XM607, Waddington's Warbird
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XM607, Waddington's Warbird
While there has been an awful lot recently on Blackpool's Vulcan (XL391) being destroyed due to it's condition, Has anybody given any thought to what could be the RAF's most significant Vulcan?
As the UK has been lamenting the neglect of XL391, The aircraft that carried out the initial Black Buck bombings, and which held the longest ever bombing record for many years, has been left to corrode on a remote dispersal site at RAF Waddington for as many years as '391, but obviously get no press, because "The RAF are looking after that one"
Trouble is, we're not. At all.
The last time I saw 607, it was a rusty wreck, and this was only 6 months ago. Yes, Waddington move her aroAnd from time to time, but inside, she's rotting away, and outside, the corrosion is eating her up. All 4 jetpipes have rotted through, and most of her skin is pitted terribly.
I personally think that of all the Vulcans remaining, this is the one that should be preserved, if only because it is the one that has had a significant influence in all of our lives.
Should it really be left to degrade, out of public view on a dispersal pan at Waddington?
Does anybody think that we should at least bring her up to a respectable standard, and try to preserve the RAF's Flagship of the Falklands War?
As the UK has been lamenting the neglect of XL391, The aircraft that carried out the initial Black Buck bombings, and which held the longest ever bombing record for many years, has been left to corrode on a remote dispersal site at RAF Waddington for as many years as '391, but obviously get no press, because "The RAF are looking after that one"
Trouble is, we're not. At all.
The last time I saw 607, it was a rusty wreck, and this was only 6 months ago. Yes, Waddington move her aroAnd from time to time, but inside, she's rotting away, and outside, the corrosion is eating her up. All 4 jetpipes have rotted through, and most of her skin is pitted terribly.
I personally think that of all the Vulcans remaining, this is the one that should be preserved, if only because it is the one that has had a significant influence in all of our lives.
Should it really be left to degrade, out of public view on a dispersal pan at Waddington?
Does anybody think that we should at least bring her up to a respectable standard, and try to preserve the RAF's Flagship of the Falklands War?
Last edited by The Rocket; 20th Jan 2006 at 23:45.
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You're quite right HS, on photo's it doesn't
Truth is, if you are able to look at it, DO! It's obviously not yet in quite the same state as 391 is, or rather, was, but it is in a ridiculously bad state for one of our historic aircraft.
Stacker, if you could see if close up, and the corrosion on places like the trailing edges, Forward Fuselage, Main Legs and U/C bays where the planks of 2 by 4 have stored the moisture for the past 15 years, you may well be outraged also
Ignore the fact that the pictures on the website are a full 6 years old, and the aircraft has had 4 different resting places since then, your spot of Googling is obviously far more reliable than an officer who has physically seen an enormously beautiful chunk of heritage rot away before his very eyes.
Truth is, if you are able to look at it, DO! It's obviously not yet in quite the same state as 391 is, or rather, was, but it is in a ridiculously bad state for one of our historic aircraft.
Stacker, if you could see if close up, and the corrosion on places like the trailing edges, Forward Fuselage, Main Legs and U/C bays where the planks of 2 by 4 have stored the moisture for the past 15 years, you may well be outraged also
Ignore the fact that the pictures on the website are a full 6 years old, and the aircraft has had 4 different resting places since then, your spot of Googling is obviously far more reliable than an officer who has physically seen an enormously beautiful chunk of heritage rot away before his very eyes.
Last edited by The Rocket; 20th Jan 2006 at 23:48.
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Noted from the link
The 44(Rhodesia) Squadron information brought back many happy memories. My crew had the Zimbabwe Air Legion T shirts made in Omaha, and my daughter still wears Mine!
Hi Ray - 'twas me who coined the term 'Zimbabwe Air Legion' for Terry Mitchell when he was on 44(Southern Rhodesia) Sqn - glad to hear the T-shirt is surviving!
The state of XM607 is disgraceful. But with a bankrupt fast jet centric air force, does anybody expect anything else?
'655 and '426 survive entirely due to voluntary effort and dedication. '559 will fly again, thanks to public contribution and national heritage grants.
Yet the RAF cannot afford to keep one historic airframe in static display condition? Making it a responibility of the various service engineering training schools would be my suggestion.
The state of XM607 is disgraceful. But with a bankrupt fast jet centric air force, does anybody expect anything else?
'655 and '426 survive entirely due to voluntary effort and dedication. '559 will fly again, thanks to public contribution and national heritage grants.
Yet the RAF cannot afford to keep one historic airframe in static display condition? Making it a responibility of the various service engineering training schools would be my suggestion.
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I agree it is shameful the way this magnificent machine of war is being allowed to deteriorate to the point that soon the H&S world will demand its destruction.
Truth is, these days the bean counters hold sway, and to refurbish the airframe to a half decent standard is going to cost. That means budget holders will have to give up something towards the cost. And their attitude is bound to be 'why should they'?
There is little enough money to go round to do the primary job these days.
This government has decimated the Armed Forces to the lowest point ever in its history. They will point to the massive increase in capability of modern aircraft and weapon systems requiring less assests, but what they have not taken into account is attrition. If I have 100 Spitfires and lose 5 to enemy ground action, that's 5% loss. If I only have 10 Harriers at Kandahar and the terrorists take out 5 in a raid on the airfield, that's 50%. It's not rocket science, and whilst 5 Spitfires could be built as replacements in a few weeks or months, 5 Harriers would take how long? - assuming that British Waste of Space still had the capability to build from scratch.
They say history has a habit of repeating itself - remember the 1930's...
Truth is, these days the bean counters hold sway, and to refurbish the airframe to a half decent standard is going to cost. That means budget holders will have to give up something towards the cost. And their attitude is bound to be 'why should they'?
There is little enough money to go round to do the primary job these days.
This government has decimated the Armed Forces to the lowest point ever in its history. They will point to the massive increase in capability of modern aircraft and weapon systems requiring less assests, but what they have not taken into account is attrition. If I have 100 Spitfires and lose 5 to enemy ground action, that's 5% loss. If I only have 10 Harriers at Kandahar and the terrorists take out 5 in a raid on the airfield, that's 50%. It's not rocket science, and whilst 5 Spitfires could be built as replacements in a few weeks or months, 5 Harriers would take how long? - assuming that British Waste of Space still had the capability to build from scratch.
They say history has a habit of repeating itself - remember the 1930's...
FJJP,
"This government has decimated the Armed Forces to the lowest point ever in its history"
Utter utter nonsense, you have no sense of history if you believe that to be the case.
The RAF does not have 10 Harriers it will have 70 odd upgraded GR9/9A's, so your Kandahar point is?
Draw me ONE valid and credible parallel between the situation in the 1930's and today, go on, just one.
DAMM shame though if this Vulcan goes the way of the example at Blackpool, or even the Beverley at Hendon, and THAT was in the care of the RAF Museum!
"This government has decimated the Armed Forces to the lowest point ever in its history"
Utter utter nonsense, you have no sense of history if you believe that to be the case.
The RAF does not have 10 Harriers it will have 70 odd upgraded GR9/9A's, so your Kandahar point is?
Draw me ONE valid and credible parallel between the situation in the 1930's and today, go on, just one.
DAMM shame though if this Vulcan goes the way of the example at Blackpool, or even the Beverley at Hendon, and THAT was in the care of the RAF Museum!
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I seem to remember I mentioned in here on a different topic two years ago about the fate of XL319 at the North East Air Museum at Sunderland. Even then it's condition was deteriorating due to lack of TLC....
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Quote "The RAF does not have 10 Harriers it will have 70 odd upgraded GR9/9A's"
Including the T birds yes they have 70 odd, whether they all get upgraded is an assumption.
There was a Vulcan at BAES Woodford 6-7 years ago, is it still there, what condition is it?
Including the T birds yes they have 70 odd, whether they all get upgraded is an assumption.
There was a Vulcan at BAES Woodford 6-7 years ago, is it still there, what condition is it?
seand,
The contract with BAES is for 62 GR9/9A and 9 T12.
My main concern for the Vulcan at Woodford is what will happen to it when BAEs inevitably close the place. There is no guarantee that the MRA4 will be built there, though it is obviously the most likely choice, but after that? When they have finished converting the 9 production airframes what is there left for Woodford to do?
The contract with BAES is for 62 GR9/9A and 9 T12.
My main concern for the Vulcan at Woodford is what will happen to it when BAEs inevitably close the place. There is no guarantee that the MRA4 will be built there, though it is obviously the most likely choice, but after that? When they have finished converting the 9 production airframes what is there left for Woodford to do?
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I've already whined and bitched about the mis-treatment of XM607 many times.
You would think that as the holder of a record (the longest bombing mission in the history of aerial warfare) until a B-52 beat it a few years ago, the aircraft would be assured of a safe future. But this is Britain of course, so the aircraft just gets pushed around in the cold and wet, year after year.
The Victor that used to be next to 607 was destroyed, despite being one of the tanker aircraft which enabled XM607 to perform its historic mission. There was no reason for the Victor's destruction, other than a decision made by some fool at the MoD, that RAF bases should only have one "gate guard" (not that 607 has ever been anywhere near Waddington's gate). Consequently, the Victor had to go for scrap, along with lots of other aircraft around the country that were hurting nobody, thanks to some arseh*le pen-pusher who had nothing better to do.
XM607 is in a poor condition, but the paint application hides a multitude of sins. However, the paint scheme isn't great either - the mission markings on the nose (which were re-applied a few years ago) look nothing like the artwork that was originally applied in 1982 - you'd think that repainting markings would be simple enough, wouldn't you?
Of course XM607 also had the distinction of wearing "desert camouflage" on her undersides during a Red Flag at Nellis, and it was a well-known display aircraft for many years, fondly remembered for some hairy take-offs at Greenham Common's IAT, courtesy of Joe L'Estrange.
No matter how you look at it, 607 is an aircraft which should be in a museum or at least a hangar.
Why can't someone start a campaign to build a shed for it? We do have a National Lottery Heritage Fund for this kind of thing, after all?
You would think that as the holder of a record (the longest bombing mission in the history of aerial warfare) until a B-52 beat it a few years ago, the aircraft would be assured of a safe future. But this is Britain of course, so the aircraft just gets pushed around in the cold and wet, year after year.
The Victor that used to be next to 607 was destroyed, despite being one of the tanker aircraft which enabled XM607 to perform its historic mission. There was no reason for the Victor's destruction, other than a decision made by some fool at the MoD, that RAF bases should only have one "gate guard" (not that 607 has ever been anywhere near Waddington's gate). Consequently, the Victor had to go for scrap, along with lots of other aircraft around the country that were hurting nobody, thanks to some arseh*le pen-pusher who had nothing better to do.
XM607 is in a poor condition, but the paint application hides a multitude of sins. However, the paint scheme isn't great either - the mission markings on the nose (which were re-applied a few years ago) look nothing like the artwork that was originally applied in 1982 - you'd think that repainting markings would be simple enough, wouldn't you?
Of course XM607 also had the distinction of wearing "desert camouflage" on her undersides during a Red Flag at Nellis, and it was a well-known display aircraft for many years, fondly remembered for some hairy take-offs at Greenham Common's IAT, courtesy of Joe L'Estrange.
No matter how you look at it, 607 is an aircraft which should be in a museum or at least a hangar.
Why can't someone start a campaign to build a shed for it? We do have a National Lottery Heritage Fund for this kind of thing, after all?
Suspicion breeds confidence
"This government has decimated the Armed Forces to the lowest point ever in its history"
Rocket
Good rant.
Just one point though. Not sure how many Vulcans they have at Waddo (I'm not in the habit of taking tail numbers) but to suggest it is hidden away out of public view is not quite true.
I drove past Waddo barely 3 days ago on the A15 towards Coneheadsby and there was a Vulcan sat not 50 yards from the road. Or have I missed something?
BV
Just one point though. Not sure how many Vulcans they have at Waddo (I'm not in the habit of taking tail numbers) but to suggest it is hidden away out of public view is not quite true.
I drove past Waddo barely 3 days ago on the A15 towards Coneheadsby and there was a Vulcan sat not 50 yards from the road. Or have I missed something?
BV
Originally Posted by pr00ne
FJJP,
Draw me ONE valid and credible parallel between the situation in the 1930's and today, go on, just one.
Draw me ONE valid and credible parallel between the situation in the 1930's and today, go on, just one.
Kind of like asking "What have the Romans ever done for us........................."
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prOOne
3.5K servicemen to Afghanistan soon. What we do if Argentina decided to have a better-thought-out go at the Falklands in the autumn? Go on, tell me how much of a task force we could put together - how many grey funnel line ships, what aircraft, what tankers and transports? How many troops, how to re-supply?
And Iran. Assume positive and true intelligence. GW decides to go for it and invites president bliar to support with tangible assets?
And another cod war?
I could go on; the lack of assets leaves us effectively toothless if we end up in an attrition situation. 70 Harriers sounds a lot, but take some out for major servicing, multiple dets, training, etc, and it doesn't leave many to fill the gaps when losses occur. In WW11 you could build a Spitfire in a couple of weeks, but how long to build a Harrier or Tonkka [assuming the means still exists to built one from scratch]?
And will someone please tell me where all the money went that was saved with the run-down of the Soviet block and the continued reduction in defence spending...
3.5K servicemen to Afghanistan soon. What we do if Argentina decided to have a better-thought-out go at the Falklands in the autumn? Go on, tell me how much of a task force we could put together - how many grey funnel line ships, what aircraft, what tankers and transports? How many troops, how to re-supply?
And Iran. Assume positive and true intelligence. GW decides to go for it and invites president bliar to support with tangible assets?
And another cod war?
I could go on; the lack of assets leaves us effectively toothless if we end up in an attrition situation. 70 Harriers sounds a lot, but take some out for major servicing, multiple dets, training, etc, and it doesn't leave many to fill the gaps when losses occur. In WW11 you could build a Spitfire in a couple of weeks, but how long to build a Harrier or Tonkka [assuming the means still exists to built one from scratch]?
And will someone please tell me where all the money went that was saved with the run-down of the Soviet block and the continued reduction in defence spending...
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BV,
You are right, XM607 is the only Vulcan at Waddington, and is parked in full view of the viewing area just off the A15. It has been there since at least the last airshow, or possibly even the airshow in 2003.
It is scandalous that the RAF, or even Waddington, cannot look after the aircraft.
Y_G
You are right, XM607 is the only Vulcan at Waddington, and is parked in full view of the viewing area just off the A15. It has been there since at least the last airshow, or possibly even the airshow in 2003.
It is scandalous that the RAF, or even Waddington, cannot look after the aircraft.
Y_G
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You mean The Vulcan Story? nah, that Vulcan book is a load of old rubbish!
(actually the serials and disposals are pretty accurate, seen as I got the list direct from the manufacturer).
(actually the serials and disposals are pretty accurate, seen as I got the list direct from the manufacturer).