Any ageing Kipper Fleet vets still in posession of a marble or two? Shackleton query!
Thread Starter
Any ageing Kipper Fleet vets still in posession of a marble or two? Shackleton query!
What was a Shackleton MR.Mk 2C?
A Mark 2 with Phase I mods (ASV 21, Blue Silk, Tactical Table)?
A Mark 2 with Phase II mods (Mk 1C sonics, Green Salad, Violet Picture, Orange Harvest, sonobuoy homer, TACAN, long exhausts)?
A Mark 2 with Phase III mods (strengthened spars, re-skinned wings, fuel jettison, revised tactical station, increased weight, etc.)?
And why was there no MR2A and no MR2B?
A Mark 2 with Phase I mods (ASV 21, Blue Silk, Tactical Table)?
A Mark 2 with Phase II mods (Mk 1C sonics, Green Salad, Violet Picture, Orange Harvest, sonobuoy homer, TACAN, long exhausts)?
A Mark 2 with Phase III mods (strengthened spars, re-skinned wings, fuel jettison, revised tactical station, increased weight, etc.)?
And why was there no MR2A and no MR2B?
My information is that the MR2C was an updated MR2 fitted with the MR3's navigation and attack system, entering service with 205 Sqn in Changi in 1962.
Shall try to find out about the MR2A/B, but don't hold your horses!
Shall try to find out about the MR2A/B, but don't hold your horses!
Marbles decreasing due CRAFT syndrome.Try Shack. Assoc. Website with query or "Shack.Preservation Trust" at Coventry. "Pilots' Notes" for Mk.2 seem to refer only to Phases e.g. Phase 3'.
Thread Starter
I'm told that: "Your middle option (below) is correct. The full title is Mark2 Phase 2 C - the C simply standing for conversion. Over 40 years of service the
terminology changed from time to time."
EG: A Mark 2 with Phase II mods (Mk 1C sonics, Green Salad, Violet Picture,
Orange Harvest, sonobuoy homer, TACAN, long exhausts)?
terminology changed from time to time."
EG: A Mark 2 with Phase II mods (Mk 1C sonics, Green Salad, Violet Picture,
Orange Harvest, sonobuoy homer, TACAN, long exhausts)?
To add to that:
AJ Jackson, Avro Aircraft Since 1908, p.418:
"[Phase 3] had MR 3 navigation and offensive equipment together with a Mk 3 exhaust system....and were known unofficially as the Shackleton MR 2C"
Chris Ashworth, Avro's Maritime Heavyweight: The Shackleton is (as I'm sure you know, JN) good on this. It also makes reference to a planned MR 2A on pp34-36.
AJ Jackson, Avro Aircraft Since 1908, p.418:
"[Phase 3] had MR 3 navigation and offensive equipment together with a Mk 3 exhaust system....and were known unofficially as the Shackleton MR 2C"
Chris Ashworth, Avro's Maritime Heavyweight: The Shackleton is (as I'm sure you know, JN) good on this. It also makes reference to a planned MR 2A on pp34-36.
Thread Starter
Yes, here's the discrepancy. Jackson uses MR2C to describe an MR2 Phase 3, whereas my source uses it to describe an MR2 Phase 2.
While the Putnam books were great in their time, standards were lower then, and I don't take anything in them as Gospel.
Interestingly, Harry Holmes avoided the question altogether in the official BAE tome on the Shack.
While the Putnam books were great in their time, standards were lower then, and I don't take anything in them as Gospel.
Interestingly, Harry Holmes avoided the question altogether in the official BAE tome on the Shack.
Jacko,
Poor 'cut and pasting' on my part (from a scan of the relevant page, e-mailed to home address, converted into word document....) I was endeavouring to focus on the 'unofficially' bit, reinforcing your point about terminology changing over time, rather than to raise a discrepancy.
Which wasn't quite what resulted...
Poor 'cut and pasting' on my part (from a scan of the relevant page, e-mailed to home address, converted into word document....) I was endeavouring to focus on the 'unofficially' bit, reinforcing your point about terminology changing over time, rather than to raise a discrepancy.
Which wasn't quite what resulted...
Teeteringhead,
Sorry, not been on for a few days, so missed out the instant reply. Fairly sure it's what everyone else has said - the Mk2 Phase III. I have some other tech stuff up in the loft (probably under about 25 years of other accumulated rubbish).
There were also one or two 'special editions' which could have been given the Mk 2c name - I believe one Mk 2 was rebuilt with a MAD boom and was given another name, and there was also the prospective diesel engine version which was under development at Luton in the early 60's. However, that could have been a Mk 3 derivative - it received the usual Government support and was chopped! I remember seeing piccies and specs at Northwood in days of HQCC, but they went up in smoke when the OM and HQ building burnt down.
One other possibility is that when the company started rebuilding the Mk 2's to AEW configuration they referred to it as the 2c - I picked a few up from Bitteswell to take to Kemble for painting, and have a vague memory that we signed for something other than 'AEW 2'.
Whatever, still the best collection of rivets ever to grace the sky.
** Pertama **
Sorry, not been on for a few days, so missed out the instant reply. Fairly sure it's what everyone else has said - the Mk2 Phase III. I have some other tech stuff up in the loft (probably under about 25 years of other accumulated rubbish).
There were also one or two 'special editions' which could have been given the Mk 2c name - I believe one Mk 2 was rebuilt with a MAD boom and was given another name, and there was also the prospective diesel engine version which was under development at Luton in the early 60's. However, that could have been a Mk 3 derivative - it received the usual Government support and was chopped! I remember seeing piccies and specs at Northwood in days of HQCC, but they went up in smoke when the OM and HQ building burnt down.
One other possibility is that when the company started rebuilding the Mk 2's to AEW configuration they referred to it as the 2c - I picked a few up from Bitteswell to take to Kemble for painting, and have a vague memory that we signed for something other than 'AEW 2'.
Whatever, still the best collection of rivets ever to grace the sky.
** Pertama **
Last edited by Shackman; 24th Nov 2004 at 18:08.
