"warfighters first"
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ACM Burridge has made this statement. Is he saying this is how the RAF is or did he say it to try and change us to being more like that?
In this Brief we are going to have to say how it is now and where we are heading in the future.
If anyone can help us; me and scope-eee on this it will be very much appreciated.
In this Brief we are going to have to say how it is now and where we are heading in the future.
If anyone can help us; me and scope-eee on this it will be very much appreciated.
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I am indeed on 1 ACC!
A lot depends on your definition of warfighter. Is it the same as soldier?
Our recent exercise showed us how difficult it is to operate in a hostile environment. But the RAF needs to be able operate to do its job, and therefore win the war. For that, we need to be able to keep ourselves alive in the field, therefore we need to know our CCS etc. But what use are we if we spend so much time fighting on the ground that we cant get the aircraft in the air and win the war? Isn't that the RAF definition of warfighting?
Or maybe ACM Burridge meant that we should all be prepared to down tools, get down and dirty and fight?
A lot depends on your definition of warfighter. Is it the same as soldier?
Our recent exercise showed us how difficult it is to operate in a hostile environment. But the RAF needs to be able operate to do its job, and therefore win the war. For that, we need to be able to keep ourselves alive in the field, therefore we need to know our CCS etc. But what use are we if we spend so much time fighting on the ground that we cant get the aircraft in the air and win the war? Isn't that the RAF definition of warfighting?
Or maybe ACM Burridge meant that we should all be prepared to down tools, get down and dirty and fight?
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Pontius Navigator
This is the speech (well, part of it) you see prominatly displayed in most station rock sections as a justification for doing CCS.
Whats convieniently forgotten is that when Churchil made this speech he was talking about setting up the RAF Regiment.
There is an interesting comment on the "B line" forum on Odihams intranet site to do with Guard (room) manning. In this day and age of "Lean" should the Air Force not be using the regiment it employs to defend it's airfields to actually defend it's airfields!
30 rounds a year? I only get to "fire" 30 shots a year on a video game, unless your on guard of course!!
Lets face it, if this country had to rely on a group of techies, suppliers, MT drivers and (god help us) aircrew to attack anything with rifles and bayonets fixed, I think it would be pretty obvious that we'd lost the war!!
I've always said, techies should be armed with pistols and maybe combat shotguns. After all, I doubt whether I could really hit anything far away and running - could you??
Try Churchill for it was he who said the RAF should defend itself and not expect the army to do it for them.
Whats convieniently forgotten is that when Churchil made this speech he was talking about setting up the RAF Regiment.
There is an interesting comment on the "B line" forum on Odihams intranet site to do with Guard (room) manning. In this day and age of "Lean" should the Air Force not be using the regiment it employs to defend it's airfields to actually defend it's airfields!
30 rounds a year? I only get to "fire" 30 shots a year on a video game, unless your on guard of course!!
Lets face it, if this country had to rely on a group of techies, suppliers, MT drivers and (god help us) aircrew to attack anything with rifles and bayonets fixed, I think it would be pretty obvious that we'd lost the war!!
I've always said, techies should be armed with pistols and maybe combat shotguns. After all, I doubt whether I could really hit anything far away and running - could you??
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A few years ago, whilst on a trip to Fort Bragg, a grizzled CWO from 7th SFG told me that USMC pilots are considered the best at CAS by US Special Forces. He attributed their reputation for dependability to the fact that once a year every USMC pilot, wso etc. gets out their BDU's and re-aquaints themselves with basic infantry tactics attached to a 'grunt' unit.
Their DPM helmet covers are 'cute' though.
Seeing as we are "Warfighters" then, can we at least start acting like it by getting rid of those who are physically or mentally prevented from being deployed, and also those who can't or won't pass their fitness tests. While we're at it, we could also weed out those who are simply not cut out for the military rather than carrying them and mollycoddling them.
Make the statement, then follow it with action; or don't bother making it at all.
Make the statement, then follow it with action; or don't bother making it at all.
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Hear hear. However...
Do we sling out the ones who were injured loyally carrying out their duties, and can no longer be deployed, yet provide years of experience and wisdom and can certainly do things like Shift Chief, instructor or perhaps Chief Clark?
Do we sling out the ones who were injured loyally carrying out their duties, and can no longer be deployed, yet provide years of experience and wisdom and can certainly do things like Shift Chief, instructor or perhaps Chief Clark?
Reckon we should hang on to those injured doing their duties. Our old billy mate McNab, whilst perhaps misguided, gave a lot of Kudos to the boys from hereford for looking after their own when they should have been invalided. As one who has looked down the wrong end of a medical discharge (albeit briefly) I would have felt an awful lot more comfortable knowing my skills could have been re-used in a (non-deployable) job, rather than just binning me entirely. Would have boosted morale no end! Fortunately I had an excellent physio and RI behind me who dragged my arse out the other end....
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How about binning those who have injuries from sport!
I know plenty of people who have carried on playing football etc. against their doctors advice because their ankles or knees have gone.
Isn't there a charge for self inflicted injuries???
I know plenty of people who have carried on playing football etc. against their doctors advice because their ankles or knees have gone.
Isn't there a charge for self inflicted injuries???
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Agree with the comments about injuries, however the fat b@stards (and for some reason they are almost always stackers- no offence intended to the "duvet consultants" out there, but empirical evidence speaks for itself) who have to go to the tailors to have extra panels sewn into their shirts need to either find the salad bar or a new line of work. Some of them are great chaps, but they just make the place look untidy and make a loadies calculations a nightmare.
Actually, come to think of it, let's get shot of the gingers too. The colour-clash with the blue-grey is unbearable.
Actually, come to think of it, let's get shot of the gingers too. The colour-clash with the blue-grey is unbearable.
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however the fat b@stards (and for some reason they are almost always stackers- no offence intended to the "duvet consultants" out there, but empirical evidence speaks for itself)
As a 'stacker' who has recently been posted to a major noise making facility in the south I was appalled the other week when doing my AFT by how many folk (mainly techies) on these fast paced, JHC squadrons struggled or just plain failed this very simple test.
Yes there are some 'larger' Suppliers around (my previous boss needed special measure body armour ordered for Op Telic) but to suggest that Supply has the lions share of the RAF's fat and unfit is in my opinion a little naive.
One thing I will say about my 'beloved' trade though is we do seem to have a hell of a lot of twisted sock types in the SNCO ranks. 57% of Sgts in the Supply trade are non-deployable, mainly through downgrading. Some may argue that a lifetime of lifting heavy stacks of blankets onto shelves takes its toll on a man but personally I think its something else. As someone touched upon earlier, you see plenty of downgraded folk still doing sports and Adv Trg.
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Part of the problem there is the fact they make it almost impossible to get upgraded!
There is also no sliding scale of down grading for groundcrew like aircrew have.
If they were able to grade people properly then perhaps more would be able to deploy.
The other thing stopping them deploying people is the duty of care stuff. If you choose to do active stuff whilst injured, it's up to you. If they deploy you injured, and you get worse (or injure someone else because of it) they get sued!
I'm sure there is a better way of dealing with injured people, but no doubt it's more difficult to administer than the one we have now...
There is also no sliding scale of down grading for groundcrew like aircrew have.
If they were able to grade people properly then perhaps more would be able to deploy.
The other thing stopping them deploying people is the duty of care stuff. If you choose to do active stuff whilst injured, it's up to you. If they deploy you injured, and you get worse (or injure someone else because of it) they get sued!
I'm sure there is a better way of dealing with injured people, but no doubt it's more difficult to administer than the one we have now...
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THS,
Sorry about that, on reflection your branch might not be the worst culprits. I recall in particular one middle-aged Cpl P&A clerk that had to stitch two stable belts together to get around his gut.
Sorry about that, on reflection your branch might not be the worst culprits. I recall in particular one middle-aged Cpl P&A clerk that had to stitch two stable belts together to get around his gut.
Warrior! Me? Never!!
If I'd wanted to do that sort of wet, muddy, noisy, hairy ar**d stuff I'd have become a pongo.
The old saying does it for me,: -
The Army walk into battle with their officers, the Navy ride into battle with their officers, we pat ours on the helmet and say "Get one for me Sir!"
Long may it continue
Doc C
If I'd wanted to do that sort of wet, muddy, noisy, hairy ar**d stuff I'd have become a pongo.
The old saying does it for me,: -
The Army walk into battle with their officers, the Navy ride into battle with their officers, we pat ours on the helmet and say "Get one for me Sir!"
Long may it continue
Doc C
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As someone who's spent some time with a USMC CAS sqn, there are definitely a couple of things we could learn from those guys.
First, though, let's dispel the myth of the USMC Harrier pilot running around with a grunt unit every year. From what I've seen, that's absolute rubbish. But a significant number of them will spend a year or so working as a ground FAC at the end of their first tour. (Don't the French do that too?)
But what they do is take their CCS a whole lot more seriously than the joke/waste of everybody's time that is RAF CCS. They do a week on the rifle range with the M-16, a week on the pistol range with the 9mm, a week of 'Semper Fu' = unarmed combat/hand-hand fighting + assorted days of first aid training / NBC etc etc. My unit also used to form up as a unit and go for a squadron run every couple of weeks with the CO and the Sgt Major out front, and the officers all running in with the troops. And if you fail the annual fitness test 3 times in a row, you get kicked out - how about that for an idea.
What's the point? I don't think they expect their engineers or admin staff to be defending the wire with their M-16 (but if they did, they'd probably do a more than reasonable job). But the net effect of all this is that every single person on the squadron, and base in fact, is totally focused on the mindset of killing bad guys / defending the Land of the Free etc. So when the squadron gets sent on back-to-back six month deployments to the sand pit, they have no shortage of volunteers to go. With very few exceptions, they want to go. They can't wait to go. They'd feel insulted if some other unit that wasn't half as good at turning out serviceable airplanes as theirs is was sent in their place.
Maybe I've been over here too long, but I'm a huge advocate of the 'warfighter first' mentality.
First, though, let's dispel the myth of the USMC Harrier pilot running around with a grunt unit every year. From what I've seen, that's absolute rubbish. But a significant number of them will spend a year or so working as a ground FAC at the end of their first tour. (Don't the French do that too?)
But what they do is take their CCS a whole lot more seriously than the joke/waste of everybody's time that is RAF CCS. They do a week on the rifle range with the M-16, a week on the pistol range with the 9mm, a week of 'Semper Fu' = unarmed combat/hand-hand fighting + assorted days of first aid training / NBC etc etc. My unit also used to form up as a unit and go for a squadron run every couple of weeks with the CO and the Sgt Major out front, and the officers all running in with the troops. And if you fail the annual fitness test 3 times in a row, you get kicked out - how about that for an idea.
What's the point? I don't think they expect their engineers or admin staff to be defending the wire with their M-16 (but if they did, they'd probably do a more than reasonable job). But the net effect of all this is that every single person on the squadron, and base in fact, is totally focused on the mindset of killing bad guys / defending the Land of the Free etc. So when the squadron gets sent on back-to-back six month deployments to the sand pit, they have no shortage of volunteers to go. With very few exceptions, they want to go. They can't wait to go. They'd feel insulted if some other unit that wasn't half as good at turning out serviceable airplanes as theirs is was sent in their place.
Maybe I've been over here too long, but I'm a huge advocate of the 'warfighter first' mentality.
A week of Semper Fu? Good god man, can you imagine how long we'd have to spend on risk assessment, health and safety, duty of care, investors in people, NVQ level blah, to be allowed to do that? It'd take years for the fluffy police to pass it!
For what it's worth, I feel the warfighter sentiment has some merit, it's just the way we go about things that makes it a joke.
For what it's worth, I feel the warfighter sentiment has some merit, it's just the way we go about things that makes it a joke.
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For what it's worth, I feel the warfighter sentiment has some merit, it's just the way we go about things that makes it a joke.
"We want a fit and healthy RAF on par with the Army, but unlike the Army you can't have any time off in which to get fit or even have official sports afternoons".
"The OFT is a great idea and will help to make sure folk are 'fit to fight'. But once again, we can't (won't) give you any time off in which to train so as a result we can't impose a pass/fail point, just best effort. Go on troops, fill that mock sandbag for your country".
Cynical? Moi?
There are far too many bloaters and twisted socks in the RAF, its about time we took a real leaf out of the Army way of doing things and jettisoned some of this dead wood.
"If I'd wanted to do that sort of wet, muddy, noisy, hairy ar**d stuff I'd have become a pongo."
Hear hear.
Watched an old documentary on the V-force on TV the other week - an interesting comparison to the way it is today.
3 or 4 times as many people, dozens more aerodromes, dozens more aircraft. That's just for starters. Only rock apes played pongoes, everyone else was either in a blue suit or a green growbag. No RAFFT, a simple 1 day GDT......
I recall the comment made by a Harrier mate on an exchange tour with the hoo-ah Mreenkaw in the 1980s. When invited to join in some jolly jockstrapping session, he retorted "Run? Good heavens no. British officers don't run - it would panic the troops!"
Hear hear.
Watched an old documentary on the V-force on TV the other week - an interesting comparison to the way it is today.
3 or 4 times as many people, dozens more aerodromes, dozens more aircraft. That's just for starters. Only rock apes played pongoes, everyone else was either in a blue suit or a green growbag. No RAFFT, a simple 1 day GDT......
I recall the comment made by a Harrier mate on an exchange tour with the hoo-ah Mreenkaw in the 1980s. When invited to join in some jolly jockstrapping session, he retorted "Run? Good heavens no. British officers don't run - it would panic the troops!"
