Serious cash saving ideas.
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Serious cash saving ideas.
Anyone have any ideas to save the money from the budget? Here are a few of mine:
1. No more Padres. If anyone wants to go to church - there's one in every town. Anyone need counselling - there's plenty of organizations that can help. Welfare - OC PMS' job. At an average wage of 50k per year, there must be a couple of hundred of them - there's £10mil per year in wages alone for you.
2. Scrap blue and green uniforms - flying suits or Soldier 95 for everyone. Must be worth a few £mil each year too.
3. UAS's, recruiting doesn't seem to be a problem. Should be a coupla £mil in there.
4. How about the ATC while we're at it - the cadets that is, although..... Perhaps a £mil or 2 each year. What do we need them for? Are they really helping defend the nation?
5. Procurement plans that work. If the product doesn't turn up on the agreed delivery date - we don't pay for it, or pay a lot less at any rate.
6. Buying stuff from the best, most cost-effective supplier. Not the place that offers the best political pay-back, jobs for the boys etc.
Seriously - there must be ways to save cash without reducing our credibility as a fighting force. Tell me your ideas - I could get £25 for a Gem if you think of enough!
1. No more Padres. If anyone wants to go to church - there's one in every town. Anyone need counselling - there's plenty of organizations that can help. Welfare - OC PMS' job. At an average wage of 50k per year, there must be a couple of hundred of them - there's £10mil per year in wages alone for you.
2. Scrap blue and green uniforms - flying suits or Soldier 95 for everyone. Must be worth a few £mil each year too.
3. UAS's, recruiting doesn't seem to be a problem. Should be a coupla £mil in there.
4. How about the ATC while we're at it - the cadets that is, although..... Perhaps a £mil or 2 each year. What do we need them for? Are they really helping defend the nation?
5. Procurement plans that work. If the product doesn't turn up on the agreed delivery date - we don't pay for it, or pay a lot less at any rate.
6. Buying stuff from the best, most cost-effective supplier. Not the place that offers the best political pay-back, jobs for the boys etc.
Seriously - there must be ways to save cash without reducing our credibility as a fighting force. Tell me your ideas - I could get £25 for a Gem if you think of enough!
PPatRoN
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1. No more Padres. If anyone wants to go to church - there's one in every town. Anyone need counselling - there's plenty of organizations that can help.
Welfare - OC PMS' job.
At an average wage of 50k per year, there must be a couple of hundred of them - there's £10mil per year in wages alone for you.
bargain to me! At 13 years, they're on £45,450. Sorry, don't know the present chaplain strength, but I reckon £10m would be hard to find.Many organisations talk a lot of
about a holistic approach to the welfare of their people. By providing chaplains the RAF is actually doing it, or trying, employing people to care for the spiritual welfare of RAF personnel. Rather work for an organisation which counts each person as a mere unit of human resource? You'll find plenty to choose from when the day comes to say tata!Even if -- and I'm not conceding this point, just acknowledging it -- even if the continued existence of the chaplains branch is mere lip service to an ideal of a holistic view of service life, even if the MOD only continue to pay them to make the RAF seem to be interested in the pastoral, emotional and spiritual welfare of RAF people and families, isn't lip service better than nothing? What would it do to the culture of the RAF if those weird misfits with plastic collars weren't around any more? I'd say it'd help to usher in a new, cold, utilitarian, poisonous ethos.
I hope it never comes to pass. I fear someone is even now reading this, thinking how to spin the abolition of chaplaincy as a response to a groundswell of opinion from the front line. And I fear it'd be one of those actions whose practical impact is dwarfed by its symbolic impact. Chaos theory works for organisations too, and ditching chaplains could be the butterflies wings that change the climate.
There's a church in every town? True. There's a doctor's surgery, and a dentist, in every town, too.
OK. Rant over. Time for a beer!
adr
Last edited by adr; 9th Aug 2004 at 20:45.
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adr - your point re "unit of human resource" is well made. Some years back, when my company's Personnel Dept. became the Human Resources Dept., I remarked to my boss that I objected to being referred to as a "resource". With a straight face, he told me "but that is just what you are, a resource of this company, to be used on company business as I see fit".
It took the wind from my sails, I can tell you, but it was what he practised from then on. We were no longer people, but units of the company, identified by a company number!
Kind regards,
TheNightOwl.
It took the wind from my sails, I can tell you, but it was what he practised from then on. We were no longer people, but units of the company, identified by a company number!
Kind regards,
TheNightOwl.
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I agree, padres, chaplains, are great. One looked after me very well during a personal welfare crisis a few years ago - much better than OC PMS, who didn't want to get involved becuase to do so might threaten his pension. But if we're going to cut our forces to levels that will leave us ill-equipped to defend our Nation, even more poorly placed to police the world, then should we not cut out every non-fighting part before removing a single fighting unit?
Oh right - thats what this country needs to do!
Tell the tens of thousands of teenagers who actually do get off their backside, polish their shoes and participate in a bit of disciplined training every week that - actually - you should all hand back your uniforms and sod off to the towns street corners or hang around the shopping precinct swiging cans of cider and scaring old people instead. We *need* to save a massive £8m....
I'd see the Red Arrows gone before the Air Training Corps any day.
Cheers
WWW
Tell the tens of thousands of teenagers who actually do get off their backside, polish their shoes and participate in a bit of disciplined training every week that - actually - you should all hand back your uniforms and sod off to the towns street corners or hang around the shopping precinct swiging cans of cider and scaring old people instead. We *need* to save a massive £8m....
I'd see the Red Arrows gone before the Air Training Corps any day.
Cheers
WWW
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Wish my cadets would polish their shoes! 
There are about 35,000 spaceys and a similar number in the ACF and SCC, so let's just turf 100,000 youngsters onto the streets with nothing to do shall we? Wonder what sort of trouble they would get up to then, at a cost to the legal process.
The ATC is dual funded. Cadets have to contribute themselves. So not only are they making the effort to get off their 4r$es and do something worthwhile in the community, they are also paying £17 per month (on my sqn at least) for the privilege.
Let's get rid of 100,000 dedicated kids who one day would have used their leadership and team skills in the workplace.
Makes sense to me.
There are about 35,000 spaceys and a similar number in the ACF and SCC, so let's just turf 100,000 youngsters onto the streets with nothing to do shall we? Wonder what sort of trouble they would get up to then, at a cost to the legal process.
The ATC is dual funded. Cadets have to contribute themselves. So not only are they making the effort to get off their 4r$es and do something worthwhile in the community, they are also paying £17 per month (on my sqn at least) for the privilege.
Let's get rid of 100,000 dedicated kids who one day would have used their leadership and team skills in the workplace.
Makes sense to me.
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£17? Crumbs, 'DaCat, are you buying in flying hours for them as well? That's anywhere between £1.70 and £2.13 per parade night if my ailing memory serves me right. Must be a rich area 
Seriously, the ATC is worth every penny. Staish at Halton (previous one, I think) was heard to utter that they made the best recruits. The reason, apparently, that the published figures for ATC joining up are relatively low are a reluctance to admit belonging for fear of extra beasting!
WWW, your comments are spot on.
Edited to make sense!
Seriously, the ATC is worth every penny. Staish at Halton (previous one, I think) was heard to utter that they made the best recruits. The reason, apparently, that the published figures for ATC joining up are relatively low are a reluctance to admit belonging for fear of extra beasting!
WWW, your comments are spot on.
Edited to make sense!
Last edited by Green Meat; 10th Aug 2004 at 11:31.
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Oh right - thats what this country needs to do!
Tell the tens of thousands of teenagers who actually do get off their backside, polish their shoes and participate in a bit of disciplined training every week that - actually - you should all hand back your uniforms and sod off to the towns street corners or hang around the shopping precinct swiging cans of cider and scaring old people instead. We *need* to save a massive £8m....
I'd see the Red Arrows gone before the Air Training Corps any day.
Tell the tens of thousands of teenagers who actually do get off their backside, polish their shoes and participate in a bit of disciplined training every week that - actually - you should all hand back your uniforms and sod off to the towns street corners or hang around the shopping precinct swiging cans of cider and scaring old people instead. We *need* to save a massive £8m....
I'd see the Red Arrows gone before the Air Training Corps any day.
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All in Perspective
D-IFF Ident,
Whilst i agree with your sentiments wholeheartedly, i think we need to get a sense of perspective on where the real downfalls are. Let's look (very roughly) at the figures:
1. Padres < £10M
2. Uniforms < £5M
3. UAS's < £20M
4. ATC ~£10M
5. Procurement ~£500M on poor choice and contracts
You choose
Whilst i agree with your sentiments wholeheartedly, i think we need to get a sense of perspective on where the real downfalls are. Let's look (very roughly) at the figures:
1. Padres < £10M
2. Uniforms < £5M
3. UAS's < £20M
4. ATC ~£10M
5. Procurement ~£500M on poor choice and contracts
You choose
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Interestingly enough, I notice that ATC cadets now qualify to fly to their summer camp courtesy of Squeezy Jet.
Wish we were exposed to such luxuries instead of the standard 7 hour coach to Prestwick/sleep on the floor package prior to any det.
Wish we were exposed to such luxuries instead of the standard 7 hour coach to Prestwick/sleep on the floor package prior to any det.
Savings
How about this for saving money:
The person in charge of a Flight on a squadron is a Flt Lt
The person in charge of the squadron is a Sqn Ldr
The person in charge of (3 sqns) a wing is a Wg Cdr
The person in charge of (3 stations) a group is a Gp Capt
etc
or failing that explain to the taxpayer why the current situatation regards ranks for the above are Sqn Ldr, Wg Cdr, Gp Capt and Air Cdre respectively.
Bring back Sgt Pilots and save even more money. If they want to fly in the military, they will accept lower wages.
But definately get rid of Best Blue (never wore the last two) and blues, as everywhere we go we use CS95.
The person in charge of a Flight on a squadron is a Flt Lt
The person in charge of the squadron is a Sqn Ldr
The person in charge of (3 sqns) a wing is a Wg Cdr
The person in charge of (3 stations) a group is a Gp Capt
etc
or failing that explain to the taxpayer why the current situatation regards ranks for the above are Sqn Ldr, Wg Cdr, Gp Capt and Air Cdre respectively.
Bring back Sgt Pilots and save even more money. If they want to fly in the military, they will accept lower wages.
But definately get rid of Best Blue (never wore the last two) and blues, as everywhere we go we use CS95.
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Much cheaper than maintaining a fleet of Chipmunks! A quick search of the ATC website shows one of their aims to be :
Rather brings us back full circle to WWW's comments that the ATC is a valuable organisation even if it isn't (nod in Cat5's direction) directly a recruiting tool.
To promote and encourage among young people a practical interest in aviation and the Royal Air Force.
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Cheers Green.
One of the questions I had recently at my VR(T) commisioning board was "How can you justify the ATC in this time of defence cuts?", so I did have a pat answer ready!
I say keep them. It gives me something to do at weekends (like paperwork etc!). It will be a sad day if VGS were scrapped.
The ATC is the worlds biggest gliding organisation. Lets keep it this way.
I was sad when they sold the Valiants and would happily welcome a few single seaters back into the VGS world (although I do agree that it doesn't fall in line with the bean counters view of things).
It is a shame that the MOD has to sell/cut back on assets to gain the cash to pay for something that is running over budget/overtime etc. What ever happened to smart procurement!
Rant over
One of the questions I had recently at my VR(T) commisioning board was "How can you justify the ATC in this time of defence cuts?", so I did have a pat answer ready!
What about the VGS's, don't think they have been mentioned yet. Dare say they cost quite a bit each year to run, any thoughts??
The ATC is the worlds biggest gliding organisation. Lets keep it this way.
I was sad when they sold the Valiants
and would happily welcome a few single seaters back into the VGS world (although I do agree that it doesn't fall in line with the bean counters view of things).It is a shame that the MOD has to sell/cut back on assets to gain the cash to pay for something that is running over budget/overtime etc. What ever happened to smart procurement!
Rant over
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I think i might have posted this before but here goes....
1. Get rid of MU's and have squadron personell do the job. why can the FAA/AAC do without them and the RAF can't?
2. Streamline RAF Tech Trade Structure - Bring the Squdron tech Trade structure in Line with the FAA (3 soon to be 2 trades) thus allowing common training and support systems where commom airframes are involved.
3. Allow non-com aircrew into the FAA/RAF helecopter communities at least. works in the AAC so I cant see why it cant work the other 2.
4. Direct entry Aircrew - why can a Tanker Master from the Merchant Marine practically walk on to an RN warship and take command. And yet a youngish Airline Pilot cannot say fly Transports for the RAF, same with groundcrew etc.
5. Save cash in retention by getting rid of all the stupid allowances (and I mean ALL) and provide all sevicemen/women with a Tax free Salary when overseas or outside UK Territorial waters.
Political...
Get rid of trident weapons and convert Subs to SSGN's. Result of this would mean the closure of DM Glen douglas (Moving to Coulport) and the Bagging of at leat 500 CS's. Then provide a minimal deterrent with Nuclear TLAM. Cancel or pospone A comensurate number of new astute hulls thus saving more money.
Thats all for now...
1. Get rid of MU's and have squadron personell do the job. why can the FAA/AAC do without them and the RAF can't?
2. Streamline RAF Tech Trade Structure - Bring the Squdron tech Trade structure in Line with the FAA (3 soon to be 2 trades) thus allowing common training and support systems where commom airframes are involved.
3. Allow non-com aircrew into the FAA/RAF helecopter communities at least. works in the AAC so I cant see why it cant work the other 2.
4. Direct entry Aircrew - why can a Tanker Master from the Merchant Marine practically walk on to an RN warship and take command. And yet a youngish Airline Pilot cannot say fly Transports for the RAF, same with groundcrew etc.
5. Save cash in retention by getting rid of all the stupid allowances (and I mean ALL) and provide all sevicemen/women with a Tax free Salary when overseas or outside UK Territorial waters.
Political...
Get rid of trident weapons and convert Subs to SSGN's. Result of this would mean the closure of DM Glen douglas (Moving to Coulport) and the Bagging of at leat 500 CS's. Then provide a minimal deterrent with Nuclear TLAM. Cancel or pospone A comensurate number of new astute hulls thus saving more money.
Thats all for now...