Pay As You Dine has emptied the Dining Room(Of diners)
Short Blunt Shock
Join Date: Jul 2003
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Good point - will rates now be revised to reflect the fact that in some Service messes you now have to PAY with your OWN MONEY to eat? Somehow I doubt it - on base = no rates. If the 'base' you are staying 'on' just happens to be PAYD, where does this leave you?
Whatever happened to duty meals?
16B
Whatever happened to duty meals?
16B
Join Date: Oct 2004
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Paul101, Above Datums.
In that case I can only offer an apology.
Paul, I speak as somebody who has indeed seen young airmen who are irresponsible with their finances, but never to the extent where they are irresponsible enough to be financially unable to feed themselves throughout the month.
Without meaning to cause offence, I may well be blinkered in the fact that the airmen I work around and with are all engineers with a few years experience of life, and who are paid relatively well.
I have not worked anywhere with, or been in charge of a large percentage of younger airmen on a lower wage who may be getting themselves into the situation you describe.
However I stand by the fact that I see your comments as being rather derogatory towards the VAST majority of Airmen/Junior Officers who have no problems financially, but wish not to be paying for food that they do not want to eat, yet are being tarred with the brush that if they do not pay mess charges they will starve because they are not able to control their money adequately.
I feel that your argument favours the few rather than the majority.
Above Datums,
If that is the case with regard to SRO's then I agree entirely with you that we should be ashamed with ourselves. However, I still feel that it is a minority letting us down rather than the vast majority of sensible, decent servicepeople.
In that case I can only offer an apology.
Paul, I speak as somebody who has indeed seen young airmen who are irresponsible with their finances, but never to the extent where they are irresponsible enough to be financially unable to feed themselves throughout the month.
Without meaning to cause offence, I may well be blinkered in the fact that the airmen I work around and with are all engineers with a few years experience of life, and who are paid relatively well.
I have not worked anywhere with, or been in charge of a large percentage of younger airmen on a lower wage who may be getting themselves into the situation you describe.
However I stand by the fact that I see your comments as being rather derogatory towards the VAST majority of Airmen/Junior Officers who have no problems financially, but wish not to be paying for food that they do not want to eat, yet are being tarred with the brush that if they do not pay mess charges they will starve because they are not able to control their money adequately.
I feel that your argument favours the few rather than the majority.
Above Datums,
If that is the case with regard to SRO's then I agree entirely with you that we should be ashamed with ourselves. However, I still feel that it is a minority letting us down rather than the vast majority of sensible, decent servicepeople.
Join Date: Jun 2001
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I cannot believe some people are still using the paternalistic nonsense about junior personnel not being able to feed themselves, as an argument against PAYD. Perhaps we should re-introduce compulsory underwear inspections, to ensure they've wiped their @rses properly too.
I can think of better ways of encouraging fiscal responsibility than by deducting £150 per month from the salary of an airman or woman, who neither wants nor needs three square meals a day.
I can think of better ways of encouraging fiscal responsibility than by deducting £150 per month from the salary of an airman or woman, who neither wants nor needs three square meals a day.
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Fine. Well introduce this hair-brained scheme in the Junior ranks mess, the only "public" mess we have. It would far better suit the Junior Ranks mess anyway.
Just dont enforce this on either the SNCO Messes or the Officers messes or its going to be boycotted. I particularly find it concerning that this scheme is likely to be forced upon a non-public asset such as the officers mess, without a traditional mess vote going on. Bet people wouldnt be best pleased to hear this is not only going to cover food, as the name suggests, but also will reign complete control over the bar as well.
Just dont enforce this on either the SNCO Messes or the Officers messes or its going to be boycotted. I particularly find it concerning that this scheme is likely to be forced upon a non-public asset such as the officers mess, without a traditional mess vote going on. Bet people wouldnt be best pleased to hear this is not only going to cover food, as the name suggests, but also will reign complete control over the bar as well.
Article in this months Defence Director (in a supplement entitled "Defence Commodities").
Quote...
Its popularity stems from the fact that:
"It is a far more holistic, integrated solution for the delivery of catering, retail and leisure in all of the Services peace teme environments". Followed by five pages of management speak on PAYD, NAAFI and Defence Catering Group.
Given the contributors to this rag, and the "all is sweetness and light" propaganda it often contains, I'd say privatisation isn't far off.
Quote...
Its popularity stems from the fact that:
"It is a far more holistic, integrated solution for the delivery of catering, retail and leisure in all of the Services peace teme environments". Followed by five pages of management speak on PAYD, NAAFI and Defence Catering Group.
Given the contributors to this rag, and the "all is sweetness and light" propaganda it often contains, I'd say privatisation isn't far off.
Join Date: Apr 2005
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PAYD
I am reading a lot from fans of PAYD about 5h1t food in the messes prior to the contractors taking over. All joking apart gents you are obviously not, nor ever have been part of the catering/bar organisation. Over the years I have worked, part time, in various messes, Officers and Sgts in particular and I can assure you the Chefs try damned hard to give the customers a high standard of food, on no more than (approx) £2.50 a day. Contractors are interested in one thing, profit, to that end why should they bother to try and serve up anything complicated? As I have stated in this thread, check out Halton's messes which survive on trainee's as the permanent staff won't use the dining room. People will vote with their feet, so watch this space as, in the future, the contractor dosen't find it cost effective to run three dining rooms and kitchens, therefore he centralises it and we all end up in a massive "Happy Eater". No privacy for the Seniors and Occifers and worst of all nowhere for the troops to get away from us. And no, I am not a caterer.
Join Date: Oct 2004
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As for contracters only after profit... well that is true, but I will think you will find that there were contractors in many messes BEFORE PAYD was introduced.
I have been out of the RN for several years now, leaving before PAYD was introduced, but there was extensive questionnaires regarding its implementation during myu time in the mob, if i recollect it started round about 1998....
And unfortunately, before PAYD, people were unhappy with the standard of food being dished up and were voting with their feet... one of the reasons it was implemented.
I think you will find that as a bunch of human beings, we are never happy with our lot, and there is no perfect solution.
I have been out of the RN for several years now, leaving before PAYD was introduced, but there was extensive questionnaires regarding its implementation during myu time in the mob, if i recollect it started round about 1998....
And unfortunately, before PAYD, people were unhappy with the standard of food being dished up and were voting with their feet... one of the reasons it was implemented.
I think you will find that as a bunch of human beings, we are never happy with our lot, and there is no perfect solution.
If youre hungry you go to the mess and buy some food. If youre not hungry you don't....Perfect.
Join Date: Aug 2005
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Messes have always been operated so that mess staff are not inconvenienced. Only fully operational messes eg the old kipper fleet 24 hour patrol stations ever catered for the mess user outside VERY limited hours.
Plus ca change...
Plus ca change...
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If you were a sado who eat three squares a day on the old system, and now do the the same on the new, you will pay substantially more money unless you eat utter core crap..
This was never a trial, only a trial period for the contractor to work out his bid. Once the contractor has completely commited, prices will start being hiked up throughout the mess. This is due to them having a complete monopoly on ALL services within the air station/crab base/pongo mess hall
This was never a trial, only a trial period for the contractor to work out his bid. Once the contractor has completely commited, prices will start being hiked up throughout the mess. This is due to them having a complete monopoly on ALL services within the air station/crab base/pongo mess hall
