A Truce
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A Truce
This has little to do with military aviation, however this is a site where I as a military aviator may vent my spleen.
Would it not be possible, for the sake of humanity, for the great war machine to call a temporary truce in Iraq and steer some of the vast recources of men and machines toward the desperate plight of those dying in Asia at this time? After all we are in the neighbourhood almost!
I accept that it is a naiive hope, but if any of the competing religions/nations were truly virtuous then this is a cause that should unite mankind and allow them to abandon their differences - perhaps only temporarily - and dedicate efforts to saving and rebuilding lives instead of mutual destruction.
Think about it, talk about it. If you are, or know, someone who has some power or a say in things, plant the seed, you never know what may grow from it.
Put another way - this is the rumour forum - have you heard that the war on terrorism and terrorism itself has been suspended while we pull together to help sort out this natural disaster?
I'm not a God botherer, nor even religious, just a paid up member of the human race.
Would it not be possible, for the sake of humanity, for the great war machine to call a temporary truce in Iraq and steer some of the vast recources of men and machines toward the desperate plight of those dying in Asia at this time? After all we are in the neighbourhood almost!
I accept that it is a naiive hope, but if any of the competing religions/nations were truly virtuous then this is a cause that should unite mankind and allow them to abandon their differences - perhaps only temporarily - and dedicate efforts to saving and rebuilding lives instead of mutual destruction.
Think about it, talk about it. If you are, or know, someone who has some power or a say in things, plant the seed, you never know what may grow from it.
Put another way - this is the rumour forum - have you heard that the war on terrorism and terrorism itself has been suspended while we pull together to help sort out this natural disaster?
I'm not a God botherer, nor even religious, just a paid up member of the human race.
Short Blunt Shock
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"Yes, hang on a minute, Bin Laden, old chap, but would you mind telling your attack dog Zarqawi to not do anything that wouldn't constitute 'cricket' for a few days while we go and help the millions that need it in Asia?
Now don't go taking over the country while we're away, will you? Queensbury rules and all that, old boy. I'm sure you understand"
Yeah, right.
16B
Now don't go taking over the country while we're away, will you? Queensbury rules and all that, old boy. I'm sure you understand"
Yeah, right.
16B
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FOK - I admire the will and the intent with which you made the post, but the alcohol + the post will not accelerate the rectification of such a significant natural disaster by calling to, ALL powers that be, to make a difference quickly; the disaster will be attended to in the World's own time!
God help All affected - I have given already, although small, better than nowt!!
God help All affected - I have given already, although small, better than nowt!!
The other side will never put down their weapons for a truce, but we have massive resources not currently committed to ops in Iraq which could surely be used. Rows of C-130s at Lyneham, TriStars and Tens at Brize, Pumas and Merlins at Benson, potential hospital ships, you get the idea.
A massive deployment of men and material to the region (perhaps especially to our former Colonial outposts of India and Sri lanka might make up for the paltry £15 m commitment made so far.
I wonder how much we, and the USA spent on extra fuel and ordnance to bomb Iraq and Afghanistan during the last 18 months? Surely we should match that, at least? Even if it means an extra penny in the pound on income tax for the next year.
A massive deployment of men and material to the region (perhaps especially to our former Colonial outposts of India and Sri lanka might make up for the paltry £15 m commitment made so far.
I wonder how much we, and the USA spent on extra fuel and ordnance to bomb Iraq and Afghanistan during the last 18 months? Surely we should match that, at least? Even if it means an extra penny in the pound on income tax for the next year.
A truce! if only. There's a post on Rotorheads called "volunteer database" I think that has got to be the best idea. Surely somebody runs some sort of agency for pilots. I for one would fly for free I'd even put up tents or drive a truck if I thought it would help.
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Now before I make the statement that follows, let me stress that I am NOT wishing a disaster of any kind on the people of Iraq or Palestine, but this tragedy has brought into focus something I've said many times in the past: -
The only way we're ever going to see peace between the warring parties in that part of the world is if they are both confronted with a common enemy so threatening that both sides will have to pull together to survive.
Short of an invasion my Martians, (remember the scene in the otherwise forgettablle Will Smith flick 'Independence Day' with Israeli and Arab F16s lined up along side each other on the flight lne?), a natural calamity on the scale we've just seen in the Indian Ocean striking Iraq or Palestine/Israel is about all I can thnk of that might bring about a temporary lull in the hatred/hostilities.
The only way we're ever going to see peace between the warring parties in that part of the world is if they are both confronted with a common enemy so threatening that both sides will have to pull together to survive.
Short of an invasion my Martians, (remember the scene in the otherwise forgettablle Will Smith flick 'Independence Day' with Israeli and Arab F16s lined up along side each other on the flight lne?), a natural calamity on the scale we've just seen in the Indian Ocean striking Iraq or Palestine/Israel is about all I can thnk of that might bring about a temporary lull in the hatred/hostilities.
Jacko
I wondered if I was the only one thinking "why is the (UK) Government going F all" (in practical terms).
In the late 90s 1998 I think, there was a major flooding disaster in Central America. The UK response include HMS Ocean (plus helicopters?), a frigate and RFA to support/assist, and a unit of Royal Marines with landing craft and other small boats that could go up river and reach isolated places.
In 2000 the much maligned UK response to the floods in Mozambique included both RAF Pumas and RN Sea Kings (transfered to one of the AORs).
Surely there is some sort of contingency planning at the MOD? Helicopters, (small) boats, field engineering equipment, water purification plant, generators, logistics..............
Unfortunately the time it would take to convert/sail any hip in a hospital would negate the usefulness. Better to help with restoring the infrastructure and preventing epidemics....
Not only can we help, we must. If we don't, we'll only have ourselves to blame for future hostility...
I wondered if I was the only one thinking "why is the (UK) Government going F all" (in practical terms).
In the late 90s 1998 I think, there was a major flooding disaster in Central America. The UK response include HMS Ocean (plus helicopters?), a frigate and RFA to support/assist, and a unit of Royal Marines with landing craft and other small boats that could go up river and reach isolated places.
In 2000 the much maligned UK response to the floods in Mozambique included both RAF Pumas and RN Sea Kings (transfered to one of the AORs).
Surely there is some sort of contingency planning at the MOD? Helicopters, (small) boats, field engineering equipment, water purification plant, generators, logistics..............
Unfortunately the time it would take to convert/sail any hip in a hospital would negate the usefulness. Better to help with restoring the infrastructure and preventing epidemics....
Not only can we help, we must. If we don't, we'll only have ourselves to blame for future hostility...
Now I'm no 'Conchy' War Dodger...I've seen my fair share...but if PMA rang now and said....Huey, get yourself on the next C130 to Baghdad....I'd have to dig deep to find the resolve to want to go...but I'd go right now to Asia..I'm just as likely to cop it from some nasty jungle/water borne disease as I am from a mortar/bullet/bomb/terrorist attack/crash...hmmmmm?
Nice Ideas but...
Where do we get the manpower from? Everyone is stretched to max capacity as it is and the rest are either pre-deployment trg or just winding down?
Just a thought.
Just a thought.
Red On, Green On
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I expect we'll see a video released soon on Al-Jazera with BL blaming the infidel USA and UK for the earthquake and tsunami.
Heard the overseas devpt minister saying that UK was sending cash, and that the USA/Australian/Japanese/Indian consortium were sending manpower as they have resources nearby. Didn't actually say that our were so stretched ..., but you could hear him thinking of ways to avoid saying it.
Heard the overseas devpt minister saying that UK was sending cash, and that the USA/Australian/Japanese/Indian consortium were sending manpower as they have resources nearby. Didn't actually say that our were so stretched ..., but you could hear him thinking of ways to avoid saying it.
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Fg Off,
Nice thought, but the cynic in me says nowt will ever happen from those who can really make a differnce. Which just leaves us little people with our donations and the like.
Huey,
Agree with you thoughts entirely, yep Bahgdad etc etc is my job and I'll go whenever I'm told to, but I would have a much better 'warm fuzzy feeling' going to the aid of those in SE Asia.
Nice thought, but the cynic in me says nowt will ever happen from those who can really make a differnce. Which just leaves us little people with our donations and the like.
Huey,
Agree with you thoughts entirely, yep Bahgdad etc etc is my job and I'll go whenever I'm told to, but I would have a much better 'warm fuzzy feeling' going to the aid of those in SE Asia.
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Jacko - I'm not sure that £15 million form the Uk taxpayer counts as "F all" - especially as it has now been matched by the same amount of voluntary contribution from the public to charities.
Compared to £18million ($35 milliion) from the USA that is pretty good - even if old Dubya in his address from his ranch said "$35 BILLION".
Compared to £18million ($35 milliion) from the USA that is pretty good - even if old Dubya in his address from his ranch said "$35 BILLION".
Suspicion breeds confidence
Webf,
It would take too long to get there. After storing up Ocean for humanitarian aid, you are looking at minimum 3wks maybe 4 wks to get on station. The biggest priority now is get as much aid as possible flown in. The RAF may be asked to join in and I'm sure a few transport aircrew have been asked to "keep in touch" in the event they are going away for Xmas.
It would take too long to get there. After storing up Ocean for humanitarian aid, you are looking at minimum 3wks maybe 4 wks to get on station. The biggest priority now is get as much aid as possible flown in. The RAF may be asked to join in and I'm sure a few transport aircrew have been asked to "keep in touch" in the event they are going away for Xmas.
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Fg Off K,
Clearly, you are a compassionate human being and I salute you for that. However, here in Baghdad there is no chance whatsoever of our insurgent mates calling a truce. So the Defence expenditure must go on until the fight is won...or....
This is one of the biggest natural major incidents of all time and the humanitarian response needs to be measured. There are a lot of people doing a lot of good out there but they are usually Non-Governmental Organizations with copious experience of this type of thing. We, on the other hand, have only a limited background of responding to this type of tragedy and if we were to bomb-burst out there it could complicate things. There are obvious things like FP to take into consideration and a shed load of UK mates with malaria and severe gastrointestinal disturbances does no good to the situation.
That said, we could aid the situation by providing logs sp or a hospital ship off the coast, and I believe that is what our US friends are doing.
To any guys likely to go to SE Asia, I wish you a safe trip - perhaps I will see you out there?!
Clearly, you are a compassionate human being and I salute you for that. However, here in Baghdad there is no chance whatsoever of our insurgent mates calling a truce. So the Defence expenditure must go on until the fight is won...or....
This is one of the biggest natural major incidents of all time and the humanitarian response needs to be measured. There are a lot of people doing a lot of good out there but they are usually Non-Governmental Organizations with copious experience of this type of thing. We, on the other hand, have only a limited background of responding to this type of tragedy and if we were to bomb-burst out there it could complicate things. There are obvious things like FP to take into consideration and a shed load of UK mates with malaria and severe gastrointestinal disturbances does no good to the situation.
That said, we could aid the situation by providing logs sp or a hospital ship off the coast, and I believe that is what our US friends are doing.
To any guys likely to go to SE Asia, I wish you a safe trip - perhaps I will see you out there?!
Moggiee,
I didn't call it f*ck all, I called it paltry. At 50 cents each (and that's what £15 m amounts to), I do think it's far too little, especially when areas for which we have some historic/moral responsibility (Ceylon/India) and where we are still held in such high regard are so hard hit.
This is going to cost an estimated £7.2 Bn, so we need to dig deep and suffer a little pain. A penny in the pound for one year wouldn't be too much to ask, surely? (We could even provide the entire amount ourselves if we canned the carriers! Joke, WEBF, before you start.)
And I'd agree that it looks exceptionally generous beside the contribution of the richest and most powerful economy on the planet.
And I do just wonder:
How much the US spent post 9/11 on 'relief'.
How much the US spent in Florida on 'relief' after the Hurricanes.
How much the US spends on Agricultural subsidies.
How much the US spent on ordnance and extra fuel during ops in Afghanistan and Iraq over the last 18 months.
And how much we've spent on the same ops.
I didn't call it f*ck all, I called it paltry. At 50 cents each (and that's what £15 m amounts to), I do think it's far too little, especially when areas for which we have some historic/moral responsibility (Ceylon/India) and where we are still held in such high regard are so hard hit.
This is going to cost an estimated £7.2 Bn, so we need to dig deep and suffer a little pain. A penny in the pound for one year wouldn't be too much to ask, surely? (We could even provide the entire amount ourselves if we canned the carriers! Joke, WEBF, before you start.)
And I'd agree that it looks exceptionally generous beside the contribution of the richest and most powerful economy on the planet.
And I do just wonder:
How much the US spent post 9/11 on 'relief'.
How much the US spent in Florida on 'relief' after the Hurricanes.
How much the US spends on Agricultural subsidies.
How much the US spent on ordnance and extra fuel during ops in Afghanistan and Iraq over the last 18 months.
And how much we've spent on the same ops.
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Jackonicko
TB must have been reading yr. posts - HMG now reported as donating £50M/$96M
others are (according to BBCi):
World Bank $250m
UK $96m
EU $44m
US: $35m
Canada: $33m
Japan: $30m
Australia: $27m
France: $20.4m
Denmark: $15.6m
Saudi Arabia: $10m
Norway: $6.6m
Taiwan: $5.1m
Finland: $3.4m
Kuwait: $2.1m
Netherlands: $2.6m
UAE: $2m
Ireland $1.3m
Singapore: $1.2m
Source: Reuters, United Nations
Perhaps TB thought he'd shame Bush into pledging more?
TB must have been reading yr. posts - HMG now reported as donating £50M/$96M
others are (according to BBCi):
World Bank $250m
UK $96m
EU $44m
US: $35m
Canada: $33m
Japan: $30m
Australia: $27m
France: $20.4m
Denmark: $15.6m
Saudi Arabia: $10m
Norway: $6.6m
Taiwan: $5.1m
Finland: $3.4m
Kuwait: $2.1m
Netherlands: $2.6m
UAE: $2m
Ireland $1.3m
Singapore: $1.2m
Source: Reuters, United Nations
Perhaps TB thought he'd shame Bush into pledging more?