctness and international jurisdiction. As a result, dubious solicitors who used to chase ambulances now chase khaki. British soldiers in Iraq often come across the slug slime of shyster lawyers.
Senior officers are not seeking permission for their men to run amok. That would be the end of discipline. It is always impressed upon soldiers that they must fight within the Geneva Convention. When troops are in combat, every serious incident is investigated within the chain of command, and this is not a formality. Over the years plenty of soldiers have been prosecuted.
Chain-of-command justice has one advantage. As those conducting the investigations understand the context in which soldiers must operate, they can make informed judgments as to acceptable behaviour. That is not true of Lord Goldsmith and his minions. Yet over the past few years, the lawyers in London have succeeded in devaluing the chain of command.
Trooper Williams was cleared after an investigation by two colonels. That availed him nothing once the Crown Prosecution Service intervened. In court, the case against him collapsed. But a good soldier who had risked his life was rewarded with two years under the shadow of a murder charge. Other CPS-inspired cases have also folded, but not until the soldiers concerned had been punished with months of anxiety for the crime of serving their country.
As a result of this, one might have thought that the army would have asserted itself to restore the primacy of the chain of command. Not so: the Attorney General was able to rebut any such moves with the threat of the International Criminal Court. When Britain signed up to the ICC, there were assurances that British soldiers would never appear in front of it. It would only act in countries which refused to mount proper investigations of their own. But senior officers have now been warned that the ICC would not regard the chain of command as an adequate legal procedure. So methods which have been tried and tested over the decades would not prevent foreign lawyers from putting British soldiers on a par with Milosevic: more of the yoke.
The generals alone cannot solve the problem of the ICC. But one might expect some resistance. Instead, senior figures have made love to their employment as lawyers’ pimps. A brigadier working directly for General Sir Michael Jackson wrote as follows : ‘Do you have any evidence of officer misbehaviour in Iraq which I could use?’
The cold, callous tone of that missive could have come from some satirists’ version of the chateau –generals in the First World War. The satirists were writing fiction. That brigadier’s letter encouraged the prosecution of Colonel Jorge Mendonca, DSO, and outstanding soldier. A country which can treat Colonel Mendonca like this ought to be ashamed of itself. As for the brigadier, better men have shot themselves for worse reasons. Around Mike Jackson, however, they are beyond shame.
Mike Jackson: corruptio optimi pessima. Everything about the outward man inspires respect. He looks like a mensch: a fighting soldier, a soldier’s soldier, the last commander on earth to be seduced by the politicians. He has force of personality, reinforced by a hint of menace. If he had been willing to stand up to the politicians, they would never have dared to stand up to him.
But all his supposed strengths were a sham. It was said of the great Slim that he had the brains of a Field Marshal and the heart of a private soldier. Mike Jackson has the heart of a toy poodle. His career as Chief of the General Staff is a study in moral failure.
In combat zones, soldiers invariably ask one question of senior visitors: is the country behind them? They desperately want to hear a yes. But how can today’s soldiers believe that when the lawyers are allowed to run amok? Throughout the services, there are problems with recruitment and retention. Mr. Blair wants to use the army more and more. They way the ministers and generals are acting, there will be less and less to use. What happened to joined-up government?
What has happened to duty, honour, patriotism – to common decency? What has happened to this country when brave colonels are prosecuted while generals – full of rank and titles, wearing resplendent uniforms, by all appearances worthy successors to their illustrious forebears – fail in their most basic duty to the men under their command?
CONDUCT UNBECOMING – Bruce Anderson.
Actions are being taken in the British people’s name which should make us feel appalled. The government’s behaviour towards the British army has been despicable.
In Northern Ireland, there are plans to give an amnesty to IRA terrorists who were never prosecuted because they went on the run. Though an unappealing prospect, that could be regarded as falling within the spirit of the Good Friday Agreement. But someone saw a difficulty. What if evidence emerged which could lead to the prosecution of a British soldier, after all the terrorists had won immunity. A bizarre solution was found. It is proposed to re-examine thousands of killings which took place in Northern Ireland during the Troubles, including the killings of terrorists by members of the security forces. The intention is that this will lead to a general amnesty. It would also establish a moral equivalence between the British army and the terrorists.
This has caused outrage throughout the army. When the Romans took prisoners, they made them pass under a yoke which normally harnessed beasts of burden. This was not painful, but it was humiliating. The British army feels that it is now being made to pass under the yoke. If the defence ministers were trying to sabotage recruitment and eradicate morale they could hardly have done better.
Yet there is worse. The ministers have not acted out of malice. They are merely guilty of naivety, incompetence and stupidity. They could not have done anything like as much damage without the help of the generals. Politically, this government is weak and growing weaker. If the generals had been prepared to push their disagreements to the point of resignation, the ministers would have collapsed like a wet meringue. But – and this is terrible – there is no evidence that the generals did disagree.
Man for man, the British army is now the best in the world. The principal reason for is the quality of training. But training is not just a matter of teaching techniques and instilling discipline. Training is about bonding and instilling an ethos. Both of those depend on the integrity of the chain of command and on leadership. However well drilled the modern private soldier may be, he is a thinking creature, not an automaton. He will not long follow men whom he does not respect. Those in authority over him win that respect by their confidence, their courage and their commitment to his welfare. That is the unspoken contract between the officer and his men: do what I tell you, and I will look after you as best I can.
That is the contract which the lawyers are now forcing the officers to dishonour. In his dealings with Tony Blair over the legality of the Iraq war, Lord Goldsmith, the Attorney General, was so invertebrate that he would go on licking the Prime Minister’s boots even while his backside was being kicked. In his dealings with the army, the Attorney General has been consistent. He believes that the armed forces should be a free-fire zone for human rights, political correctness and international jurisdiction. As a result, dubious solicitors who used to chase ambulances now chase khaki. British soldiers in Iraq often come across the slug slime of shyster lawyers.
Senior officers are not seeking permission for their men to run amok. That would be the end of discipline. It is always impressed upon soldiers that they must fight within the Geneva Convention. When troops are in combat, every serious incident is investigated within the chain of command, and this is not a formality. Over the years plenty of soldiers have been prosecuted.
Chain-of-command justice has one advantage. As those conducting the investigations understand the context in which soldiers must operate, they can make informed judgments as to acceptable behaviour. That is not true of Lord Goldsmith and his minions. Yet over the past few years, the lawyers in London have succeeded in devaluing the chain of command.
Trooper Williams was cleared after an investigation by two colonels. That availed him nothing once the Crown Prosecution Service intervened. In court, the case against him collapsed. But a good soldier who had risked his life was rewarded with two years under the shadow of a murder charge. Other CPS-inspired cases have also folded, but not until the soldiers concerned had been punished with months of anxiety for the crime of serving their country.
As a result of this, one might have thought that the army would have asserted itself to restore the primacy of the chain of command. Not so: the Attorney General was able to rebut any such moves with the threat of the International Criminal Court. When Britain signed up to the ICC, there were assurances that British soldiers would never appear in front of it. It would only act in countries which refused to mount proper investigations of their own. But senior officers have now been warned that the ICC would not regard the chain of command as an adequate legal procedure. So methods which have been tried and tested over the decades would not prevent foreign lawyers from putting British soldiers on a par with Milosevic: more of the yoke.
The generals alone cannot solve the problem of the ICC. But one might expect some resistance. Instead, senior figures have made love to their employment as lawyers’ pimps. A brigadier working directly for General Sir Michael Jackson wrote as follows : ‘Do you have any evidence of officer misbehaviour in Iraq which I could use?’
The cold, callous tone of that missive could have come from some satirists’ version of the chateau –generals in the First World War. The satirists were writing fiction. That brigadier’s letter encouraged the prosecution of Colonel Jorge Mendonca, DSO, and outstanding soldier. A country which can treat Colonel Mendonca like this ought to be ashamed of itself. As for the brigadier, better men have shot themselves for worse reasons. Around Mike Jackson, however, they are beyond shame.
Mike Jackson: corruptio optimi pessima. Everything about the outward man inspires respect. He looks like a mensch: a fighting soldier, a soldier’s soldier, the last commander on earth to be seduced by the politicians. He has force of personality, reinforced by a hint of menace. If he had been willing to stand up to the politicians, they would never have dared to stand up to him.
But all his supposed strengths were a sham. It was said of the great Slim that he had the brains of a Field Marshal and the heart of a private soldier. Mike Jackson has the heart of a toy poodle. His career as Chief of the General Staff is a study in moral failure.
In combat zones, soldiers invariably ask one question of senior visitors: is the country behind them? They desperately want to hear a yes. But how can today’s soldiers believe that when the lawyers are allowed to run amok? Throughout the services, there are problems with recruitment and retention. Mr. Blair wants to use the army more and more. They way the ministers and generals are acting, there will be less and less to use. What happened to joined-up government?
What has happened to duty, honour, patriotism – to common decency? What has happened to this country when brave colonels are prosecuted while generals – full of rank and titles, wearing resplendent uniforms, by all appearances worthy successors to their illustrious forebears – fail in their most basic duty to the men under their command?
Inter Arma Enim Silentius Lex Legis
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The biggest problem as I see it, is going to be the sucking in effect. The guys in Helmland are going to have a very hard time and are most likely going to end up in some serious fire fights. The only way Reid is going to save face is to continually re-inforce the numbers that he has sent and I fear we could end up with many many thousands of troops out there over the next two to three years. Air cover assets will inevitably have to go into theatre very soon after ground ops start oh and just to cheer every one up this is a NATO led op!!
Jock Syrup had a chance to stop all this by saying enough is enough and sorry but we can't support this additional tasking. But in the true yes tradition of the Air Farce he didn't. Stirling stuff Sir and just how many months will you be doing out there?
Jock Syrup had a chance to stop all this by saying enough is enough and sorry but we can't support this additional tasking. But in the true yes tradition of the Air Farce he didn't. Stirling stuff Sir and just how many months will you be doing out there?
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Originally Posted by The Gorilla
Jock Syrup had a chance to stop all this by saying enough is enough and sorry but we can't support this additional tasking. But in the true yes tradition of the Air Farce he didn't. Stirling stuff Sir and just how many months will you be doing out there?
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hemel Hempstead
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Hard Truths
Folks,
First, don't knock poor old Jock, remember he was a Plt Off once, so would have served his time doing crap stuff at the behest of some senior. Also, he has a comfortable life style to support, so he's as much entitled to his pension as the next man. Also remember, the polititians don't give a damn for Jock or anyone else, so what if he resigns, there are plenty more willing to climb the greasy pole. If Jock goes, compliant senior officers are a dime a dozen, just promote the next one and keep going till you get the answer you want.
Now as for fighting pointless wars with too little of the wrong kit that probably don't work anyway, this is not a new problem. I expect the Romans also complained in the same way. Who cares if half the force resigns in disgust, there is always a stream of star struck kids queueing up to sign on as a result of watching the Dead Sparrows, or seeing The Battle of Britain film on a Sunday afternoon. Even better in fact, as the kids don't know what they are letting themselves in for, and will do what they are asked willingly enough. No wonder war fighting is a young persons game, anyone with half a brain would avoid it like the plague.
Any poor soul who has been too close to real fighting and has seen what explosives can do to people would be only too pleased to spend the rest of his service doing cerimonial duties if it meant never going to war again, especially over some God forsaken hole like Afghanistan.
I don't blame the Air Marshals, and I feel sorry for the boys and girls off on this deployment. The people responsible as those we voted in to power last time. Just don't make the same mistake at the next election.
First, don't knock poor old Jock, remember he was a Plt Off once, so would have served his time doing crap stuff at the behest of some senior. Also, he has a comfortable life style to support, so he's as much entitled to his pension as the next man. Also remember, the polititians don't give a damn for Jock or anyone else, so what if he resigns, there are plenty more willing to climb the greasy pole. If Jock goes, compliant senior officers are a dime a dozen, just promote the next one and keep going till you get the answer you want.
Now as for fighting pointless wars with too little of the wrong kit that probably don't work anyway, this is not a new problem. I expect the Romans also complained in the same way. Who cares if half the force resigns in disgust, there is always a stream of star struck kids queueing up to sign on as a result of watching the Dead Sparrows, or seeing The Battle of Britain film on a Sunday afternoon. Even better in fact, as the kids don't know what they are letting themselves in for, and will do what they are asked willingly enough. No wonder war fighting is a young persons game, anyone with half a brain would avoid it like the plague.
Any poor soul who has been too close to real fighting and has seen what explosives can do to people would be only too pleased to spend the rest of his service doing cerimonial duties if it meant never going to war again, especially over some God forsaken hole like Afghanistan.
I don't blame the Air Marshals, and I feel sorry for the boys and girls off on this deployment. The people responsible as those we voted in to power last time. Just don't make the same mistake at the next election.
Last edited by RayDarr; 30th Jan 2006 at 13:20.