The Good Old Days!!!
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The Good Old Days!!!
I was wondering around the Museum at Hendon the other day, amazed at the amount of stuff that was in service when I first joined up that has now made it’s way into the Museum. Seeing it all in one place got me thinking, where the good old days really as good as we make them out to be? Remember the days before high leg boots when we had to cut the top of our DMS boots to stop them ripping our ankles to shreds, then having to put on putties. We all go on about how good the old SLR rifle was, but remember just how heavy it was with a full mag and the bruise it would leave on your shoulder from the kick back. The days of power sets that never started and when they did they always tripped off-line. Endless days on Tacivals sat wearing one of those old respirators (Mk4?) with the really small eye-pieces and no drinking straw. The old tin hats that really hurt the top of your head, unless you had a woolly hat on as well. The 1 ½ mile run, ten times harder than today’s bleep test. It just makes you think, with all the nostalgia removed, where the good old days really that good?
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Yeah - terrible days, RAFG , Deci, Kai Tak and Sek Kong, IAD and Hawaii.
More than 2 decent bases in the UK and St Mawgan!
Sure, the S6 didnt have a drinking straw, but you didnt need one in Hong Kong , or Goose Bay and Germany with its LOA , DF's cheap cars and everything else made up for it.
I would hate to be an airman now , knowing that MPN or AKT was about as overseas as you would get - and you have a snowballs chance in getting to AKT.
Oh how silly of me , I forgot the club 18-30 holiday in BSR and Afghanistan - let the good times roll !
More than 2 decent bases in the UK and St Mawgan!
Sure, the S6 didnt have a drinking straw, but you didnt need one in Hong Kong , or Goose Bay and Germany with its LOA , DF's cheap cars and everything else made up for it.
I would hate to be an airman now , knowing that MPN or AKT was about as overseas as you would get - and you have a snowballs chance in getting to AKT.
Oh how silly of me , I forgot the club 18-30 holiday in BSR and Afghanistan - let the good times roll !
There's only <3oz/75 grams difference between an L1A1 and an L85A2 when they have a full mag on. Ever tried carrying an L85 any distance without a sling? Or fire it from the left shoulder?Only 5.56mm rifle I know that needs ballast in the foregrip to try to balance the bl**dy thing. The Steyr I was issued in Oman in 1983 was - and probably still is - streets ahead of the Enfield in everything except deliberate target accuracy.
Don't miss the DMS/puttees combination at all; the first high-boots to replace them were almost as bad, and had to be laced missing-out row 5 or 6 to stop inflicting damage on the instep.
There are airmen posts on Loan Service around the place, if you know where to look/ how to ask.
Don't miss the DMS/puttees combination at all; the first high-boots to replace them were almost as bad, and had to be laced missing-out row 5 or 6 to stop inflicting damage on the instep.
There are airmen posts on Loan Service around the place, if you know where to look/ how to ask.
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Puttees
We had a completely looney CO that insisted that we wear puttees over flying booots, never mind DMS!
He also insisted that Nomex Babygrows were not to be worn away from the hangars so nipping to and from mess etc, babygro off, standard rig on (do you remember KF shirts?) and then back again 10 minutes later, apparently didnn't want to encourage elitism, this while all the time, cooks were wandering round in whites (how unhygeinic is that?) Tank'ies walking around in tanksuits and Vehicle mechanics walking around in greasy overeall's
AAhhh happy days! I do miss them so (not)
Anyone else have looney tunes CO's - no names please!!
He also insisted that Nomex Babygrows were not to be worn away from the hangars so nipping to and from mess etc, babygro off, standard rig on (do you remember KF shirts?) and then back again 10 minutes later, apparently didnn't want to encourage elitism, this while all the time, cooks were wandering round in whites (how unhygeinic is that?) Tank'ies walking around in tanksuits and Vehicle mechanics walking around in greasy overeall's
AAhhh happy days! I do miss them so (not)
Anyone else have looney tunes CO's - no names please!!
Thud_and_Blunder
I used the Steyer in Oman and it did was not as good as the 7.62 SLR at all. Short range, inaccurate and no stopping power.
One round from an SLR would knock over a camel easily but you would need at least half a mag with the Steyer, even with the long barrel! The Omanis liked it because it was lighter and easier to carry.
Give me range and stopping power any day.
CC
I used the Steyer in Oman and it did was not as good as the 7.62 SLR at all. Short range, inaccurate and no stopping power.
One round from an SLR would knock over a camel easily but you would need at least half a mag with the Steyer, even with the long barrel! The Omanis liked it because it was lighter and easier to carry.
Give me range and stopping power any day.
CC
Compass Call,
Quite agree - was on the March and Shoot team that did the Jebel Akhdar climb/ falling plate competition while SOAF were still carrying the FN. Our team was 2 blokes down for the shoot, but because the 7.62 knocked over anything it hit we still beat most of the army teams using the 5.56.
However, if you compare the Steyr to the L85, it's a better battlefield weapon all round IMHO. My latest SAF journal shows pics of the Omani team doing what Mike Jenvey says - beating all the other Service Rifle teams.
Oh, and those Omani suede DMS were like carpet slippers for comfort when compared to the Brit boots...
That looney CO of yours CarPete - was that around the time the Lynx ended up on the hangar roof at Hildesheim with the crew suffering horrific burn injuries?
Quite agree - was on the March and Shoot team that did the Jebel Akhdar climb/ falling plate competition while SOAF were still carrying the FN. Our team was 2 blokes down for the shoot, but because the 7.62 knocked over anything it hit we still beat most of the army teams using the 5.56.
However, if you compare the Steyr to the L85, it's a better battlefield weapon all round IMHO. My latest SAF journal shows pics of the Omani team doing what Mike Jenvey says - beating all the other Service Rifle teams.
Oh, and those Omani suede DMS were like carpet slippers for comfort when compared to the Brit boots...
That looney CO of yours CarPete - was that around the time the Lynx ended up on the hangar roof at Hildesheim with the crew suffering horrific burn injuries?
Hard to beat the M-1 Garand for a shooting iron....the M-14 was a decent one....but my favorite has to be the Barrett in .50 Caliber. One can reach way out and touch someone. Talk about penetration....oh my word?
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I always liked the .303" Lee enfield with brass butt-plate. But that was only as a space cadet so I didn't have to carry it too far!
I liked the SLR, never tried the SA80.
I liked the SLR, never tried the SA80.
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Sat here listening to Coldplay X&Y wondering about the days when we used to feed everyone....duty supper and breakfast, in fact anyone on a station duty got fed.......free of charge
A fleet of vehicles from LSS at BZN used to set of for the baldricks mess at 3am to eat bacon and beans.....Those were the days
all spelling mistakes are 'df" alcohol induced
A fleet of vehicles from LSS at BZN used to set of for the baldricks mess at 3am to eat bacon and beans.....Those were the days
all spelling mistakes are 'df" alcohol induced
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The Steyr / Austeyr F-88 has the wonderful 1.5X lense atop the weapon. Great until it rains, then you're onto the open 'battle' sights. Ecch! Hopeless.
Things that break on the Steyr like the cocking handle (plastic) didn't break on the L1A1. The L1A1 could be used half stripped, and was simpler to strip. L1A1 had fewer parts lying in a neat L-R manner on the clean dry hoochie in front of you
than the F-88. The whole 'inspect weapons' thing was simpler and safer with the L1A1, and the L1A1 safety catch was harder to accidently knock off than with the F-88. The L1A1 trigger was surrounded by a trigger guard, unlike the F-88 ... much safer.
Aussie drill with arms very pucker with L1A1 ... rather silly with F-88s slung over the shoulder like handbags (not that drill really counts
)
But ..... as I never deployed with the F-88, or used it much on longer exercises, I don't think I can rubbish it. Most of the blokes seem to like the F-88 but naturally most of the newer blokes have never even seen an L1A1. And as previous posters have mentioned the markmanship improved dramatically, even I shot better, (miracle).
Now as for MAG58 vs M-60 .......
Things that break on the Steyr like the cocking handle (plastic) didn't break on the L1A1. The L1A1 could be used half stripped, and was simpler to strip. L1A1 had fewer parts lying in a neat L-R manner on the clean dry hoochie in front of you
than the F-88. The whole 'inspect weapons' thing was simpler and safer with the L1A1, and the L1A1 safety catch was harder to accidently knock off than with the F-88. The L1A1 trigger was surrounded by a trigger guard, unlike the F-88 ... much safer.Aussie drill with arms very pucker with L1A1 ... rather silly with F-88s slung over the shoulder like handbags (not that drill really counts
)But ..... as I never deployed with the F-88, or used it much on longer exercises, I don't think I can rubbish it. Most of the blokes seem to like the F-88 but naturally most of the newer blokes have never even seen an L1A1. And as previous posters have mentioned the markmanship improved dramatically, even I shot better, (miracle).
Now as for MAG58 vs M-60 .......
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We all go on about how good the old SLR rifle was, but remember just how heavy it was with a full mag and the bruise it would leave on your shoulder from the kick back.
If you thought an SLR was heavy, try carrying a GPMG with ammunition for a couple of weeks - puts hairs on your chest, but keeps the natives' heads down!
Weapon of choice does have to be the m203 grenade launcher mounted on an M16.
But there was nothing like the good old blunderbuss for scaring off the fuzzie-wuzzies with their sharpened guava halves. Fill it up with old nails and some black powder and fire it in their general direction - soon sent the bug.gers packing.....
Then came rather a revolutionary gun, sorry, 'weapon' in which the bullets, sorry, 'rounds' no longer had to be rammed down the barrel from the top, but could be shoved in at the other end - no more need for the flint and powder either, these new fangled things came with built-in bang! So it was good-byee to our faithful old 3-band smooth bore Enfield muskets and hello to the Martini-Henry breech-loader. And with a bit of cold steel attached to the end of the muzzle it was a dandy thing with which to keep Johnny Foreigner at bay - they didn't like that up 'em, they didn't!
Then came rather a revolutionary gun, sorry, 'weapon' in which the bullets, sorry, 'rounds' no longer had to be rammed down the barrel from the top, but could be shoved in at the other end - no more need for the flint and powder either, these new fangled things came with built-in bang! So it was good-byee to our faithful old 3-band smooth bore Enfield muskets and hello to the Martini-Henry breech-loader. And with a bit of cold steel attached to the end of the muzzle it was a dandy thing with which to keep Johnny Foreigner at bay - they didn't like that up 'em, they didn't!
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The best thing about the SLR was that it made a great cricket bat or heavy hammer..........
Bring back the Bren....er I mean 'Light Machine Gun'
Regiment getting upset at SAC Maple for saying 'no, it's a Bren' and pointing to 'Bren' crossed out on side of weapon, 1945 date stamp. Worth ten press-ups of anyone's money
Ahhh, MDF!
Bring back the Bren....er I mean 'Light Machine Gun'
Regiment getting upset at SAC Maple for saying 'no, it's a Bren' and pointing to 'Bren' crossed out on side of weapon, 1945 date stamp. Worth ten press-ups of anyone's money
Ahhh, MDF!
Last edited by Maple 01; 28th Jun 2005 at 13:16.
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If you thought an SLR was heavy, try carrying a GPMG with ammunition for a couple of weeks - puts hairs on your chest, but keeps the natives' heads down!
Anyone remember the days before green shirts were issued and we had to wear light blue shirts on exercise/gate guard. I remember a unit that a Scottish CO had insisted that ties were worn too.
Aaah and the experience of doing gate guard unarmed in No1s at BZN in the mid-80s (only 3 to man the gate) - not like the searchlane spectacular there is now.
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Yep, the good old days (back in around 1973) - as a sprog cadet firing an inordinate number of rounds from a Lee Enfield Mk4 .303 on an outdoor gallery range, without ear defenders! Couldn't hear a damn thing for 2 weeks afterwards, due to the tinnitus!
Never mind the bloody weapons, what about those lovely thin sausages you used to get for breakfast. Full of nothing I suspect, but boy do I miss them on a Sunday morning fry-up.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Days when East Anglia was chocka with USAF F4s with a secondary AD role, about 350 I recall. Used to launch in 8 ships for their range slots and check in with Neatishead to do interecepts before or after their slot times. One as target, 7 as fighters. Preferred intercept was the 135 as they considered it gave the best compromise for a frontal shot then re-attack. Used to cover the screen with chinagraph taking the brief....
"Sir, run 1, Ratch 41 will be target, 2 will do a 135 flythrough, 3 will do a 180 flythrough, 4 will do a 135 reatttack, 5 will do a 135 flythrough, 6 will do a 120 reattack, 7 will do a 135 flythrough and 8 will do a 180 reattack."
"Run 2, Ratch 43 will be target, 1 will do a 180 flythrough........"
You could rack up 40 intercepts in 30 minutes, and all squeezed into CH between Great Yarmouth and the FIR boundary.
Then there were the days they did their equivalent of a survival scramble and flushed everything into the sky. A creeping mass of blips slowly obliterating the screen...
WT Lightning supersonics up and down the FIR boundary along UA37. Target subsonic at 50K+ above the civies, fighter at 1.6M on a 180 at 25K, turn under the civies on a long roll out and phone LATCC to confirm it was 5nm clear of their traffic then clear him to zoom climb and wait for the telephone call...
The days when the Russians actually came. Bear Bravos doing practise bomb runs against the Danish, Dutch and UK sites with a 16 ship gaggle of various battle flights, QRA and tankers taking photos of each other in formation and exchanging telephone numbers abd addresses where to send them. Phoning LATCC to advise them the aircraft 20 north heading south was at the same level as their traffic. Declining to coordinate as I was not controlling them and, when asked indignantly who was, replying, "I think it´s Moscow Centre"..
Happy days.
"Sir, run 1, Ratch 41 will be target, 2 will do a 135 flythrough, 3 will do a 180 flythrough, 4 will do a 135 reatttack, 5 will do a 135 flythrough, 6 will do a 120 reattack, 7 will do a 135 flythrough and 8 will do a 180 reattack."
"Run 2, Ratch 43 will be target, 1 will do a 180 flythrough........"
You could rack up 40 intercepts in 30 minutes, and all squeezed into CH between Great Yarmouth and the FIR boundary.
Then there were the days they did their equivalent of a survival scramble and flushed everything into the sky. A creeping mass of blips slowly obliterating the screen...
WT Lightning supersonics up and down the FIR boundary along UA37. Target subsonic at 50K+ above the civies, fighter at 1.6M on a 180 at 25K, turn under the civies on a long roll out and phone LATCC to confirm it was 5nm clear of their traffic then clear him to zoom climb and wait for the telephone call...
The days when the Russians actually came. Bear Bravos doing practise bomb runs against the Danish, Dutch and UK sites with a 16 ship gaggle of various battle flights, QRA and tankers taking photos of each other in formation and exchanging telephone numbers abd addresses where to send them. Phoning LATCC to advise them the aircraft 20 north heading south was at the same level as their traffic. Declining to coordinate as I was not controlling them and, when asked indignantly who was, replying, "I think it´s Moscow Centre"..
Happy days.