RAF Boulmer closure to be reviewed
Thread Starter
Oops.
Agreed. That was a theatre specific need though and worked well. IF you are on the sane base it is stupid nort to work togetjher (I did a 2 year accompanied tour there 1999 to 2001.!) Mind you, most VC10 crews and F3 types never did visit even though they had to drive past us to get to the mess!!!!
Brit 55.
Your attitude is refeshing and I appreciate your point of view totally. Unfortunately, you do not represent the mainstream of the FJ community.
Reference where we go next. From a UK point of view if we have to move, then I would vote for co-location with ATC as that would enhance out ability to 'Police' our sovereign airspace more robustly.
I would however, vote for dedicated controllers on Sqns if we could send our older, fatter, more experienced individuals that wouuld be treated with the respect that they desrve.
Agreed. That was a theatre specific need though and worked well. IF you are on the sane base it is stupid nort to work togetjher (I did a 2 year accompanied tour there 1999 to 2001.!) Mind you, most VC10 crews and F3 types never did visit even though they had to drive past us to get to the mess!!!!
Brit 55.
Your attitude is refeshing and I appreciate your point of view totally. Unfortunately, you do not represent the mainstream of the FJ community.
Reference where we go next. From a UK point of view if we have to move, then I would vote for co-location with ATC as that would enhance out ability to 'Police' our sovereign airspace more robustly.
I would however, vote for dedicated controllers on Sqns if we could send our older, fatter, more experienced individuals that wouuld be treated with the respect that they desrve.
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Wyler,
not a bad point about working more closely with ATC. A point I had never thought of as your respective Branches seem so diverse and not exactly in love with each other!
B55
not a bad point about working more closely with ATC. A point I had never thought of as your respective Branches seem so diverse and not exactly in love with each other!
B55
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OOpsIdiditagain
When the FIADGE was relevant it would have been a bit difficult to drag in the controllers from Kent, Alice or Byron to the debriefs only to hear F-4 crew tell them how great aircrew mates were....again - and who'd have minded the shop while they were away?
Now the big question - if remoting works so well why not do airspace surveillance and control of the Falklands from somewhere more geographically conducive to enhanced C3I2 - say Barbados, leaving the windswept islands to our fast-jet brethren?
When the FIADGE was relevant it would have been a bit difficult to drag in the controllers from Kent, Alice or Byron to the debriefs only to hear F-4 crew tell them how great aircrew mates were....again - and who'd have minded the shop while they were away?
Now the big question - if remoting works so well why not do airspace surveillance and control of the Falklands from somewhere more geographically conducive to enhanced C3I2 - say Barbados, leaving the windswept islands to our fast-jet brethren?
"Mind you, most VC10 crews and F3 types never did visit even though they had to drive past us to get to the mess!!!!!
Bit of an ar$e comment, given that the '10 crews do constant 'Q' and probably only get to the Officers' Mess the night before they RTB back to the UK.
Or perhaps you didn't bother going over to the other side of the aerodrome to find out what they did?
Memories of several detachments to Base Aerea Gringo, Fuerza Area Malvinas do not include ever once having seen any FIADGE people visiting 1312 Flt.
Bit of an ar$e comment, given that the '10 crews do constant 'Q' and probably only get to the Officers' Mess the night before they RTB back to the UK.
Or perhaps you didn't bother going over to the other side of the aerodrome to find out what they did?
Memories of several detachments to Base Aerea Gringo, Fuerza Area Malvinas do not include ever once having seen any FIADGE people visiting 1312 Flt.
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BEags,
Controllers were petty-much stuck on the mountains for the whole tour the times I was there with no time to schmooze with the fly-boys , though the road to Kent hadn't been built then and of course the 101 was a glint in some boffin's eye - I think they managed a few dining-in nights at the Death-Star but that was about it. (But don’t tell OC FIADGE it was an SAC giving Delta control the following day)
Those awfully nice chaps at 23 let me look round the place one time and gave me a patch but that was about it.
I can’t believe I’m defending controllers again
Controllers were petty-much stuck on the mountains for the whole tour the times I was there with no time to schmooze with the fly-boys , though the road to Kent hadn't been built then and of course the 101 was a glint in some boffin's eye - I think they managed a few dining-in nights at the Death-Star but that was about it. (But don’t tell OC FIADGE it was an SAC giving Delta control the following day)
Those awfully nice chaps at 23 let me look round the place one time and gave me a patch but that was about it.
I can’t believe I’m defending controllers again
Thread Starter
Beagle.
Not an a*rse comment at all!
A controller visited every day either for a coffee or to talk over some work we were doing/wanted doing. I saw OC 1312 at least 4 times a week. I went over on a regular basis. I got as many of my troops flying as possible. As usual, it was a one way street.
In fairness, some of th OC's came across and we got some good info on Tanking.
Not an a*rse comment at all!
A controller visited every day either for a coffee or to talk over some work we were doing/wanted doing. I saw OC 1312 at least 4 times a week. I went over on a regular basis. I got as many of my troops flying as possible. As usual, it was a one way street.
In fairness, some of th OC's came across and we got some good info on Tanking.
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Blimey Wyler - the mutual attendance at dining in nights etc with 1312 Flt, 1435 Flt and 78 Sqn must have been a figment of my imagination. Perhaps the old memory doesn't serve me too well.
Similarly, as the ex-OC 1435 Flt (from the mid-1990s) is my Boss now, he appears to be suffering from the same collective amnesia.
Nostalgia ain't what it used to be!
Similarly, as the ex-OC 1435 Flt (from the mid-1990s) is my Boss now, he appears to be suffering from the same collective amnesia.
Nostalgia ain't what it used to be!
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Re: RAF Boulmer closure to be reviewed
Unfortunately, some of the F3 fleet do not understand what we do or what our scope is.( Wyler comment)
Actually Wyler old chum, your scope is that computer based fish bowl about 18 inches from your nose.
Anyway, what do I know about controlling? Well I remember sitting on Mt Kent in 84/85 and fixing a Toga party which cornered the market for WRAFs, WRACS and every other military female we could entice up the hill. Boy, was that a night!!
As a long time past member of the GDFC Branch my best advice to the rest of the real RAF is to post them all to Boulmer, and bolt the door from the outside once they are all in the bunker. Then sell the site for housing and forget all about them.
I spent 16 years of my life with that bunch and the only way out was to leave the service!! I still have the scars and occasionally wake up screaming "Stranger 350 range 2 miles closing" Anyway, the tablets help, so no worries.
In the dim distant past when I joined we were all rejects from some other branch, (I was chopped off jet Provosts) and spoofed at "Reselection" into joining the FC Branch. I remember at Patrington the first true volunteer FC officer arriving. How we all laughed!!!
I remember having a serious stand up row with a FC Sqn Ldr once at Buchan who insisted that he was more important than the aircrew, he could best place them to intercept the enemy. I told him that until he had a gun button on his radar console he was just whistling through his a***. Didn't win me any friends that night.
Someone commented that the ATC and FC people were to merge. Might happen I suppose, the average ATC bloke seemed better at getting 2 aircraft together than our people ever did, and most FC's couldn't get 2 fighters in the same Georef square. Anyway, "They" have been talking about it since the mid 70's as far as I can remember, so don't hold yer breath. Mind you, the way the RAF is contracting, they will need to amalgamate both branches in order to man the Tower at Scampton.
Have fun boys and girls,
Ray Darr
Actually Wyler old chum, your scope is that computer based fish bowl about 18 inches from your nose.
Anyway, what do I know about controlling? Well I remember sitting on Mt Kent in 84/85 and fixing a Toga party which cornered the market for WRAFs, WRACS and every other military female we could entice up the hill. Boy, was that a night!!
As a long time past member of the GDFC Branch my best advice to the rest of the real RAF is to post them all to Boulmer, and bolt the door from the outside once they are all in the bunker. Then sell the site for housing and forget all about them.
I spent 16 years of my life with that bunch and the only way out was to leave the service!! I still have the scars and occasionally wake up screaming "Stranger 350 range 2 miles closing" Anyway, the tablets help, so no worries.
In the dim distant past when I joined we were all rejects from some other branch, (I was chopped off jet Provosts) and spoofed at "Reselection" into joining the FC Branch. I remember at Patrington the first true volunteer FC officer arriving. How we all laughed!!!
I remember having a serious stand up row with a FC Sqn Ldr once at Buchan who insisted that he was more important than the aircrew, he could best place them to intercept the enemy. I told him that until he had a gun button on his radar console he was just whistling through his a***. Didn't win me any friends that night.
Someone commented that the ATC and FC people were to merge. Might happen I suppose, the average ATC bloke seemed better at getting 2 aircraft together than our people ever did, and most FC's couldn't get 2 fighters in the same Georef square. Anyway, "They" have been talking about it since the mid 70's as far as I can remember, so don't hold yer breath. Mind you, the way the RAF is contracting, they will need to amalgamate both branches in order to man the Tower at Scampton.
Have fun boys and girls,
Ray Darr
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Re: RAF Boulmer closure to be reviewed
Well I remember sitting on Mt Kent in 84/85
Welcome Ray
Re: RAF Boulmer closure to be reviewed
First of all, I am not waving the Dark Blue flag aka Navaleye or VECVECVECEVEC and not trying to get into a pi&&ing match, there is however some sense being talked on here. The RN experience is that close exposure of WCs to the aircraft and aircrew reaps massive benefits. For many years, Naval FW squadrons have had their own "D" (Fighter Controller) as part of the squadron. Yes they sometimes did get jobbed as staffy etc but not to the extent suggested earlier. At Sea it is even better, with all 6/7 FCs living alongside (not literally) the squadron pilots and going to all briefs and debriefs. This raises awareness on both sides and operational effectiveness all round. It means voices can be recognised (good in a spoofing environment) and tactics are fully briefed to all parties.
There is much to be said for much closer liaison although, I think that Scampton is a bit of a Red Herring and has probably got more to do with justifying an air base for the Dead Sparrows than anything else but, I am sure someone will correct me quite firmly on that statement!
By the way, why don't these smilies work anymore? Using the works computer with Windoze, they have no buttons around them although at home, they do work!
Oh well :-) ;-)
There is much to be said for much closer liaison although, I think that Scampton is a bit of a Red Herring and has probably got more to do with justifying an air base for the Dead Sparrows than anything else but, I am sure someone will correct me quite firmly on that statement!
By the way, why don't these smilies work anymore? Using the works computer with Windoze, they have no buttons around them although at home, they do work!
Oh well :-) ;-)
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Re: RAF Boulmer closure to be reviewed
Hi Maple, Thanks for the welcome to PPrune.
Back in Kent in 84/85 (pull up a sandbag) the radar was so bad that we never used it. We sat round a Ouija instead and held hands (No not like that!!!) Neil Wilmot was the CO then, followed by Kev Pellet who wonder of wonders eventually evolved into an Air Commode I'm told. Anyway, I left the mob in 87 giving up poor pay, duty, Queen and Country for capitalism, greed and the easy life.
Excuse me while I go for another Pimms
Yours, Ray
Oh yes - Boulmer? close the place and integrate into the real RAF. Both the zoomies and the scope dopes might learn from the experience. As for the ATC thing, They are all fine people, but I wouldn't want a child of mine marrying one.
Yours, R
Back in Kent in 84/85 (pull up a sandbag) the radar was so bad that we never used it. We sat round a Ouija instead and held hands (No not like that!!!) Neil Wilmot was the CO then, followed by Kev Pellet who wonder of wonders eventually evolved into an Air Commode I'm told. Anyway, I left the mob in 87 giving up poor pay, duty, Queen and Country for capitalism, greed and the easy life.
Excuse me while I go for another Pimms
Yours, Ray
Oh yes - Boulmer? close the place and integrate into the real RAF. Both the zoomies and the scope dopes might learn from the experience. As for the ATC thing, They are all fine people, but I wouldn't want a child of mine marrying one.
Yours, R
Thread Starter
Re: RAF Boulmer closure to be reviewed
Welcome Ray
So, we are crap yet it took you 16 years to summon up the courage to leave. How very odd. Passed over for promotion perhaps?
True though, in the 80's it was a novelty to find anyone on the course who was a direct entrant (it was my 3rd branch!).
However, some of us soldiered on and we thinned out the Navs with bandy legs and similar to move onto better things.
Where were you in 87? trying to place you.
So, we are crap yet it took you 16 years to summon up the courage to leave. How very odd. Passed over for promotion perhaps?
True though, in the 80's it was a novelty to find anyone on the course who was a direct entrant (it was my 3rd branch!).
However, some of us soldiered on and we thinned out the Navs with bandy legs and similar to move onto better things.
Where were you in 87? trying to place you.
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Re: RAF Boulmer closure to be reviewed
Wyler,
No old mate, some of us were quite good, but then most of us had only failed one course, not two, before we were dumped into the GDFC world. Anyway, if you are still in after 20 something years you must be a Verrry senior orficer by now. If so, why are you wasting my taxpayers money on this silly message board. Go and get some work done!!
I could tell you where I was in 87, but that would blow my cover and I'm worried that I have been so rude, you you might come round and punch me on the nose!!
Thinking back, there was one guy who became very senior, who told me that he was on pilot training, but didn't like it, so chopped himself to join the FC Branch. Can you believe that!!!
All the best, Ray
No old mate, some of us were quite good, but then most of us had only failed one course, not two, before we were dumped into the GDFC world. Anyway, if you are still in after 20 something years you must be a Verrry senior orficer by now. If so, why are you wasting my taxpayers money on this silly message board. Go and get some work done!!
I could tell you where I was in 87, but that would blow my cover and I'm worried that I have been so rude, you you might come round and punch me on the nose!!
Thinking back, there was one guy who became very senior, who told me that he was on pilot training, but didn't like it, so chopped himself to join the FC Branch. Can you believe that!!!
All the best, Ray
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The Hansard statement on RAF Scampton hints at a further review of ASACS sites:
"Increased site preparation cost estimates at RAF Scampton have caused us to review whether this location remained the best value for money option for a communications hub. This work has now concluded and, subject to Trades Unions consultation, I have decided that the RAF communications hub will be formed at RAF Leeming (North Yorkshire) instead of RAF Scampton as this will be significantly more cost effective.
This means that communications personnel would move from RAF Sealand to RAF Leeming by April 2006. Communications personnel from RAF Brize Norton and RAF High Wycombe would move to RAF Leeming in 2007. The future location of ASACS units, currently at RAF Scampton, RAF Kirton-in-Lindsey and RAF Boulmer, will be the subject of further work."
Does anyone have any clue what will be included - a fair chance of another U-turn I think!
AonP
"Increased site preparation cost estimates at RAF Scampton have caused us to review whether this location remained the best value for money option for a communications hub. This work has now concluded and, subject to Trades Unions consultation, I have decided that the RAF communications hub will be formed at RAF Leeming (North Yorkshire) instead of RAF Scampton as this will be significantly more cost effective.
This means that communications personnel would move from RAF Sealand to RAF Leeming by April 2006. Communications personnel from RAF Brize Norton and RAF High Wycombe would move to RAF Leeming in 2007. The future location of ASACS units, currently at RAF Scampton, RAF Kirton-in-Lindsey and RAF Boulmer, will be the subject of further work."
Does anyone have any clue what will be included - a fair chance of another U-turn I think!
AonP
