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Old 17th Oct 2005, 21:00
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Cdt

Ah, the joys of open arrest and peeing in a bottle whilst someone watches over your shoulder! It can only be CDT.
Whatever happened to "innocent untill proven guilty"!
Anyone care to try to convince me this doesn't infringe my civil liberties.
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Old 17th Oct 2005, 21:40
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OK then how about:
It doesn't infringe your civil liberties because it's an open condition of employment by an employer of your own free choice and you are "free" to leave at any time if CDT is a real problem for you.
Anyway, most big civvy companies do it now too (those that are worth working for at any rate)............so dry up.

Points? Questions?
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Old 17th Oct 2005, 21:44
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Is this the worst of your worries Cash Machine ? As TA says, it's a condition of your employment, I suppose that says it all really.

As the old saying goes, "if you've done nothing wrong, you've got nothing to worry about !"

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Old 17th Oct 2005, 21:59
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The only thing bad about CDT is being taken from your normal job and being recruited as one of the admin people that sit behind the desk and collect the pee vials. You go into work expecting a nice normal morning and end up bagging bottles of warm pee all morning.
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Old 17th Oct 2005, 22:41
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Cool

Blimey.......I thought you meant Crew Duty Time!!



(Returns to sheltered life........)
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Old 17th Oct 2005, 22:45
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CDT is a big thing out here as well. I have been tested 3 times in 2 years, randomly I add not for cause!!

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Old 17th Oct 2005, 23:21
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So I am free to leave at any time because I object to the principle of enforced CDT?

Does this bypass any PVR waiting times?

If prospective Tory leaders can stay silent about there use (or not) of recreational drugs, then what would they do if faced by a CDT?

If said prospective Tory leader made PM, would he continue to enforce CDT?

I have been tested once, but all the time I kept thinking, did I passivly inhale anything when I was in the pub last night? Would it show up?

Just how many 'dangers' to the armed services has this unreliable process uncovered (note I ask 'danger' to the services not positive tests)

missed me!
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Old 18th Oct 2005, 01:27
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I turned up to fly one night and was told I had been selected for the random drug test. (I choose to think it was because they thought i was the most responsible).

I said "So what do I do then? call them up and make an appointment?"

"Well if you do that" she said, fixing me with a baleful eye "it would hardly be random now would it?".


Good point. Still I passed the test (even though I had to guess at two of them).
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Old 18th Oct 2005, 07:17
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I agree about the worry of passively inhaling and failing cdt. These days people seem to roll up joints and smoke sat next to you on the bus or while walking down the high street.
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Old 18th Oct 2005, 07:56
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....and they never share..........
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Old 18th Oct 2005, 09:00
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We all do responsible jobs. On that basis...and presuming you are not taking mind distorting drugs yourself...don't you welcome the fact that this may help put weaker souls off abusing themselves.

In terms of operational experience, anything the plods and medics can do to make sure the lass or lad next to me cradling an armed GPMG isn't away with the fairies is very welcome.

Lighten up - if you're worried about CDT and peeing into a bottle I commend the Ronnie Barker sketch on same, with the memorable line when asked to use a bottle on the table some eight feet away responds "What, from over here?". RIP.
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Old 18th Oct 2005, 09:05
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So I am free to leave at any time because I object to the principle of enforced CDT?
Basically, yes.

Does this bypass any PVR waiting times?
Bascially, no, but that again is a condition of employment that you knew about when you took the job, or at least should've known about.

If prospective Tory leaders can stay silent about there use (or not) of recreational drugs, then what would they do if faced by a CDT?
Resign possibly, or look very stupid possibly, or deny everything possibly, (like politicians always do) but politicians and military are made in two very different moulds so to try and fit their "morales and ethics" in to our lifestyle is naive.

If said prospective Tory leader made PM, would he continue to enforce CDT?
You'd have to ask him that.

I have been tested once, but all the time I kept thinking, did I passivly inhale anything when I was in the pub last night? Would it show up?
Apparently not, but I believe if not entirely happy you can give an alternative more acccurate sample of claret insead of dry white, added to that you won't get banged up just because 5 mls of pi$$ shows positive. Funny weeds in the airing cupboard and a trade account with Rizla might just swing it though.
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Old 18th Oct 2005, 10:49
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I agree about the worry of passively inhaling and failing cdt
Seem to recall at a lecture given by the RAFP, we were told that unless you were in a phone booth with a guy smoking HUGE joints constantly for a few hours you wouldn't test positive for passive smoking.

Only problem is with the decline of the phone booth can you test positive via bluetooth?
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Old 18th Oct 2005, 13:58
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Cool CDT

When CDT his Cranditz, they take over the Sultan's Quaboos on the sports fields. The PTIs have taken this whole Force Development thread further by placing pro-CDT messages around the pavilion that read:

"Keep Off the Grass"!!!

If it don't fit, hit it harder....
 
Old 18th Oct 2005, 14:11
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Above Datums

You are quite right. I was once speaking to an 'adminer' (just the once ... honest) and she recalled a story about someone who had tested positively for smoking pot. The individual had claimed that it was as a result of passive smoking at a party; the analysis guys stated that said individual would have had to have been in a phone box for something like 6 hours with 3 people smoking joints to have the same level of 'whatever' in his blood. Personally I can't bear to be in a rancid BT phone box for the length of a short phone call let alone 6 hours.

Not that I am against CDT (I pesonally think it is great - I want to know that those who work for and with me and indeed those who I work for, are free from the effects of such a habit) but as for making it a condition of employment, how does it work that an employer can constantly add compulsory conditions, such as the addition of CDT, RAFFT, OFT etc, to those who are already in the job without some for of negotiation of terms of service. I know that the obvious answers include 'if you cant take the heat' and 'if you can't take a joke' etc but perhaps someone with a good head for employment law can answer this. (Not that I have ever seen my 'contract' anyway !!)
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Old 18th Oct 2005, 14:27
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So hang on....
CDT labs sniff your wee to see if you've been hanging around for six hours in a phone box?
Bearing in mind all phone boxes stink of wee anyway does this not confuse the results somewhat?

Or am I missing the point?
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Old 18th Oct 2005, 15:02
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she recalled a story about someone who had tested positively for smoking pot. The individual had claimed that it was as a result of passive smoking at a party; the analysis guys stated that said individual would have had to have been in a phone box for something like 6 hours with 3 people smoking joints
I think you adminer was remembering the "ad" that was shown on BFBS when the Army first introduced CDT. A young squaddie was shown saying his excuse was that was at a party and must have inhaled someones smoke..... cut to a phone box full of smoke and voice over of Frank Bruno saying what your adminer said.....
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Old 18th Oct 2005, 15:07
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rej

(Not that I have ever seen my 'contract' anyway !!)
That's because you don't have a contract (and your exempt from any employment law relating to contractual arrangements - including constructive dismissal), you are employed by 'Royal perogative'. So if you don't like it you can always speak to the Queen!
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Old 18th Oct 2005, 16:24
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November 4 - I know that this was an excused used by a certain airman as I was tasked conducting a different investigation in the same section.

Climbear - I don't recall saying I didn't like it, I was just intrigued as to how the terms of our service constantly being lengthened - and I don't really think even Queen is interested in our employment terms.
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Old 18th Oct 2005, 17:19
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rej

'They' can keep adding more or less what they want to your conditions and terms of service because it's a confidence trick, reliant on nobody seriously questioning the system. In theory we should be offered a new contract with the introduction of every mad cap idea - well certainly the ones you must be compliant with, hence the WRAFs in the mid-90s who were personally written to, IIRC to waive their right to be classed as non-combatant (...think it was something like that).

You'll also be aware of the urban legends who 'gave PMA a months notice' IAW European Law etc. Such people do exist but 'They' get rid of them as quietly as possible to maintain the confidence trick - it's really quite clever.

As for admin discharging someone who fails something like a CFT, they'd be on very dodgy ground legally if CFT fitness level wasn't a condition when that person joined; drugs is a little more black and white - 'They' just didn't have a test when 'we' joined.

I have few qualifications and don't know what I want to do when I leave the Circus, but leave I will - because I have to save my life; it's being eroded more and more every day in a very one-way relationship.
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