"warfighters first"
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"warfighters first"
Hi there, I was wondering if some of you could help?
I've been asked a question for a presentation at my base - "We should be warriors first, tradesmen second"
Anyone have any thoughts - sorry it's a little bit cryptic!
I've been asked a question for a presentation at my base - "We should be warriors first, tradesmen second"
Anyone have any thoughts - sorry it's a little bit cryptic!
You hear this all the time..soldier first, blah second.
I agree with the sentiment. In times of crisis you should have the skills and be prepared to defend yourself, use a personal weapon etc. Hopefully it should never come to that.
In reality though, most personnel do not specialise in soldiering. Annual CCS does not ground people well enough to be a professional soldier, however professional training allows them to carry out their specialisation with the required skill. I mean, in reality, I reckon a fair few paper pushers would be more of a hindrance in a field type environment than a help.
I agree with the sentiment. In times of crisis you should have the skills and be prepared to defend yourself, use a personal weapon etc. Hopefully it should never come to that.
In reality though, most personnel do not specialise in soldiering. Annual CCS does not ground people well enough to be a professional soldier, however professional training allows them to carry out their specialisation with the required skill. I mean, in reality, I reckon a fair few paper pushers would be more of a hindrance in a field type environment than a help.
When you are giving your presentation ask the following 2 questions:
1. Is leadership best done by example?
2. In that case, why are Wing Commanders and above allowed to ditch CCS?
I asked this very question in the RAF news and the answer was that, by the time you get to Wg Cdr, you are an 'expert' in such matters.
Whilst I agree that the majority are experts within their specialisation I disagree that they are naturally savvy about more general gung ho stuff. In fact, a fair proportion of them are a damned liability out of the office!
For your presentation, look at the deployed Force trg thats being brought in. Look at the reasoning behind that and you will be well prepared to deliver death by Power Point. (The SFC will point you in the right direction).
1. Is leadership best done by example?
2. In that case, why are Wing Commanders and above allowed to ditch CCS?
I asked this very question in the RAF news and the answer was that, by the time you get to Wg Cdr, you are an 'expert' in such matters.
Whilst I agree that the majority are experts within their specialisation I disagree that they are naturally savvy about more general gung ho stuff. In fact, a fair proportion of them are a damned liability out of the office!
For your presentation, look at the deployed Force trg thats being brought in. Look at the reasoning behind that and you will be well prepared to deliver death by Power Point. (The SFC will point you in the right direction).
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1. Is leadership best done by example?
2. In that case, why are Wing Commanders and above allowed to ditch CCS?
2. In that case, why are Wing Commanders and above allowed to ditch CCS?
Senior officers - take up your trainers and rebel - take the fitness tests despite your rank!
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Same at a fighter base (pre-F3) in Lincolnshire. The staish waived the right for the execs to be exempt.
Back to the question. Try Churchill for it was he who said the RAF should defend itself and not expect the army to do it for them. However we are going the same, right, way enlarging the professional corps as a skilled tradesman cannot be afforded to waste his time doing extramural duties. Fight or defend the base and his unit but not be diverted to doing another professionals job.
Back to the question. Try Churchill for it was he who said the RAF should defend itself and not expect the army to do it for them. However we are going the same, right, way enlarging the professional corps as a skilled tradesman cannot be afforded to waste his time doing extramural duties. Fight or defend the base and his unit but not be diverted to doing another professionals job.
Quite right PN.
It's ax admirable notion, but even with the best will in the world, people like us are not going to be useful for much more than maintaining security in the immediate workspace. Unless of course, we all go through the basic Gunner course and the various specialist ones!
How could I be an effective soldier when I get to live shoot every couple of years, and then it's only about 30 rounds! Mind you, a few sharpened death spanners and poison-tipped screwdrivers could be handy...
It's ax admirable notion, but even with the best will in the world, people like us are not going to be useful for much more than maintaining security in the immediate workspace. Unless of course, we all go through the basic Gunner course and the various specialist ones!
How could I be an effective soldier when I get to live shoot every couple of years, and then it's only about 30 rounds! Mind you, a few sharpened death spanners and poison-tipped screwdrivers could be handy...
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I have faced this dilemma on exercises in the cold war days - do we ask our tradesmen to guard and accept no serviceable aircraft in the morning - or do we work on the aircraft and let the intruders in because the reinforcements for guarding did not arrive?
No point working on aircraft if they are unguarded and no point having military tradesmen (and women) unless they can fight. Civilians can specialise, military are fighting men (and women).
No point working on aircraft if they are unguarded and no point having military tradesmen (and women) unless they can fight. Civilians can specialise, military are fighting men (and women).
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'Warfighter first, specialist second' does not mean the same as 'soldier first, specialist second'. It just means that you should expect to do your job in austere operational conditions, exposed to a level of danger that requires a greater degree of self protection skills and flexibility than the hotels-on-detachment element of the RAF has typically needed in the past. Although some extra training will be required the most important thing is the change of mindset to accept this.
No one with any brain cells is seriously suggesting that anyone in the RAF (exempt Regiment obviously) is ever going to be a soldier and still perform their primary duty.
No one with any brain cells is seriously suggesting that anyone in the RAF (exempt Regiment obviously) is ever going to be a soldier and still perform their primary duty.
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Thanks, I'm getting some really good stuff here, loads I can use in my presentation.
One thing though, does anyone here know who made the original statement, and what were his reasons for saying it? One source tells me it was ACM Stirrup, others tell me it was ACM Burridge.
All your opinions are greatly appreciated on this subject, it's a bit of a tricky one, other people got lucky and get to do GBAD or Close Air Support!
One thing though, does anyone here know who made the original statement, and what were his reasons for saying it? One source tells me it was ACM Stirrup, others tell me it was ACM Burridge.
All your opinions are greatly appreciated on this subject, it's a bit of a tricky one, other people got lucky and get to do GBAD or Close Air Support!
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I'd hazard a guess that you are on No1 ACC?
Well, if so, you've done a fair bit of working away from home this year and probably had to look at the FP side of things before setting out the rest of your stall.
That said, could you operate as an air defence unit whilst running around in the grass with a rifle or, is it one or the other?
I agree with an earlier statement which suggested that 'warrior first, tradesman second' is not the same as 'soldier first...' In the RAF, we often have to operate as individual specialists under the protective umbrella of the professional soldier. I'm not too sure that it is possible to operate out there on our own in todays shrinking RAF.
I think the CINC's statement (I think it was Burridge that said this) points towards us being willing to operate in austere environments and still perform our tasks to the best of our ability.
How many of your Fighter Controllers are warriors first?
Well, if so, you've done a fair bit of working away from home this year and probably had to look at the FP side of things before setting out the rest of your stall.
That said, could you operate as an air defence unit whilst running around in the grass with a rifle or, is it one or the other?
I agree with an earlier statement which suggested that 'warrior first, tradesman second' is not the same as 'soldier first...' In the RAF, we often have to operate as individual specialists under the protective umbrella of the professional soldier. I'm not too sure that it is possible to operate out there on our own in todays shrinking RAF.
I think the CINC's statement (I think it was Burridge that said this) points towards us being willing to operate in austere environments and still perform our tasks to the best of our ability.
How many of your Fighter Controllers are warriors first?
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I think it is even simpler than that, after all the reach of airpower means that we can - sometimes - stay at home and still provide effect to a joint commander (obviously not to the same scale as the B2 force though).
Warfighter first is a mindset. It means that we are primarily airmen and RAF officers; therefore, our profession should be the employment of air power. We should all have a level of understanding of what this entails which is, in its simplest form, warfighting from the air (and space for any FASOC junkies). Being an infantry soldier is a specialism, as is being a techie, chef, mover, air traffic controller or even a Harrier pilot. So a gunner (like any specialist) needs to appreciate both that he is primarily involved in the prosecution of air power and what that entails and that he uses both his basic Service skills as an AIRman and his specialist skills as a gunner to achieve it.
This is the same as the Army's 'soldier first' given that that organization's purpose is Land combat (with a little bit of air) - or 'soldiering'.
Warfighter first is a mindset. It means that we are primarily airmen and RAF officers; therefore, our profession should be the employment of air power. We should all have a level of understanding of what this entails which is, in its simplest form, warfighting from the air (and space for any FASOC junkies). Being an infantry soldier is a specialism, as is being a techie, chef, mover, air traffic controller or even a Harrier pilot. So a gunner (like any specialist) needs to appreciate both that he is primarily involved in the prosecution of air power and what that entails and that he uses both his basic Service skills as an AIRman and his specialist skills as a gunner to achieve it.
This is the same as the Army's 'soldier first' given that that organization's purpose is Land combat (with a little bit of air) - or 'soldiering'.
I am positive that I have had the phrase "soldier first, tradesman second" said to me by a superior whilst in training, and they meant it just as I quoted it in my first post. I didn't know the phrases origin - does this mean it has been misquoted to me, and there was originally never any intent for it to mean we are all meant to be 'soldiers'?
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'Soldier first, tradesman second' is the Army's mantra, and is oft quoted. They can apply it to a reasonable degree too, although some of the more technical trades probably struggle - particularly if the Apaches aren't going to fall out of the sky!
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Climebear - tut, tut! Providing 'effect' and specialisms ??!! Wash your mouth out man!
At risk of stooping so low, you cannot 'provide' effect - you may well provide a service, conduct an activity or in some other respect 'do something' that may, or may not, create an effect. This may seem somewhat pedantic but it is rather tedious having to endure the 'effect' word banded about meaninglessly.
As for 'specialism'....!!*@*!
[Rant off]
Otherwise, good point!
At risk of stooping so low, you cannot 'provide' effect - you may well provide a service, conduct an activity or in some other respect 'do something' that may, or may not, create an effect. This may seem somewhat pedantic but it is rather tedious having to endure the 'effect' word banded about meaninglessly.
As for 'specialism'....!!*@*!
[Rant off]
Otherwise, good point!
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guys 'n' gals
Do what you'r good at... in some cases thats breaking airplanes and others its fixing the broken airplanes....
leave the war fighting bit to the squaddies... thats what we do... but that is not to say you shouldnt be able to pick a weapon up and be able to use it to the detriment of those in front of it, rather than those stood next to you or come to that sat in the cookhouse!!!! Every one in the services should be able to carry out effective local defence.
As already mentioned 30 rounds a year is no good to man nor beast and only has a training value to the arms storeman demanding the stuff!!! 3000 rnds maybe
And as for Guard Duty!!! dont make me laugh.... some are very good, but others? well ok........ dont give up the day job though and what with the current availability states wouldnt it be better to use the Rocks on the gates and the Techs in the hangers?
Talkin about the gate... the next 'cover' that tracks me in with his finger ON the trigger.....
Do what you'r good at... in some cases thats breaking airplanes and others its fixing the broken airplanes....
leave the war fighting bit to the squaddies... thats what we do... but that is not to say you shouldnt be able to pick a weapon up and be able to use it to the detriment of those in front of it, rather than those stood next to you or come to that sat in the cookhouse!!!! Every one in the services should be able to carry out effective local defence.
As already mentioned 30 rounds a year is no good to man nor beast and only has a training value to the arms storeman demanding the stuff!!! 3000 rnds maybe
And as for Guard Duty!!! dont make me laugh.... some are very good, but others? well ok........ dont give up the day job though and what with the current availability states wouldnt it be better to use the Rocks on the gates and the Techs in the hangers?
Talkin about the gate... the next 'cover' that tracks me in with his finger ON the trigger.....
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Captain Kirk
You have missed my point. Read the sentence again. The 'we' is collective and refers to the RAF. Of course we (the RAF) can provide effect - and do it from home base; Bruggen based Tornados delivered kinetic effects accross Serbia and early UK based Bomber Command produced both kenetic and non-kinetic effects across a significant proportion of the European mainland.
Always a Spapper
You are confusing war fighting with soldiering. You do land combat (with some arms doing close combat); however, that is not the totallity of war fighting. In happens on a far wider scale than the one that exists within the significant geographical constraints of the LAND component.
You have missed my point. Read the sentence again. The 'we' is collective and refers to the RAF. Of course we (the RAF) can provide effect - and do it from home base; Bruggen based Tornados delivered kinetic effects accross Serbia and early UK based Bomber Command produced both kenetic and non-kinetic effects across a significant proportion of the European mainland.
Always a Spapper
You are confusing war fighting with soldiering. You do land combat (with some arms doing close combat); however, that is not the totallity of war fighting. In happens on a far wider scale than the one that exists within the significant geographical constraints of the LAND component.
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It is far more than doing a bit of 'local defence' Sapper. Telic 1 saw the real change in location, situation and operational deployment of RAF forces. TSW, TCW, 2 MT, 85 ELW, JHC all saw RAF going far forward and working off base. The poor guys on 2 MT were regularly bumped whilst trucking as far forward as most anything from the Army and TSW saw some nasty places.
The RAF no longer fights from 'under concrete' and has to go to the same crappy places as the Army. We need to have far more basic military skills, such as patrolling, convoy procedures and contact drills. To me, that is the 'warfighter first' part of the equation.
The RAF no longer fights from 'under concrete' and has to go to the same crappy places as the Army. We need to have far more basic military skills, such as patrolling, convoy procedures and contact drills. To me, that is the 'warfighter first' part of the equation.
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|War Fighters
During my IOT in the predictable days of the Cold War, most aircrew OCDTs saw this as a step towards a lucrative career in the airlines. One of the DS reminded us on Day One: 'Your job is to bomb the Queen's enemies'. Slightly sobering but, at the time, remakably remote...
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USMC
A few years ago, whilst on a trip to Fort Bragg, a grizzled CWO from 7th SFG told me that USMC pilots are considered the best at CAS by US Special Forces. He attributed their reputation for dependability to the fact that once a year every USMC pilot, wso etc. gets out their BDU's and re-aquaints themselves with basic infantry tactics attached to a 'grunt' unit.