Learning Checklists
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Learning Checklists
Please could somebody tell me the answer.
During flying training, to what degree do checklists have to be memorized. I am preparing for a CPL course and am interested to know what standards the RAF expects.
I realise that emergencies EFATO/FIRE etc have to be memorized, but what about Cockit Preparation, Pre Start, Start, Taxi, Preflight and all the others?
If they do have to be learnt, does the check have to be remembered in full, for example, "Fuel Pressure.....Check fuel pressure between 0.5 and 8psi", or can it be abbreviated to, "Fuel Pressure.....check".
The advice I have received is that a check list can be referred to, but I am still interested to know the RAF viewpoint.
During flying training, to what degree do checklists have to be memorized. I am preparing for a CPL course and am interested to know what standards the RAF expects.
I realise that emergencies EFATO/FIRE etc have to be memorized, but what about Cockit Preparation, Pre Start, Start, Taxi, Preflight and all the others?
If they do have to be learnt, does the check have to be remembered in full, for example, "Fuel Pressure.....Check fuel pressure between 0.5 and 8psi", or can it be abbreviated to, "Fuel Pressure.....check".
The advice I have received is that a check list can be referred to, but I am still interested to know the RAF viewpoint.
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All routine check are to performed from memory (don't worry, you learn them in bits). Bold Face emergency actions should also be carried out from memory (subsequent actions may be carried out with reference to Flight Reference Cards). The response should be as written in the checklist, as some aircraft will have challenge and response checks, ie somebody reads the check and expects to hear the response from you.
Hope that helps.
kipper.
Hope that helps.
kipper.
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It not only looks more professional --- it is more professional. However, don't worry yourself unduly, as it only takes a bit of effort. In my view, the best way to learn them is to sit in a cockpit with a mate (preferably on the same course as you) and take turns doing the checks and getting corrected until you have them.
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I really would not get too wrapped up over this one. The checks you need to have off pat will be well drummed into you.
I still remember sitting for hours, with mates various, in that beat up old JP cockpit they had in the groundschool at Linton getting them perfect. Yes I am that old..
Strangely they seem to get easier to learn the further through the system you get.
I still remember sitting for hours, with mates various, in that beat up old JP cockpit they had in the groundschool at Linton getting them perfect. Yes I am that old..
Strangely they seem to get easier to learn the further through the system you get.
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CK
JP? Do some time! I can remember doing checks in the Chipmunk trainer at Swinderby!
Can still also remember the pre-taxi initial letters for the Bulldog - MIVTCM - I'd be blowed what they stand for, though.
I'm still amazed how many there are to learn in mil ac compared with civilian ones - the standard checklist for the 747-400 for all phases of flight covers one A4 page!
Ll
JP? Do some time! I can remember doing checks in the Chipmunk trainer at Swinderby!
Can still also remember the pre-taxi initial letters for the Bulldog - MIVTCM - I'd be blowed what they stand for, though.
I'm still amazed how many there are to learn in mil ac compared with civilian ones - the standard checklist for the 747-400 for all phases of flight covers one A4 page!
Ll
ImageGear
Yes, a similar idea worked for me many years ago. Put all the JP Emergency Checklist immediate actions on a cassette tape and I used to play it in the car on long-ish journeys. Did the same for the Bulldog and it certainly helped with memorising them.
Yes, a similar idea worked for me many years ago. Put all the JP Emergency Checklist immediate actions on a cassette tape and I used to play it in the car on long-ish journeys. Did the same for the Bulldog and it certainly helped with memorising them.
Gentleman Aviator
JP? Do some time! I can remember doing checks in the Chipmunk trainer at Swinderby! Can still also remember the pre-taxi initial letters for the Bulldog - MIVTCM
And of course MFFHHB for the pre-landers ...
Still remembered thanks to the nmonics (sp?) "Typhoo Tea Makes Fiery Fred's Goolies Go Purple Ha-Ha" and "My Friend Fred Has Hairy B@lls". (Well it was in Yorkshire)
... and with a bit of brain-cudgelling, I can even remember what they mean...
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It's funny, though, that I now have checks for things non-flying - before leaving for work (ID, Gum, Wallet), a long car journey (TLFGW) etc - does this make mne officially sad?
Teeteringhead - if you can remember the checks it's proof you're not old! I can, however, still remember that one circuit in a JP5 involves 108 checks.
Ll
Teeteringhead - if you can remember the checks it's proof you're not old! I can, however, still remember that one circuit in a JP5 involves 108 checks.
Ll
There are a variety of checklist reading/memorising methods used in the RAF, depending on whether the a/c is single seat, a trainer, multi-crew or whatever. Each have their particular advantages.
And yes, word perfect responses were normally expected.
Also, unlike typical US drivel such as "When you gentlemen are ready, why don't we go ahead an' run the pre-start checks", the call is simply "Pre-start checks" in the RAF!
STUPRECC!
And yes, word perfect responses were normally expected.
Also, unlike typical US drivel such as "When you gentlemen are ready, why don't we go ahead an' run the pre-start checks", the call is simply "Pre-start checks" in the RAF!
STUPRECC!
First ac Chipmunk circa 1969 Liverpool UAS:
Pre-start: Fuel on, Brakes on, Throttle Closed, Switches off...
The ground crew response always turned me on...
BREACH inserted, COWLING secure, CLEAR to start.
Post Start: BANG!! Set 1100 rpm, Oil pressure rising, Genny Warning light out, Radio on, Ignition Switches dead cut, Artificial Horizon erect, DI set and uncaged, Pitot heater, Radio call, Altimeter set, Chocks. (SOGRIADPRAC)
Pre-Takeoff: Trim 2 divisions nose down, Throttle friction nut finger tight, Mixture rich/Carbair wired hot, Fuel On and gated full starboard full port, Flaps as required up, Gyros set and uncaged, Gauges within limits, Pitot heater, Hood, Harness. (TTMFFGGPHH).
Last ac? Sea King Mk 5 circa 2002 - Can't remember any of the CX!!
Oh yes, STUPRECCC: Did that in anger on my second (and final) solo with a stick trim failure during the dive. Subsequently departed the runway through the goose necks before taxying back and handing in resignation (or was I chopped) - Stu Price the beefer. Lovely ac just couldn't land it, specially with no hyds.
Pre-start: Fuel on, Brakes on, Throttle Closed, Switches off...
The ground crew response always turned me on...
BREACH inserted, COWLING secure, CLEAR to start.
Post Start: BANG!! Set 1100 rpm, Oil pressure rising, Genny Warning light out, Radio on, Ignition Switches dead cut, Artificial Horizon erect, DI set and uncaged, Pitot heater, Radio call, Altimeter set, Chocks. (SOGRIADPRAC)
Pre-Takeoff: Trim 2 divisions nose down, Throttle friction nut finger tight, Mixture rich/Carbair wired hot, Fuel On and gated full starboard full port, Flaps as required up, Gyros set and uncaged, Gauges within limits, Pitot heater, Hood, Harness. (TTMFFGGPHH).
Last ac? Sea King Mk 5 circa 2002 - Can't remember any of the CX!!
Oh yes, STUPRECCC: Did that in anger on my second (and final) solo with a stick trim failure during the dive. Subsequently departed the runway through the goose necks before taxying back and handing in resignation (or was I chopped) - Stu Price the beefer. Lovely ac just couldn't land it, specially with no hyds.
The phrase we use on the Tutor to remember the after landing checks is....
F*^k All Pretty Students Twice Nightly.
Unfortunately the newest issue FRC's dont quite fit into this
F*^k All Pretty Students Twice Nightly.
Unfortunately the newest issue FRC's dont quite fit into this
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
I was beaten to it earlier by teeteringhead and our mutual friend Fred with his hairy ones
However, a word of warning, if I may be so bold, it's all well and good repeating what the checks are, but you must remember to DO them!
A few years ago in Der/Die/Das Farterland I was about to go off on a mission when, during the pre take offs, the handling pilot stated quite correctly (Gazelle), "Tq, Nc, T4, CWP".
This was all well and good, EXCEPT, that just before he pulled power, I mentioned to him that the torquemeter had failed and was failed at the time he gave the calls.
Lesson learnt!
'Soldiers First'!
However, a word of warning, if I may be so bold, it's all well and good repeating what the checks are, but you must remember to DO them!
A few years ago in Der/Die/Das Farterland I was about to go off on a mission when, during the pre take offs, the handling pilot stated quite correctly (Gazelle), "Tq, Nc, T4, CWP".
This was all well and good, EXCEPT, that just before he pulled power, I mentioned to him that the torquemeter had failed and was failed at the time he gave the calls.
Lesson learnt!
'Soldiers First'!
Very good point from SS; it's no good reciting the final checks in a super slick professional manner, only to land with the gear up because, you only SAID "three Greens" and didn't actually SEE three greens.
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A friend of mine managed to get all the way through his start up checks on a JP3/4, called for taxi and got clearance, waved the chocks away (ground crew bemused), pushed open the throttle and ..... nothing happened, not even an increase in noise from the Viper. He had actually omitted to push the start button. Unfortunately it was a dual trip and the debrief was not friendly.
Basically, FP, learn the lot. Everyone on your course will be doing the same so you won't be alone.
Basically, FP, learn the lot. Everyone on your course will be doing the same so you won't be alone.
"Oh yes, STUPRECCC: Did that in anger on my second (and final) solo with a stick trim failure during the dive."
A stick top trim switch failure? Very unusual that - although straight feel trim failure was reasonably common (I certainly had that once). But wouldn't 'Unlock' have been sufficient below 300/M0.7 rather than the full STUPRECCC?
A stick top trim switch failure? Very unusual that - although straight feel trim failure was reasonably common (I certainly had that once). But wouldn't 'Unlock' have been sufficient below 300/M0.7 rather than the full STUPRECCC?
BEagle
I'm on dodgy ground here, but I was trying to pull out of the high speed dive, trimming back as I did, but the trim had failed. With wrist strength insufficient to raise the nose and with Mach No. building (can't recall what it had reached, but it was big), I started to panic. Trying the trim in all directions (stu(pid)prick I know) I found to my further shock that it trimmed forward OK !! which of course compounded my problems. Unlocking thru' the STUPRECCC drill was what I recall was the right actions (of course during my time at Valley being right was not a quality with which I was generally afflicted).
Using both hands to heave the horizontal tailplane angle to within limits for unlocking, I unlocked and completed the drill, recovering to some sort of S&L and returning. That's when my problems began, though I neglected to report a problem to ATC. Without Hyd and with a strong X-wind (obligatory on the main runway by the afternoon - sea breezes?), I kept having to overshoot unable to keep the right wing down (with full left pedal, right knee kept getting in the way). Now 15 mins past my land-on time, the DI in the tower ordered me to land, which is what I did, however with legs frozen in said position. Braking with feet in this configuration (mind and feet still frozen in shock remember) the right toebrake bit much better than the (fully extended) left, and thus the right hand side goosenecks loomed. Finally, close eyes, centralise controls and jam on both feet I came to a halt in the grass. Waiting for the world to descend on me with firetrucks etc, quick as a flash nothing happened. I was below the brow of the hill for both the tower and the Hunter sqn to see me. So, taxied back thru the goose-necks, back to the line, pulled out the mud and turf from the U/C, reported the trim failure, went to the bog and threw up before pulling the plug on my FJ career. What did Stu Price say? "Oh good, the unlock drill is next sortie, we don't need to do that now!"
All happened around 31 years ago, but vivid, very vivid. Gone off thread a bit - sorry.
I'm on dodgy ground here, but I was trying to pull out of the high speed dive, trimming back as I did, but the trim had failed. With wrist strength insufficient to raise the nose and with Mach No. building (can't recall what it had reached, but it was big), I started to panic. Trying the trim in all directions (stu(pid)prick I know) I found to my further shock that it trimmed forward OK !! which of course compounded my problems. Unlocking thru' the STUPRECCC drill was what I recall was the right actions (of course during my time at Valley being right was not a quality with which I was generally afflicted).
Using both hands to heave the horizontal tailplane angle to within limits for unlocking, I unlocked and completed the drill, recovering to some sort of S&L and returning. That's when my problems began, though I neglected to report a problem to ATC. Without Hyd and with a strong X-wind (obligatory on the main runway by the afternoon - sea breezes?), I kept having to overshoot unable to keep the right wing down (with full left pedal, right knee kept getting in the way). Now 15 mins past my land-on time, the DI in the tower ordered me to land, which is what I did, however with legs frozen in said position. Braking with feet in this configuration (mind and feet still frozen in shock remember) the right toebrake bit much better than the (fully extended) left, and thus the right hand side goosenecks loomed. Finally, close eyes, centralise controls and jam on both feet I came to a halt in the grass. Waiting for the world to descend on me with firetrucks etc, quick as a flash nothing happened. I was below the brow of the hill for both the tower and the Hunter sqn to see me. So, taxied back thru the goose-necks, back to the line, pulled out the mud and turf from the U/C, reported the trim failure, went to the bog and threw up before pulling the plug on my FJ career. What did Stu Price say? "Oh good, the unlock drill is next sortie, we don't need to do that now!"
All happened around 31 years ago, but vivid, very vivid. Gone off thread a bit - sorry.
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Future pundit,
The best way that worked/works for me is to associate my hand moving across the panel whilst checking the items off. I found/find this the easiest method rather than long strings of letters because I forget who's balls I am referring to!!
Good luck
The best way that worked/works for me is to associate my hand moving across the panel whilst checking the items off. I found/find this the easiest method rather than long strings of letters because I forget who's balls I am referring to!!
Good luck