Movers technical knowledge and 747 damage photos.
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Woahhhhhhhh - hold up there kids. Another wee-wee contest with nothing more than wet shoes and someone not realising he has a small willy.
There are Mover-bashing threads elsewhere. Let me be slightly more serious for a mo here - sorry:
If any of the 'holier-than-thou' crowd here has a single constructive input here, please raise it - here, with the Flight Safety Officer at their Unit, with the Movers. Anything to help prevent accidents like this really. Go on - I dare you to come up with something. Try it in a non-confrontational way (if you can). I'd certainly appreciate any input from the other pairs of eyes on the pan.
That is all.
There are Mover-bashing threads elsewhere. Let me be slightly more serious for a mo here - sorry:
If any of the 'holier-than-thou' crowd here has a single constructive input here, please raise it - here, with the Flight Safety Officer at their Unit, with the Movers. Anything to help prevent accidents like this really. Go on - I dare you to come up with something. Try it in a non-confrontational way (if you can). I'd certainly appreciate any input from the other pairs of eyes on the pan.
That is all.
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Can we all go back a bit further and find out why we are having to charter? Many times have I noticed AT frames parked all over a little corner of West Oxon and still seen CIVAIR hopping over the fence.
I recently overheard that VC10 and Tristar tasks are often (far from allways) cancelled because of a lack of crew, and by crew I mean Cabin Crew (CC). So apparently VC10 CC cannot op Tristar and vicky verky. Is this true? The very same RAF that banters around that good old phrase er...Flexibility is the key to air power!
Surely when it comes down to the flight safety aspects of both types, a door is a door (Tristar is more complex, yes) and the fire extinguishers work on the same types of fire irrespective of acft type, and the first aid kits generally work as advertised irrespective of acft type, an oven fire is an oven fire (whoops there goes the crew meals) and the manual cabin crew briefing about how to put on a life jacket/O2 mask and the doors can be found here here and there...................
A few years ago I handed my blue suit in and moved into various shades of charcoal ones. My current airline operates Boeing/Airbus narrow bodies, Boeing/Airbus wide bodies. The cabin crew are trained to work in upto three types of cabin class on 5 different aircraft types. All regulated by JAR , CAA and FAA. Customer service levels are Q.A'd by an external independant agency.
My airline before that operated three types (6 varients) with common trained CC.
Commercially, airlines have learnt that you have to maximise your resources to achieve the best job at the best price. I really believe that for all the budget controls put into place over the last few years, nobody is looking at the Big Picture. Where are the long term planners within a transient blue workforce? The civvy suits with MOD accreditation react to whats put before them by the very same transient blue suit staffer's every 2-2.5 years. I suppose not being in a competitive environment means that really you have nothing to benchmark your self against.
No stability, no future from where I look over the fence. Oh, and the sooner NATO drops this acft sharing B~ll~cks deal the better. Is it right that the RAF cancels MOD tasks because we have to give back flying hours to nations that have had to cancel tasks of its own and sub charter other NATO AT ? You will forever be in each others pockets!
I recently overheard that VC10 and Tristar tasks are often (far from allways) cancelled because of a lack of crew, and by crew I mean Cabin Crew (CC). So apparently VC10 CC cannot op Tristar and vicky verky. Is this true? The very same RAF that banters around that good old phrase er...Flexibility is the key to air power!
Surely when it comes down to the flight safety aspects of both types, a door is a door (Tristar is more complex, yes) and the fire extinguishers work on the same types of fire irrespective of acft type, and the first aid kits generally work as advertised irrespective of acft type, an oven fire is an oven fire (whoops there goes the crew meals) and the manual cabin crew briefing about how to put on a life jacket/O2 mask and the doors can be found here here and there...................
A few years ago I handed my blue suit in and moved into various shades of charcoal ones. My current airline operates Boeing/Airbus narrow bodies, Boeing/Airbus wide bodies. The cabin crew are trained to work in upto three types of cabin class on 5 different aircraft types. All regulated by JAR , CAA and FAA. Customer service levels are Q.A'd by an external independant agency.
My airline before that operated three types (6 varients) with common trained CC.
Commercially, airlines have learnt that you have to maximise your resources to achieve the best job at the best price. I really believe that for all the budget controls put into place over the last few years, nobody is looking at the Big Picture. Where are the long term planners within a transient blue workforce? The civvy suits with MOD accreditation react to whats put before them by the very same transient blue suit staffer's every 2-2.5 years. I suppose not being in a competitive environment means that really you have nothing to benchmark your self against.
No stability, no future from where I look over the fence. Oh, and the sooner NATO drops this acft sharing B~ll~cks deal the better. Is it right that the RAF cancels MOD tasks because we have to give back flying hours to nations that have had to cancel tasks of its own and sub charter other NATO AT ? You will forever be in each others pockets!
Join Date: Feb 2003
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It was not my intention to be sexist against female ALM's..only trying to lighten the banter a bit...I met loads of ALM's of both sexes and always attempted to get on with them all...
Some on this group are definitaly too uptight all the time...!!!
747,
I award you my prize pratt of the year award, as you clearly have such great crystal balls as to be able to tell i'm not up to speed on current events...!!!! I was certainly aware of the title change to WSOP !!!
However, i was trained under old school methods, and so will always call them ALM's !!! As i think most of them agreed during my final time at a secret Wilts airbase, where in the back of an Albert would you define any item of freight or baggage as Weapons Systems ??? Nowwhere !!! Unless the aircraft is carrying lots of flash n bang stuff, but then this is still FREIGHT...Not Weapons Systems as far as the terminology would have it...!!!!
Some on this group are definitaly too uptight all the time...!!!
747,
I award you my prize pratt of the year award, as you clearly have such great crystal balls as to be able to tell i'm not up to speed on current events...!!!! I was certainly aware of the title change to WSOP !!!
However, i was trained under old school methods, and so will always call them ALM's !!! As i think most of them agreed during my final time at a secret Wilts airbase, where in the back of an Albert would you define any item of freight or baggage as Weapons Systems ??? Nowwhere !!! Unless the aircraft is carrying lots of flash n bang stuff, but then this is still FREIGHT...Not Weapons Systems as far as the terminology would have it...!!!!
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Even the title itself is sexist...
WSOP (Cmn) CREW MAN !!!!
http://www.rafcareers.com/jobs/job_files/jobfile_weapon_systems_operator_crewman.cfm
WSOP (Cmn) CREW MAN !!!!
http://www.rafcareers.com/jobs/job_files/jobfile_weapon_systems_operator_crewman.cfm
Join Date: Nov 2005
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We may not have technical knowledge, i grant you this. We do not to the best of my knowledge need any knowledge of aircraft systems other than ground power and ramps/doors.
To have an ALM there for all loading/unloading is going to increase over stretch in your trade, but igrant you this having a lunchmaster out there at 2 in the morning would be nice as we could have a brew while he decides how best to load the frame.
Just an after thought, if the ALMs load the aircraft who is going to load the DAC or Bang? Seeing as you are not qualified to do so!
To have an ALM there for all loading/unloading is going to increase over stretch in your trade, but igrant you this having a lunchmaster out there at 2 in the morning would be nice as we could have a brew while he decides how best to load the frame.
Just an after thought, if the ALMs load the aircraft who is going to load the DAC or Bang? Seeing as you are not qualified to do so!
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Rayon,
"Just an after thought, if the ALMs load the aircraft who is going to load the DAC or Bang? Seeing as you are not qualified to do so!"
Thankfully the next issue of the JSP 335 is going to squash that little "movements empire building" ploy
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
"Just an after thought, if the ALMs load the aircraft who is going to load the DAC or Bang? Seeing as you are not qualified to do so!"
Thankfully the next issue of the JSP 335 is going to squash that little "movements empire building" ploy
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
Join Date: Mar 2005
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The good thing with having a loadie around when the muppets are crawling around the poor vulnerable aeroplane is that there will be a witness to the hole put in said aeroplane by muppets motor vehicle. Seeing as the loadie will be flying with the aeroplane then where does overstretch come into this? It may effect crew duty time, but unless muppets render aeroplane u/s then I don't see a problem.
Oh, if you want a brew whilst awaiting the loadies final loading plan then I suggest you take out a thermos. They ain't there to feed and water you on the ground, or can't you be trusted with hot water?
Oh, if you want a brew whilst awaiting the loadies final loading plan then I suggest you take out a thermos. They ain't there to feed and water you on the ground, or can't you be trusted with hot water?
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Firstly,
monkeybumhead,
You have answered your own question:
'Seeing as the loadie will be flying with the aeroplane then where does overstretch come into this? It may effect crew duty time, but unless muppets render aeroplane u/s then I don't see a problem.'
The loading loadie will not, necessarily, operate on the flight given crew duty implications. Therefore, you need more loadies on the sqn or suffer overstretch - simple really.
Secondly,
Mr Hinecap has summed the issue up quite nicely. Banter is one thing, and is welcomed, but vitriolic outbursts with no factual foundation are pointless and, frankly, tell us more about the individual posting the comment rather than the subject.
monkeybumhead,
You have answered your own question:
'Seeing as the loadie will be flying with the aeroplane then where does overstretch come into this? It may effect crew duty time, but unless muppets render aeroplane u/s then I don't see a problem.'
The loading loadie will not, necessarily, operate on the flight given crew duty implications. Therefore, you need more loadies on the sqn or suffer overstretch - simple really.
Secondly,
Mr Hinecap has summed the issue up quite nicely. Banter is one thing, and is welcomed, but vitriolic outbursts with no factual foundation are pointless and, frankly, tell us more about the individual posting the comment rather than the subject.
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We shouldnt have to many loadies on the A/C when we load, the way we are going on we may dink them too!
Then we wouldnt move a thing about, the A/C would all be serviceable, but no one to fly with them.
I think accidents will always happen whether or not an ALM supervises or not, we are all fallible, just our mistakes get noticed more, esp a great big hole in the side or an aircraft.
We as a trade are aware accidents happen and as a result more training is given. All accidents are investigated and appropriate action taken when needed.
Yes we should keep this light-hearted as we are all in this together doing evermore tasking with less resources.
Any spelling mistakes are down to the facti should have tried harder at school!
Then we wouldnt move a thing about, the A/C would all be serviceable, but no one to fly with them.
I think accidents will always happen whether or not an ALM supervises or not, we are all fallible, just our mistakes get noticed more, esp a great big hole in the side or an aircraft.
We as a trade are aware accidents happen and as a result more training is given. All accidents are investigated and appropriate action taken when needed.
Yes we should keep this light-hearted as we are all in this together doing evermore tasking with less resources.
Any spelling mistakes are down to the facti should have tried harder at school!
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Attention ALM/WSOP (Cmn) and Movers, quit your bitching or we'll get you back working in SCAF.
Don't forget you were all Suppliers once upon a time....
Don't forget you were all Suppliers once upon a time....
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"Don't forget you were all Suppliers once upon a time...."
What utter utter b@@locks
I never have and never will be a feckin blanket stacker................ I have no cse, o levels, gcse, a levels etc but I am still far to over qualified to be a hoarder
I know of plenty of ground trades who have remustered to Aircrew but know of none that would try to swap to muppet/scuffer.......any thoughts on why
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
What utter utter b@@locks
I never have and never will be a feckin blanket stacker................ I have no cse, o levels, gcse, a levels etc but I am still far to over qualified to be a hoarder I know of plenty of ground trades who have remustered to Aircrew but know of none that would try to swap to muppet/scuffer.......any thoughts on why
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
Last edited by Always_broken_in_wilts; 12th Nov 2005 at 10:14.
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Ah Wilts,
You really do have some deep personal issues you need to discuss with someone. You may have no formal qualifications but it also seems you have no respect for anyone other than yourself. ;-)
MM
You really do have some deep personal issues you need to discuss with someone. You may have no formal qualifications but it also seems you have no respect for anyone other than yourself. ;-)
MM
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Loads of respect for plenty of others but complete lack of tolerance for idiots MM...................but as you are a muppet your lack of awareness is fully expected
"One can only assume then that the movements trade was created to accomodate the intelectually challenged stackers then."
Isn't it a supply trade pre requisite then??
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
"One can only assume then that the movements trade was created to accomodate the intelectually challenged stackers then."
Isn't it a supply trade pre requisite then??
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
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Idiot aircrew is a bit like intelligence officer........2 words that just don't go together, do get a grip of yourself MM and stop behaving like a schoolgirl, you old tart
all spelling mistakes re "df" alcohol induced
all spelling mistakes re "df" alcohol induced
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Wilts,
Perhaps you should look out from your own little fluffy world and realise that in fact YOUR constant moaning, bitching and trawling is making you and the others on this thread look like little schoolgirls.
Considering your suppose to be "professionals" you all act like little spoilt brats, quickly logging on to a public forum to air your petty hates and grudges.
You might have your bite Wilts, but at least I’ll log of safe in the knowledge I’m not a tit . YOU are the idiot aircrew I mentioned before.
Movers might bring alot of it on themselves but its a shame you and others have not got the balls to address your issues in an appropriate place rather than on the web….
Rant over
MM
Perhaps you should look out from your own little fluffy world and realise that in fact YOUR constant moaning, bitching and trawling is making you and the others on this thread look like little schoolgirls.
Considering your suppose to be "professionals" you all act like little spoilt brats, quickly logging on to a public forum to air your petty hates and grudges.
You might have your bite Wilts, but at least I’ll log of safe in the knowledge I’m not a tit . YOU are the idiot aircrew I mentioned before.
Movers might bring alot of it on themselves but its a shame you and others have not got the balls to address your issues in an appropriate place rather than on the web….
Rant over
MM
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Wilts,
" intelligence officer........2 words that just don't go together "
You've posted some crackers in the past but that has got to be your best ever. Well done old boy.
" intelligence officer........2 words that just don't go together "
You've posted some crackers in the past but that has got to be your best ever. Well done old boy.
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*Yawn* Did some people say something?
Always_Bleating - please, just to shock us, try to come up with somethng constructive. Your evident wisdom and experience in all matters of aviation (especially the roles of others) should be brought to bear upon this weighty subject.
I'm sure I speak for the rest of the bagmashing community when I say I live in hope of a pearl of your wisdom gracing us and improving our lives en route to our enlightenment.
Anyway - any of the rest out there got a constructive point? I personally think the Movers worst enemy is their positive attitude - the just do it mentality. It is a superlative trait found across the RAF, but I see it manifesting itself as a willingness to work around overstretch in an area that should not be that overstretched. Just to keep this from being a rant or personal attack you see.
Always_Bleating - please, just to shock us, try to come up with somethng constructive. Your evident wisdom and experience in all matters of aviation (especially the roles of others) should be brought to bear upon this weighty subject.
I'm sure I speak for the rest of the bagmashing community when I say I live in hope of a pearl of your wisdom gracing us and improving our lives en route to our enlightenment.
Anyway - any of the rest out there got a constructive point? I personally think the Movers worst enemy is their positive attitude - the just do it mentality. It is a superlative trait found across the RAF, but I see it manifesting itself as a willingness to work around overstretch in an area that should not be that overstretched. Just to keep this from being a rant or personal attack you see.