Air cadet instructors
Join Date: May 2000
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It may have been generated by money but it is now about people. People who work 60 hours a week, every week.
How do we ask them to work 62 hours next week because we are hosting an ATC summer camp?
How do we ask them to work 62 hours next week because we are hosting an ATC summer camp?
Red On, Green On
Join Date: May 2004
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After all, 41,800 makes us smaller than Marks and Spencers and they don't have a uniformed youth organization (or do they?).
All the major retailers would be knackered if the <18s all walked out!
TAC Int Bloke
Join Date: Nov 2002
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I don't know the current stats but a few years ago the CIOs used to say that 40% of all airmen and 60% of all Officers were ex cadets - add that to the increase in 'air mindedness' and good will generated amongst those cadets that chose not to make the armed forces a career and the positive effect on the 'yuff' make them a bit of a bargain IMO. Worth an odd hour here or there?
Join Date: Apr 2000
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If the ATC were disbanded just think how many more bored, disillusioned teenagers there would be out there just dying to make your life hell. When you get a grumpy, spotty herbert in at 13 and kick them out a smart, self-confident individual 5 yrs later it makes it all worthwhile. If they join the RAF, so much the better; they'll have a head start.
An amount of VR(T) officers do give others a very bad press; I've been embarassed to wear the same uniform on occaision. IMHO, respect is due from VR(T) to regulars of all ranks because they are professionals (most of the time!). Just as importantly, respect is due from the regulars to VR(T) because they're volunteers. Would you do a full day's work, go home, pull on a blue suit & go out to sort out 30+ of someone elses kids?
I too was a VR(T) officer, eventually a Flt Lt squadron commander before I "retired" because bringing up two kids of my own and working shifts left no time for the squadron. I'm a wee bit (nicely)surprised at how much support is shown here by regulars. I'm an ATCO on a military field, tower + radar, PPL, IMC + multi-engine and have still been ridiculed as "plastic" by regular admin-secs! Grr! Yes, more support from regulars would REALLY be appreciated, but so would more from ACO staff officers. Giving a Fg Off a sqn with NO other uniformed staff when he lived 200 miles away and was only in the vicinity of the sqn Mon-Fri wasn't friendly!
Would I do it again? Not sure. PC'ness has taken a huge chunk out of the fun and added far to0 much paperwork. Ask me again when my son hits 13.
Would I want my kids to join? Damn right I would!
Did I mean ATC or RAF? Yes!
An amount of VR(T) officers do give others a very bad press; I've been embarassed to wear the same uniform on occaision. IMHO, respect is due from VR(T) to regulars of all ranks because they are professionals (most of the time!). Just as importantly, respect is due from the regulars to VR(T) because they're volunteers. Would you do a full day's work, go home, pull on a blue suit & go out to sort out 30+ of someone elses kids?
I too was a VR(T) officer, eventually a Flt Lt squadron commander before I "retired" because bringing up two kids of my own and working shifts left no time for the squadron. I'm a wee bit (nicely)surprised at how much support is shown here by regulars. I'm an ATCO on a military field, tower + radar, PPL, IMC + multi-engine and have still been ridiculed as "plastic" by regular admin-secs! Grr! Yes, more support from regulars would REALLY be appreciated, but so would more from ACO staff officers. Giving a Fg Off a sqn with NO other uniformed staff when he lived 200 miles away and was only in the vicinity of the sqn Mon-Fri wasn't friendly!
Would I do it again? Not sure. PC'ness has taken a huge chunk out of the fun and added far to0 much paperwork. Ask me again when my son hits 13.
Would I want my kids to join? Damn right I would!
Did I mean ATC or RAF? Yes!
Join Date: Apr 2002
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Max Contingency - I see your point and know where you're coming from (I think!). Not sure we'll ever agree, as some of the benefits of the Corps are not directly visible to the workers of the RAF. Some are, however, such as proven (but I don't have figures immediately available) pass rate during basic training, a lower fallout rate during trade training and improved retention rate amongst those with a cadet force background cf DE. This is attributed to the fact that someone with a cadet background generally has a better 'big picture' of the RAF due to attendance at a few camps, has had the chance to experience flying (which was not always the case) and has made a more informed career choice - life in a blue suit is not quite such a culture shock.
The RAF Recruiters tell me that it does their case no harm to have cadets in RAF uniform in most communities around the UK, making up for the attrition of RAF stations - it keeps the RAF in the public view. As I said in an earlier posting, the 34,000 or so cadets (of which maybe 20% are 'churned' each year) also contribute to a presence in the community of people who have a basic appreciation of the RAF and what it does - they also have basic military skills and are less likely to flap when discussing things such as private weapons ownership, etc. They also have an 'air mindedness' and frequently some exposure to adventure training - they are more likely to get up and do something, rather than slump in front of the TV.
As I said, Max - not a dig at your comments and I recognise your valid views. I'm a professional engineer who has spent a long time managing a workforce - I am used to knowing when we can squeeze a bit more out and when the eyes say 'Full'!!
The RAF Recruiters tell me that it does their case no harm to have cadets in RAF uniform in most communities around the UK, making up for the attrition of RAF stations - it keeps the RAF in the public view. As I said in an earlier posting, the 34,000 or so cadets (of which maybe 20% are 'churned' each year) also contribute to a presence in the community of people who have a basic appreciation of the RAF and what it does - they also have basic military skills and are less likely to flap when discussing things such as private weapons ownership, etc. They also have an 'air mindedness' and frequently some exposure to adventure training - they are more likely to get up and do something, rather than slump in front of the TV.
As I said, Max - not a dig at your comments and I recognise your valid views. I'm a professional engineer who has spent a long time managing a workforce - I am used to knowing when we can squeeze a bit more out and when the eyes say 'Full'!!
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I know it can be irritating for regular RAF bods to see VR(T) uniformed staff making mistakes in the messes but they do these things because no one has shown them what the 'right' thing is.
A week at Cranditz is for most the only formal exposure they get to the parent service and there is a limit to what is taught in that time. The next exposure is on summer camp where the mistakes arise.
I would also suggest that because of their greater exposure to the wider world, VR(T) officers can sometimes highlight how daft some of the things the regular forces do are. A bit of slack would go a long way.
A week at Cranditz is for most the only formal exposure they get to the parent service and there is a limit to what is taught in that time. The next exposure is on summer camp where the mistakes arise.
I would also suggest that because of their greater exposure to the wider world, VR(T) officers can sometimes highlight how daft some of the things the regular forces do are. A bit of slack would go a long way.
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Max Contingency
Whilst I agree that there are enough candidates of sufficient quality out there, the ATC helps to attract, encourage and hone those candidates to make their entry into the RAF more likely and smoother.
As an ex- ATC cadet myself, I found that the information and experience gained in the Corps helped me avery great deal during the OASC selection process and IOT at Cranwell.
It is surely a relatively cheap recruitiment and training process that can be paid for by one years Red Arrows travelling expenses (and in my view is much more effective).
As an ex- ATC cadet myself, I found that the information and experience gained in the Corps helped me avery great deal during the OASC selection process and IOT at Cranwell.
It is surely a relatively cheap recruitiment and training process that can be paid for by one years Red Arrows travelling expenses (and in my view is much more effective).
Thread Starter
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Join Date: Apr 2005
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Some 20 Years ago,at Brussels Airport,I had the privilige of meeting someone who had been an ATC Cadet with me in the early 1960's. He had minimal "academic" qualifications; but by sheer perseverence had obtained a flying licence.
PS If anyone is interested we had both been on 1107 (Leyton) Sqn ATC.
PPS 1107 Sqn RAF was a Marine Craft Unit.
Perhaps this is something we should resurrect as something that could provde a useful ASR backup as well as a Military involvement in the local area.
PS If anyone is interested we had both been on 1107 (Leyton) Sqn ATC.
PPS 1107 Sqn RAF was a Marine Craft Unit.
Perhaps this is something we should resurrect as something that could provde a useful ASR backup as well as a Military involvement in the local area.
