Freedom of Information Act (FOI)
Thread Starter
Freedom of Information Act (FOI)
20041013-U-EVERYBODYSEYES-STAFF-Plopandpoo-OCTRIV-DRAFT-V1
As if we didn't have enough c*r*a*p to deal with!
As if we didn't have enough c*r*a*p to deal with!
Last edited by Specaircrew; 13th Oct 2004 at 11:28.
Thread Starter
So you're not aware that as from 1 Jan 05 any Tom, Dick or Harry has the right to see any of our data and we must produce it within 20 days! Therefore everything (files,emails etc) has to be titled or re titled:
Date(backwards)-Protective Marking-Caveat-Desriptor-Title-Signatory-Draft-Version
This applies to everthing you already have stored on your Hard Drive, not just new documents...........the delete button on my PC has worn out!!!
Date(backwards)-Protective Marking-Caveat-Desriptor-Title-Signatory-Draft-Version
This applies to everthing you already have stored on your Hard Drive, not just new documents...........the delete button on my PC has worn out!!!
It just keeps on getting better, eh Speccers?
Mind you, if that means open access to various things caveated under 'Management in Confidence', then some people might well be called to account....
Mind you, if that means open access to various things caveated under 'Management in Confidence', then some people might well be called to account....
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As someone who has been out of the forces for a number of years, I obviously cannot comment on the current situation. However, the Act does contain the following caveat:
Information is exempt information if its disclosure under this Act would, or would be likely to, prejudice-
(a) the defence of the British Islands or of any colony, or
(b) the capability, effectiveness or security of any relevant forces.
(2) In subsection (1)(b) "relevant forces" means-
(a) the armed forces of the Crown, and
(b) any forces co-operating with those forces,
or any part of any of those forces.
Which I believe could be construed as a convenient get out clause??
Information is exempt information if its disclosure under this Act would, or would be likely to, prejudice-
(a) the defence of the British Islands or of any colony, or
(b) the capability, effectiveness or security of any relevant forces.
(2) In subsection (1)(b) "relevant forces" means-
(a) the armed forces of the Crown, and
(b) any forces co-operating with those forces,
or any part of any of those forces.
Which I believe could be construed as a convenient get out clause??
Thread Starter
The only 'get out' is info that would be covered by the Data Protection Act or data that is of such a sensitive nature that it wouldn't be in the public interest to release it. Unfortunately most of my one fingered typing stuff doesn't qualify!
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Unfortunately we all have to get the organisation out of the '50s and into the '80s in order for us to prepare for the '90s and the new millenium, or we may be caught out by what the brave new world that beyond 2000 will hold.......
Realistically, society requires such legislation, and MoD has to embrace (nice buzz word...) such management issues, as do those in it from the low to those at the the highest management level. Yes, MoD must be a War Fighting orgnaisation, but in todays 'touchy-feely' world, it MUST conform to the demands of the time, and even though it may be a hassle to manage, IT MUST BE MANAGED....
If you are afraid of your inability to justify your management decisions, you might want to take a look at your management style or principles - or at least the training you received to put you there.
Realistically, society requires such legislation, and MoD has to embrace (nice buzz word...) such management issues, as do those in it from the low to those at the the highest management level. Yes, MoD must be a War Fighting orgnaisation, but in todays 'touchy-feely' world, it MUST conform to the demands of the time, and even though it may be a hassle to manage, IT MUST BE MANAGED....
If you are afraid of your inability to justify your management decisions, you might want to take a look at your management style or principles - or at least the training you received to put you there.
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Send a letter to OC TRIV asking when the team are visiting your section to convert all your file titles. When he writes back telling you to get on with it, write back saying NO.
What they going to do? Court martial you with all the attendant gutter press publicity?
In any case, by the time they find out that this task is at the bottom of your in tray, you'll have been posted/promoted/PVR'd/etc...
What they going to do? Court martial you with all the attendant gutter press publicity?
In any case, by the time they find out that this task is at the bottom of your in tray, you'll have been posted/promoted/PVR'd/etc...
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L J R,
You quoted:
"Realistically, society requires such legislation, and MoD has to embrace (nice buzz word...) such management issues, as do those in it from the low to those at the the highest management level. Yes, MoD must be a War Fighting orgnaisation, but in todays 'touchy-feely' world, it MUST conform to the demands of the time, and even though it may be a hassle to manage, IT MUST BE MANAGED...."
I'm sorry, but are we not meant to be a fighting force as you say above, so why do we have to sit by yet and let another piece of legislation which will do nothing other that shaft those presently serving who are trying to get (all) their jobs done. It really is time to bang out.
You quoted:
"Realistically, society requires such legislation, and MoD has to embrace (nice buzz word...) such management issues, as do those in it from the low to those at the the highest management level. Yes, MoD must be a War Fighting orgnaisation, but in todays 'touchy-feely' world, it MUST conform to the demands of the time, and even though it may be a hassle to manage, IT MUST BE MANAGED...."
I'm sorry, but are we not meant to be a fighting force as you say above, so why do we have to sit by yet and let another piece of legislation which will do nothing other that shaft those presently serving who are trying to get (all) their jobs done. It really is time to bang out.
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Let's face it, admin crap aside, there's a culture of secrecy pervading all three services which carries things to the ridiculous level. Most "classified" material is either available on the internet or in specialist mags given enough time, perserverance and computer time, or really doesn't matter all that much in the first place.
A former Flag Officer Submarines once told me that the only truly secret issues for the RN were missile targeting data, sub patrol box locations and the design of the unique, onboard reactors. The rest, he said wearily, was little more than bureacratic nonsense in place to make inadequate people feel important.
Whitehall will do what it does best when faced with having to put up a smokescreen against embarrassing public access to records. It will classify entire rainforests'-worth of bumf - needlessly - and stall, prevaricate and obstruct legitimate inquiries.
A former Flag Officer Submarines once told me that the only truly secret issues for the RN were missile targeting data, sub patrol box locations and the design of the unique, onboard reactors. The rest, he said wearily, was little more than bureacratic nonsense in place to make inadequate people feel important.
Whitehall will do what it does best when faced with having to put up a smokescreen against embarrassing public access to records. It will classify entire rainforests'-worth of bumf - needlessly - and stall, prevaricate and obstruct legitimate inquiries.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
I have my questions prepared.
One is the target list.
I hadn't thought of the SPAs but I will add that one too.
Any other secret squirrels ready to write?
One is the target list.
I hadn't thought of the SPAs but I will add that one too.
Any other secret squirrels ready to write?
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Save yourself time, money and frustration, PN. Access your unit's by-service copy of the relevant volume of Jane's Fighting Drunks or nip down your local library if you're a civvie and you'll find the envelopes of most weapons' systems and platforms in public purview and as-near-as-damnit accurate.
It's the kind of information the Secret Sams love to protect, hostile countries already know, and terrorists don't really care about. But it keeps paranoid senior officers and Whitehall mandarins in employment.
The MoD has the ultimate get-out clause. It does not have to and will not be forced to disclose anything judged not to be in the national interest. Game of catch-all anyone? The rest, as they say, is unadulterated bullshi*.
It's the kind of information the Secret Sams love to protect, hostile countries already know, and terrorists don't really care about. But it keeps paranoid senior officers and Whitehall mandarins in employment.
The MoD has the ultimate get-out clause. It does not have to and will not be forced to disclose anything judged not to be in the national interest. Game of catch-all anyone? The rest, as they say, is unadulterated bullshi*.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Outlaw 51, no the list I want starts Arkangeleski and goes down to Zhitomir.
BTW I have just sent all MY archives to the Old War Office Building. I understand the vaults there are empty at the moment and it is the perfect place to bury secrets.
BTW I have just sent all MY archives to the Old War Office Building. I understand the vaults there are empty at the moment and it is the perfect place to bury secrets.
Last edited by Pontius Navigator; 27th Oct 2004 at 07:04.
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The MoD has the ultimate get-out clause.
All in all, it is a potential nightmare, we have to respond to these requests within 20 working days. For the inquisitive out there, its not going to be an option, at a minimum of £600 per request (I believe), those people will possibly remain inquisitive...... but for another government lets say.... who could run a programme to generate automated requests. The whole of the MoD could grind to a halt (if it hasn't already).
On the bright side, some civil servants would actually have a job to do!
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According to press reports in Oz today, the reason why information about George Bush's service in the Air National Guard was not fully disclosed is that "rat excrement in the storage boxes made it hard to review the files".
On a par with the "great flood of 1965", "the office move from Whitehall to Bath" and other excuses offered by Sir Humphrey in pursuading Jim Hacker not to release material!
We've had FOI legislation in Oz for almost 30 years. In opposition, politicians wax lyrical about its benefits. In government however, most politicians go out of their way to thwart the objectives of the legislation. One of our national papers maintains a journalist full time in pursuing FOI requests through the tribunals and courts - often with interesting results that are then published for all to see.
Welcome to 'Open Government'.
On a par with the "great flood of 1965", "the office move from Whitehall to Bath" and other excuses offered by Sir Humphrey in pursuading Jim Hacker not to release material!
We've had FOI legislation in Oz for almost 30 years. In opposition, politicians wax lyrical about its benefits. In government however, most politicians go out of their way to thwart the objectives of the legislation. One of our national papers maintains a journalist full time in pursuing FOI requests through the tribunals and courts - often with interesting results that are then published for all to see.
Welcome to 'Open Government'.