People going sick.
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Re: People going sick.
Originally Posted by movadinkampa747
Fitness is related to the downgraded question. You never did answer my question as to whether the individual was downgraded at your unit as you originally said, or were they downgraded during training?
DOWNGRADED DURING TRAINING AND IS STILL DOWNGRADED AT MY UNIT. hope that cleared it up.
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Re: People going sick.
How could I not allow her to pass her TATS due to a downgrade?
A downgrade is a medical caveat.
She demonstrated a basic knowledge of her trade and passed all relevant exams etc related.
The fact that she was, and still is, downgraded has no bearing on her abilty as a tradesperson.
A downgrade is a medical caveat.
She demonstrated a basic knowledge of her trade and passed all relevant exams etc related.
The fact that she was, and still is, downgraded has no bearing on her abilty as a tradesperson.
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Re: People going sick.
Originally Posted by movadinkampa747
No need to shout. As you did originally say "On arrival into my section this LAC was downgraded" So why did you allow them to get prommoted to SAC if they are so bad.
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Re: People going sick.
Originally Posted by movadinkampa747
So now you are saying that she is able to carryout her primary role? So why would you want to have her pay reduced?
can't do CCS/Guard Training
Cant do Duty 'tradesperson'
cant do fitness test
unfit live armed guard
cant carry out certain elements of her trade that aren't covered in TATS.
(and no, im not going to give you any clues as to her trade)
argumentative? mmm
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Re: People going sick.
Originally Posted by movadinkampa747
where did I say she was 'so bad' ? That is what you said.
So what is your problem?
So what is your problem?
come on mova, show me where i said 'so bad'
or get back to your homework, in fact shouldn't you be in bed now dreaming of your teacher and hoping you dont get bullied tomorrow.
get your facts straight before you decide to enlighten us with your wisdom.
you must be a joy to work with.
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Re: People going sick.
Originally Posted by movadinkampa747
You intimated that she wasn't "so bad" so what is your problem with her if she can do her primary role at her unit.
please stop being pedantic. A child of your ability should know better.
Does anyone else have any suggestions on this?
Should the MOD introduce SSP?
Not enough $$$ ...
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Re: People going sick.
Originally Posted by movadinkampa747
Being off sick and being downgraded are two seperate issues. Does she come to work sometimes? If so, she is entitled to her full pay as are you. You after all signed her TATS and got her prommoted to SAC.
SSP covers you for only a period of 28 weeks for being off sick.
SSP covers you for only a period of 28 weeks for being off sick.
In my civvie (government) job, you get 4 weeks Recreational Leave and 8 DAYS Sick Leave per year. If you are a poorly sort and get sick a lot, well guess what - you start taking Rec Leave to "pay" for your sick days. If you're very poorly and end up being away from work so long that you use up all your Sick AND Rec Leave, guess what - you don't get paid anymore, because you are on Leave Without Pay.
The Artful Dodgers around here play the Stress card - OOOooooeeeeerrrrr, I'm all stressed, I can't cope, but they still have to take Leave Without Pay if they use up all their rightful leave.
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Re: People going sick.
mova747,
Once again you join a thread to twist someones words and to be generally annoying.
Mr Wippy, everyone else knows the point that you are making, and I for one, totally agree with your sentiments. If people are "swinging the lead" then they should made an example of instead of other people having to cover for their laziness - simple
LCP
Once again you join a thread to twist someones words and to be generally annoying.
Mr Wippy, everyone else knows the point that you are making, and I for one, totally agree with your sentiments. If people are "swinging the lead" then they should made an example of instead of other people having to cover for their laziness - simple
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Re: People going sick.
Totally agree with the playground squabbling comment. This is a serious issue with anecdotal evidence (inevitably) that people are increasingly lead swinging to avoid their committments. The Civil service has a concept of "notional attendance" which lets staff turn up for work for a short period then go home "feeling unwell" and it's not recorded as sick time.
With JPA around the corner and harmonising of ToS - see self certifying claims- will this cheats charter become part of the military malingerers arsenal.
With JPA around the corner and harmonising of ToS - see self certifying claims- will this cheats charter become part of the military malingerers arsenal.
Re: People going sick.
Back to the plot....
Medically unfit Civvy Street = Sick pay followed by No Job.
Medically unfit RAF = Job on full pay. And lots of other people suffer.
Your in a fighting force, I was in a fighting force and was deployed early three times for OOA because of sickness.
Im amazed in these days of stretch etc the powers that be have done nothing about this.
May not be there fault there sick but neither is the fault of the setion that has to carry the burden.
Downgraded should in my book equal no job unless you are upgraded within six months.
Medically unfit Civvy Street = Sick pay followed by No Job.
Medically unfit RAF = Job on full pay. And lots of other people suffer.
Your in a fighting force, I was in a fighting force and was deployed early three times for OOA because of sickness.
Im amazed in these days of stretch etc the powers that be have done nothing about this.
May not be there fault there sick but neither is the fault of the setion that has to carry the burden.
Downgraded should in my book equal no job unless you are upgraded within six months.
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Re: People going sick.
Skeleton
Of course that would work. So Flt Lt Smith, I know that you are medically downgraded as a result of your ejection from your Tornado. I know that you only ejected after your aircraft was hit by enemy fire and you heroically stayed with the aircraft until you were sure that it would miss the nearest school/hospital/nunnery etc. I also know that there are loads of flying related ground jobs that you could be employed in productively for the remainder of your career, that would benefit from your vast amount of flying experience. However, you have now been downgraded for 6 months so you will have to leave - rules (as instigated by Mr Skeleton) are rules. Oh and by the way your mate who is fully fit will now have to be posted from a flying tour to a ground appointment thus exacerbating the gapping of pilots on front-line sqns.
Things are never that black and white.
Downgraded should in my book equal no job unless you are upgraded within six months.
Things are never that black and white.
Last edited by Climebear; 16th Jan 2006 at 18:51.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Re: People going sick.
You could argue that some medically downgraded personnel should have their X-factor (deployment plus b*gg*r factor) reduced. The precedent is the FTRS guys that are either full commitment, limited or home only. The latter earn 15% less than the FC guys.
That way you have a financial carrot - get fit and earn more - get out - or put up and shut up.
That way you have a financial carrot - get fit and earn more - get out - or put up and shut up.
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Re: People going sick.
It's very easy to say if medically downgraded - get rid.
Would you differentiate between a person who was downgraded as a result of an injury whilst on duty, a genuine sickness that is no fault of the person (cancer..??), an injury that they could take action to prevent (smoking), a sports injury or an accident whilst off duty?
Also, I have to agree with Mova about posting so much detail about a problem on here. Turn the posts round and imagine how Mr Wippy would feel if his SAC was to post a question on a site asking how she could deal with SNCO who doesn't help her with becoming one of the team or something similar.
Would you differentiate between a person who was downgraded as a result of an injury whilst on duty, a genuine sickness that is no fault of the person (cancer..??), an injury that they could take action to prevent (smoking), a sports injury or an accident whilst off duty?
Also, I have to agree with Mova about posting so much detail about a problem on here. Turn the posts round and imagine how Mr Wippy would feel if his SAC was to post a question on a site asking how she could deal with SNCO who doesn't help her with becoming one of the team or something similar.
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Re: People going sick.
I passed my TATs, but Flt/Sgt didnt think i should be promoted [clash of personality], but Adminers went ahead and promoted me anyway. So Mr Wippy probably wouldnt have been able to withhold promotion even if he'd wanted to.
Re: People going sick.
PN
Top suggestion, it'll never work though as it has sensible stamped all over it
One suggestion, start everyone at lowest level, ie no X-factor, on attestation. Then through training assess everyones level and assign them thier new pay band. Length of service issues could also be addressed at this point.
BTW doesn't a discharge due to a service "incident" attract a medical pension?
Top suggestion, it'll never work though as it has sensible stamped all over it
One suggestion, start everyone at lowest level, ie no X-factor, on attestation. Then through training assess everyones level and assign them thier new pay band. Length of service issues could also be addressed at this point.
BTW doesn't a discharge due to a service "incident" attract a medical pension?
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Re: People going sick.
I was a victim of (to use the words of a Lt Col specialist) a totally unjustified downgrade. I was downgraded for nearly 18 months and in that time I exhausted every avenue to get the upgrade. I am in a job where deployments last on average 4 weeks so with a bit of judicious date massaging I missed out on nothing my fit colleagues were doing. But how annoyed would I have been if I had been out of pocket during this time?
One solution to Mr W's problem is to get everyone down to a bar and fill her and her colleagues with booze, light blue touch paper and retire to a safe distance and let the laws of natual selection run their course.
One solution to Mr W's problem is to get everyone down to a bar and fill her and her colleagues with booze, light blue touch paper and retire to a safe distance and let the laws of natual selection run their course.
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Re: People going sick.
Is it just me or can the rest of you see the striking similarity between moventhing, southsh1te, admin guru, hyd3 et al
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
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Originally Posted by movadinkampa747
Oh hello. Surely the individual should have a right of redress as it is they who is being discussed here on an open forum. And whats with the insults?
My last unit (Tri- Service)...the R word was used often by our junior service personnel.............scared the hell out of them............. Is it a management tool used at Cranditz and other training establishments?
For the record...........I am not an air cadet, mover, policeman or any other ethnic military minority!!!
As a caring Divisional Officer of many years...............I never once thought of posting in a forum to get answers to a particular problem....................how very very bizarre!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
747, whist not disagreeing that even recruits might qualify for the X-factor, the precedent for removing the X-factor from recruits or at least scaling it back is in FIP.
Flying Intructional Pay was first scaled back and then stopped in the late 80s on the grounds that the guys (before dolls) wanted to fly and did not need the inducement of FIP.
Therefore we could conclude that the recruit wnats to join and thus does not need an X-factor inducement.
If the X-factor was graded and reduced under certain circumstance then more dosh could be spread where it does most good. I am not advocating X-factor for FS X cause he is in a deployable job and no X factor for FS Y cause he is in a non-deployable job. Both would get it because in themselves they are both deployable. FS X would have his scaled back if he were unfit or declined to be deployed. A small difference. Similarly Y would also have his reduced if his MES was lowered.
Flying Intructional Pay was first scaled back and then stopped in the late 80s on the grounds that the guys (before dolls) wanted to fly and did not need the inducement of FIP.
Therefore we could conclude that the recruit wnats to join and thus does not need an X-factor inducement.
If the X-factor was graded and reduced under certain circumstance then more dosh could be spread where it does most good. I am not advocating X-factor for FS X cause he is in a deployable job and no X factor for FS Y cause he is in a non-deployable job. Both would get it because in themselves they are both deployable. FS X would have his scaled back if he were unfit or declined to be deployed. A small difference. Similarly Y would also have his reduced if his MES was lowered.