Flying pay for UK Mams.
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Guess
Posts: 112
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mr Rocket
Perhaps you should remove said rocket from your rear. Our CREW pay, not flying pay as the front enders etc get, it is an entitlement we get for the job we do (please read previous posts !). Not for flying or fixing a plane.
Do the stewards get their pay for being able to fix an in flight tech snag, or is it for feeding pax and being able to assist pax off the plane in an emergency. Which is something most MAMS guys would do on a herc to assist the loadie in an emergency.
Not a go at anyone, just the facts.
MM
Perhaps you should remove said rocket from your rear. Our CREW pay, not flying pay as the front enders etc get, it is an entitlement we get for the job we do (please read previous posts !). Not for flying or fixing a plane.
Do the stewards get their pay for being able to fix an in flight tech snag, or is it for feeding pax and being able to assist pax off the plane in an emergency. Which is something most MAMS guys would do on a herc to assist the loadie in an emergency.
Not a go at anyone, just the facts.
MM
Short Blunt Shock
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 631
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Movers are NOT part of the crew. They are PAX. The only reason they fly on the aircraft is to load / unload it at the other end, because either the destination has no cargo / pax handling facilities, or we don't want to pay for them.
And loading / unloading / re-roling is something the crew is more than capable of doing; I have done it myself a number of times. Don't get me wrong, when time is tight and you have a big load to shift, mobile teams work damn hard to get it done. But they do not contribute in any way to the actual operation of the aircraft, ergo they are not crew, ergo IMHO they shouldn't get crew pay. Yes, they contribute to the execution of the TASK, but so do lineys, scribblies, ops spt and so on. 47AD SHOULD get crew pay, because they DO operate in the air and are essential to the completion of most TacAT tasks. And I would most certainly NOT allow movers on my aircraft to direct pax in the event of an emergency evacuation, as they are not qualified to do so.
Personally, I DO have a problem with people getting pay they shouldn't get, as it takes money out of a finite, ever-shrinking pot that could be better used elsewhere. If we didn't pay movers crew pay, maybe we could afford more spares and keep more aircraft airborne. And if we didn't give them flying suits and gloves, maybe there would be some left for those that actually NEED them for their job.
Rant over, standing by for incoming......
16B
And loading / unloading / re-roling is something the crew is more than capable of doing; I have done it myself a number of times. Don't get me wrong, when time is tight and you have a big load to shift, mobile teams work damn hard to get it done. But they do not contribute in any way to the actual operation of the aircraft, ergo they are not crew, ergo IMHO they shouldn't get crew pay. Yes, they contribute to the execution of the TASK, but so do lineys, scribblies, ops spt and so on. 47AD SHOULD get crew pay, because they DO operate in the air and are essential to the completion of most TacAT tasks. And I would most certainly NOT allow movers on my aircraft to direct pax in the event of an emergency evacuation, as they are not qualified to do so.
Personally, I DO have a problem with people getting pay they shouldn't get, as it takes money out of a finite, ever-shrinking pot that could be better used elsewhere. If we didn't pay movers crew pay, maybe we could afford more spares and keep more aircraft airborne. And if we didn't give them flying suits and gloves, maybe there would be some left for those that actually NEED them for their job.
Rant over, standing by for incoming......
16B
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 339
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I stood In the Door
What have you been smoking? Being reading too much Karl Marx recently? What utter hoop
I know, I will spend years of training to become flight deck (Pilot/Nav) crew and then I will take a pay cut to share out amongst the Blunties that work down the back. GET REAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If you were fishing for a bite, then well done you got one, but I have a horrible feeling you were serious..........
DS
What have you been smoking? Being reading too much Karl Marx recently? What utter hoop
I know, I will spend years of training to become flight deck (Pilot/Nav) crew and then I will take a pay cut to share out amongst the Blunties that work down the back. GET REAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If you were fishing for a bite, then well done you got one, but I have a horrible feeling you were serious..........
DS
Guest
Posts: n/a
Movers don't have a role in the air, hence no extra pay. You chaps might be doing a sterling job in Iraq but it is not a factor to get flying pay (the clue is oin the name). Do not insult the intelligence of any of us by claiming you form part of an aircrew, you don't.
The last I heard BA, Easy Jet et al were not desparate to loose all baggage, or leave passengers baggage behind in order to fit your DFs on, so why would we need to pay you more than LSSA when you are on ops?
A role can be found for you though, I suggest we cover you in tin foil and chuck you out when the RWR goes off. The RCS should be about the same.
The last I heard BA, Easy Jet et al were not desparate to loose all baggage, or leave passengers baggage behind in order to fit your DFs on, so why would we need to pay you more than LSSA when you are on ops?
A role can be found for you though, I suggest we cover you in tin foil and chuck you out when the RWR goes off. The RCS should be about the same.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: in my combat underpants
Age: 53
Posts: 1,065
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As pointed out - Crew Pay - not Flying Pay. Heaven forbid!
Frankly - I could care less about that sort of thing. Non-MAMS and never going to be, so only here to add balance. However, those Movers are manifested as Crew, they are fed as Crew, accommodated as Crew and paid Rates as Crew. Therefore, they are Crew. They don't decide that or travel as PAX as they have a part to play in the Role of the frame. 16B - I am flattered that you care so much. You also forget that the Role of the frame extends beyond the wingtips - a lot happens before and after the aircraft moves that are related to the Role.
Frankly - I could care less about that sort of thing. Non-MAMS and never going to be, so only here to add balance. However, those Movers are manifested as Crew, they are fed as Crew, accommodated as Crew and paid Rates as Crew. Therefore, they are Crew. They don't decide that or travel as PAX as they have a part to play in the Role of the frame. 16B - I am flattered that you care so much. You also forget that the Role of the frame extends beyond the wingtips - a lot happens before and after the aircraft moves that are related to the Role.
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 339
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just a thought, but lets give this thread no more of our attention. The illiterate runt who started it is either a wind up merchant or a total @rse who wont appreciate to the subtle banter on here anyway.
Movers are not aircrew, never will be and will forever be suppliers with an over inflated sense of importance and even bigger share of incompetence.
There are those who joined as pilots and those who wanted to!
Movers are not aircrew, never will be and will forever be suppliers with an over inflated sense of importance and even bigger share of incompetence.
There are those who joined as pilots and those who wanted to!
Well said Lee Jung....most of the movers I know/have worked with are Ok, with one enormous exception....Lunghi Airport June 2000....you know who you were..and you were @rse!!!!!!!!!!!
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow.
Age: 80
Posts: 621
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am totally astounded that so many of you regular contributors have taken the bait that this prat has dangled..........hook line and sinker or what.
Anyway, I always thought the only things to be found in Grimsby were fishing boats !!
Regards to all,
E5
Anyway, I always thought the only things to be found in Grimsby were fishing boats !!
Regards to all,
E5
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Wiltshire
Age: 59
Posts: 903
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Movers are NOT part of the crew. They are PAX.
And I would most certainly NOT allow movers on my aircraft to direct pax in the event of an emergency evacuation, as they are not qualified to do so
As for the Tw@t who started this - think the @RRSE site would be more appropriate for you
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Northwest
Posts: 51
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mr Rocket,
" I'm surprised to find stackers have such an interest in matters such as flying pay "
For a supposed FJ mate you seem rather opinionated on AT matters whereas Mr C may be a stacker, perhaps on a Movs tour, he is just as entitled to an opinion as anyone else.
" At the end of the day, when the $hit hits the fan at 30 000ft, and you're sat in the back of a Tristar/Herc etc. You and the movers may not be complaining so loudly about who gets flying pay and who doesn't blah blah "
Haven't seen any Movers on this thread complaining about receiving crew pay, only you aircrew gits seem to have an issue with it.
" I'm surprised to find stackers have such an interest in matters such as flying pay "
For a supposed FJ mate you seem rather opinionated on AT matters whereas Mr C may be a stacker, perhaps on a Movs tour, he is just as entitled to an opinion as anyone else.
" At the end of the day, when the $hit hits the fan at 30 000ft, and you're sat in the back of a Tristar/Herc etc. You and the movers may not be complaining so loudly about who gets flying pay and who doesn't blah blah "
Haven't seen any Movers on this thread complaining about receiving crew pay, only you aircrew gits seem to have an issue with it.
Last edited by 3xGreens; 15th Dec 2004 at 14:30.
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 56
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Next time you do 2 years of training to get your AIRCREW brevet come and see us. Until then stop wondering why it annoys people so much when movers get flying pay. On the kipper fleet we do our own moving. Its not hard. You just get in the way.
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Northwest
Posts: 51
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dirty Sanchez,
I apologise............tw@ts deleted............gits inserted .
grousehunter,
Cannot make it any simpler than this.......Mobile Muppets get CREW pay........NOT...........Flying pay.
I apologise............tw@ts deleted............gits inserted .
grousehunter,
Cannot make it any simpler than this.......Mobile Muppets get CREW pay........NOT...........Flying pay.
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Oxfordshire
Age: 54
Posts: 470
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Grousehunter, I did three years training as an apprentice engineer, so try not to sound smug about doing two eh? If flying was hard, engineers would have to do it...
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 339
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Oh give us a break, this is turning into a pissing competition. The Royal Air Force is about projecting Air Power, and as a result if your job is not to fly (aircrew by that I mean Pilots and maybe Navs), then it is by implication, there to support those who do. Not to build petty empires.
Any questions??
DS
Any questions??
DS
Last edited by PPRuNeUser0172; 15th Dec 2004 at 17:32.
Short Blunt Shock
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 631
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well said DS. As for:
"I was on a VC10 where we had to jump down the emergency chutes. Who was at the top directing the pax to jump? The MAMS Fg Off and Sgt. "
I re-iterate:
"I would most certainly NOT allow movers on my aircraft to direct pax in the event of an emergency evacuation, as THEY ARE NOT QUALIFIED TO DO SO"
Important bit in capitals, for the hard of thinking.
Movers are baggage / freight handlers. Nothing more. So stop pretending you're anything else.
16B
"I was on a VC10 where we had to jump down the emergency chutes. Who was at the top directing the pax to jump? The MAMS Fg Off and Sgt. "
I re-iterate:
"I would most certainly NOT allow movers on my aircraft to direct pax in the event of an emergency evacuation, as THEY ARE NOT QUALIFIED TO DO SO"
Important bit in capitals, for the hard of thinking.
Movers are baggage / freight handlers. Nothing more. So stop pretending you're anything else.
16B
Muppits (Sp) never were, and never will be regarded as, Aircrew by aircrew. Sorry you just aren't good enough.
The only reason they have managed to slime their way into extra money (and they do LOVE that) is because there are Snr Officer Muppits (unlike the poor old GE's, who DO deserve the extra dosh, BUT don't have Heavy Duty braid fighting THEIR corner) and thus don't get their well-deserved FLYING PAY. (we aircrew like GE's.)
What next, a CAS Muppit! God forbid, but actually it's not such a bad idea cos they blag all the best hotel rooms for themselves before the workers (ie the aircrew who flew them in arrive at the hotel) so they certainly know how to look after themselves, and who knows, when in power they may start to look after those who should be looked after.
The only reason they have managed to slime their way into extra money (and they do LOVE that) is because there are Snr Officer Muppits (unlike the poor old GE's, who DO deserve the extra dosh, BUT don't have Heavy Duty braid fighting THEIR corner) and thus don't get their well-deserved FLYING PAY. (we aircrew like GE's.)
What next, a CAS Muppit! God forbid, but actually it's not such a bad idea cos they blag all the best hotel rooms for themselves before the workers (ie the aircrew who flew them in arrive at the hotel) so they certainly know how to look after themselves, and who knows, when in power they may start to look after those who should be looked after.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Sunny East Sussex
Age: 49
Posts: 264
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As I understand it, movers get crew pay due to their airbourne role during TALO, so crewpay starts upon TALO qualification.
As to why theirs is continuous and GE's only on flying days, well, the senior mover is an Air Marshall, and the chief GE is..., well, ... a Chief. You work it out!!!
As to why theirs is continuous and GE's only on flying days, well, the senior mover is an Air Marshall, and the chief GE is..., well, ... a Chief. You work it out!!!