Secondary Duties???????
Adding to the fire....during Vietnam...a flying intensive exercise in futility....the US Army had the exact same attitude about secondary duties for Warrant Officers even. Never mind you were the Unit Standardization Instructor Pilot, flying training sorties in addition to a full slot on the the ops board....one had to have a secondary duty....to the extent extra duties were invented in order to provide you that opportunity to excel.
Don't get me started on other aspects of the brain dead being in charge....like "Zero Defects".....or "Scripted Exercises"....or does the RAF and British Army still embrace those concepts too?
At least the US Army finally went to free flow training....where events are played out as they happen....and one side loses....and it can be either side....and not done by script.
Don't get me started on other aspects of the brain dead being in charge....like "Zero Defects".....or "Scripted Exercises"....or does the RAF and British Army still embrace those concepts too?
At least the US Army finally went to free flow training....where events are played out as they happen....and one side loses....and it can be either side....and not done by script.
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There is another side to the secondary duties debate. Although I'm a shift worker I can't pretend I'm out of the country a lot or even that I work very long hours, but I didn't join up to manage the station ladies underwater basket weaving society or to bray and harrumph about mess flowerbeds in various commitee meetings.
I volunteer for dets whenever I can because I joined up for a bit of adventure. I would cheerfully work another hour or two on every shift if it meant I never had to wade through all the secondary drivel.
This attitude won't get me promoted but I'd rather be an eternal Flight Lewy who was good at his job than a Squabbling Bleeder who'd greased his way up.
Rant over.
I volunteer for dets whenever I can because I joined up for a bit of adventure. I would cheerfully work another hour or two on every shift if it meant I never had to wade through all the secondary drivel.
This attitude won't get me promoted but I'd rather be an eternal Flight Lewy who was good at his job than a Squabbling Bleeder who'd greased his way up.
Rant over.
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Many moons ago I wangled a job overseas where I found the workload was ridiculous. What made it worse was that my counterparts elsewhere were over-manned and under-worked. One got an MBE for charity work during his tour and when another det was reduced in size the biggest complaint was that there would be no-one to teach soccer in the local school! Needless to say they were promoted.
The most important thing is to be your own person and do what makes you happy. If the fallout of that is that you don't get promoted, well so be it. If you want a relatively secure job until you are 55 then play the game. The choice is yours. If you don't like it then leave and start a new life. You'll find the ones that have the courage to leave are the ones that will succeed.
The most important thing is to be your own person and do what makes you happy. If the fallout of that is that you don't get promoted, well so be it. If you want a relatively secure job until you are 55 then play the game. The choice is yours. If you don't like it then leave and start a new life. You'll find the ones that have the courage to leave are the ones that will succeed.
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Being too busy doing the day job to allow you to do any secondary duties is, apparently, also, OK. But your ROs must say this in your F6000/OJAR - something along the lines of "Bloggs is in a high pressure post which involves significant time away from base on ops/staff visits/liaision etc and consequently has had little opportunity to take on a meaningful secondary duty." I've been in jobs where I was constantly away and my ROs put this in and it seems to have done the trick.
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I knew two sooty Cpl's in Germany. Approx same age and approx same seniority. When it came down to primary duties they were both identical in every respect - superb sooties. One was married to a serving member with no children (loads of money!!). One was married to a mother with two daughters aged 4 and 6. One did loads of high profile secondary duties - normally with his RAF wife doing simular secondary duties. One devoted his limited time (he was on a Sqn so spent quite a bit of time away) devoted to his two daughters.
One was given a spec rec - because of his sec duties, one was given a high rec - cause he had no sec duties. Guess who got promoted.
Would anybody like to try and tell me that this is right????
One was given a spec rec - because of his sec duties, one was given a high rec - cause he had no sec duties. Guess who got promoted.
Would anybody like to try and tell me that this is right????
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Many moons ago I sat on a Cpl to Sgt promotion board for A Tech A and A Tech P as well as Super techs with both annotations.
I remember vividly one particular guy who spent his spare time flying; started off with gliding and had moved to fixed wing when he could afford it. My opinion was "Promote him". The 2 blunties wanted to know why. Answer - "This is the Royal AIR Force, not ground force".
He got his promotion.
I remember vividly one particular guy who spent his spare time flying; started off with gliding and had moved to fixed wing when he could afford it. My opinion was "Promote him". The 2 blunties wanted to know why. Answer - "This is the Royal AIR Force, not ground force".
He got his promotion.
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As a 1st and 2nd RO, I found that the F6000 gave far too much weight to secondary duties compared with the OJAR system. The F7500 had the box 11 which asked for details on extra curricular activities and this no longer exists on the OJAR - the F6000 system should also be replaced.
I encountered a lot of resentment towards the chain of command from the SNCOs at my last unit, because there was a bias towards secondary duties. The only way to get promoted was to get a spec rec, the only way to get a spec rec was to undertake numerous secondary duties, the SNCOs on det had limited scope to get these and felt (correctly) that they were unfairly penalised.
One further thought is that the cuts in numbers will mean that it will be harder to maintain secondary duties, particularly with the OOA focus (although that is unlikely to survive the Iraq debacle when it finally goes t!ts up) and the culture of extensive secondary duties may fall by the wayside. These duties are of benefit to the unit and individual but overemphasising them causes resentment and bad feeling that is perhaps disproportionate to the benefits gained.
I encountered a lot of resentment towards the chain of command from the SNCOs at my last unit, because there was a bias towards secondary duties. The only way to get promoted was to get a spec rec, the only way to get a spec rec was to undertake numerous secondary duties, the SNCOs on det had limited scope to get these and felt (correctly) that they were unfairly penalised.
One further thought is that the cuts in numbers will mean that it will be harder to maintain secondary duties, particularly with the OOA focus (although that is unlikely to survive the Iraq debacle when it finally goes t!ts up) and the culture of extensive secondary duties may fall by the wayside. These duties are of benefit to the unit and individual but overemphasising them causes resentment and bad feeling that is perhaps disproportionate to the benefits gained.
In case you have not figured it out yet...the military is full of politicians...war fighters will always be second class citizens to the politicians.
That gets back to my concept of having two militaries...one all spit and polish...pretty uniforms for parades...everything all clean and neat...and the real bunch...never parade...muddy boots...immaculate well used weapons...no bovine fecal matter lifestyle...who fight and win wars.
That gets back to my concept of having two militaries...one all spit and polish...pretty uniforms for parades...everything all clean and neat...and the real bunch...never parade...muddy boots...immaculate well used weapons...no bovine fecal matter lifestyle...who fight and win wars.
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I'm always a bit suspicious of people who do charity/voluntary work and feel the need to let others know about it. Is setting up a direct debit to Oxfam any less worthy than sitting in a bath full of baked beans? The former may benefit the charity more than the latter, but it's the latter that will probably get a mention on an ACR.
I've never had a substantial 'external' secondary duty, during my entire 20 years in the Service and my promotion has progressed at what might be considered a good pace. I think I do my job well, but I consider my down time my own. No one on their death bed ever said, "I just wish I hadn't missed that promotion".
Edited to add:.....with the possible exception of Lady Jane Grey
I've never had a substantial 'external' secondary duty, during my entire 20 years in the Service and my promotion has progressed at what might be considered a good pace. I think I do my job well, but I consider my down time my own. No one on their death bed ever said, "I just wish I hadn't missed that promotion".
Edited to add:.....with the possible exception of Lady Jane Grey
Last edited by Scud-U-Like; 19th Sep 2005 at 15:08.
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Ive had the honour (hmmm) to sit on the selection board for some Navy chaps (and chappess's) and can honestly say that secondary duties didn't get a look in. We wouldn't be bothered if you spent your spare time dishing out meals on wheels. What we were looking for was "potential" in the next higher rank.
You could have had a shed load of secondary duties and been president of the local freemasons BUT if we thought you would have been crap in the next higher rate you wouldnt have got a look in.
You could have had a shed load of secondary duties and been president of the local freemasons BUT if we thought you would have been crap in the next higher rate you wouldnt have got a look in.
