Tax Exemption - Lobby your MP
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Working Hard,
I agree with you entirely, however you have missed the point BUS was making. Virtually ALL of the perks and allowances that we signed up to have been lost. Yes, the pension is still in place, but for how long?
And as for RyanAir and BMI, well you need to take a good long look at their allowance package. I don't see many of them living in tents in the deserts for months at a time. Likewise, I've seen the hotels and other perks they receive. Why do you think so many ex RAF pilots join the airlines??
Kind regards
The Swinging Monkey
I agree with you entirely, however you have missed the point BUS was making. Virtually ALL of the perks and allowances that we signed up to have been lost. Yes, the pension is still in place, but for how long?
And as for RyanAir and BMI, well you need to take a good long look at their allowance package. I don't see many of them living in tents in the deserts for months at a time. Likewise, I've seen the hotels and other perks they receive. Why do you think so many ex RAF pilots join the airlines??
Kind regards
The Swinging Monkey
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AA,
You mention lot's of other's that could claim 'special treatment', and 'could go on strike'. Fact is, quite a few of us, certainly at one rather chilly RAF Stn covered for the last lot of 'public servants' that decided to strike. We suffered a 10 month leave ban. They get 16 percent. Our reward on return to the RAF? Go to the Gulf to join the war for 3 months. (Oh and 2.5 percent!)
Sorry mate, you obviously missed out on the fun, but things have changed since your day, and you need to realise that it's not the flying club it may have been when you were in the business.
I say, bring on tax free on deployment. We deserve something other than LSSA taxed at 40 percent!!
You mention lot's of other's that could claim 'special treatment', and 'could go on strike'. Fact is, quite a few of us, certainly at one rather chilly RAF Stn covered for the last lot of 'public servants' that decided to strike. We suffered a 10 month leave ban. They get 16 percent. Our reward on return to the RAF? Go to the Gulf to join the war for 3 months. (Oh and 2.5 percent!)
Sorry mate, you obviously missed out on the fun, but things have changed since your day, and you need to realise that it's not the flying club it may have been when you were in the business.
I say, bring on tax free on deployment. We deserve something other than LSSA taxed at 40 percent!!
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You have. No other employer offers the package which you currently enjoy. Yes you have a point about being shot at, bombed etc. but lets face it you volunteered for just that. Which other company offers a 38/16 year exit point on full pension AND full backdated inflation increase at age 55? As said above try RyanAir or BMI for example, you may just get a shock. 10 out of 10 for trying though
Although fortunate to be on an accompanied tour at the moment, I do speak from experience. My first tour was 40 months - of those 40 months I spent 30 at sea on exercises and operations around the world. Yes I volunteered for this lifestyle however did not expect to be away that much. I accepted it, it was (and still is) part of the job, however a tax free pay packet whilst away would have greatly increased my morale etc etc.
I believe (though correct me if wrong) that the RFA (thats Royal Fleet Auxillary) get tax free pay after a certain amount of time at sea. Why not the RN? (the role of a sailor in an RFA ship is pretty similiar to that of an RN sailor - and in the exact same location) Why not the Army or RAF if deployed overseas? LSSB or LSSA that are supposed to make up for this fact of service life do not equate to being tax free. So why not bin these allowances for deployed personnel and bring in tax free status - We don't have that many employees that this would seriously add to the defence budget however it would seriously increase the morale and retention of members of the Armed Forces. And if you say that's what the X Factor is also for then frankly the X Factor is not enough and needs to be drastically increased. If Baroness Dean of the AFPRB wants to come and talk to me about it, I would be quite happy to discuss this issue with her. How much do we waste on some aspects of defence spending? Millions!
Bottom line 1: Decide if you want to be major player on the world stage and invest properly in one of those enablers. If not, dont get involved so much.
Bottom line 2: Bin all the glossy magazines/IIP studies/more glossy magazines and spend what you save across the board on increasing the X Factor. Frankly who reads (or who has time to read) even half of the cr@p that gets produced? Why not send it out via email? Most people have email accounts these days. It would save a few trees as well.
Oggin
Last edited by Oggin Aviator; 9th Jul 2004 at 06:56.
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Oggin Aviator - I was part of the team that produced the "Military Salary" all those years ago and the principles we held then still hold good today. It is VERY UNFORTUNATE that the principles have been hijacked, it seems to me, by senior personnel for their own benefit at the expense of other ranks; and I don't mean just "other ranks"
Many of the decisions are made by senior officers for stamping by the Treasury and as there is a finite amount of money any proposals that may affect those earnings, tax free or otherwise, at the top will be discarded by "suggestion" to the Treasury. The old LOA was always tax free and substantial for example and was recognised to be a way of "compensating" for being away from home soil. there are other examples that may have disappeared with the passage of time, I am out of touch now.
However we could list a few thing that are NOT available in civvy street: Education allowances, subsidised housing (may not be to your taste but is there), pensions, medical, dental, early retirement, generous leave, (is free travel with leave still there?) etc etc. As for hotels etc you quote, some are good but some!! you might prefer the tent and as the airlines get special rates the hotels dont always provide what you see in the brochure. And then there are the rosters - you might not like them. Yes I do speak from experience since until acouple of years ago I worked for one of them. Very happy with my retirement from both sides and no complaints about either.
Many of the decisions are made by senior officers for stamping by the Treasury and as there is a finite amount of money any proposals that may affect those earnings, tax free or otherwise, at the top will be discarded by "suggestion" to the Treasury. The old LOA was always tax free and substantial for example and was recognised to be a way of "compensating" for being away from home soil. there are other examples that may have disappeared with the passage of time, I am out of touch now.
However we could list a few thing that are NOT available in civvy street: Education allowances, subsidised housing (may not be to your taste but is there), pensions, medical, dental, early retirement, generous leave, (is free travel with leave still there?) etc etc. As for hotels etc you quote, some are good but some!! you might prefer the tent and as the airlines get special rates the hotels dont always provide what you see in the brochure. And then there are the rosters - you might not like them. Yes I do speak from experience since until acouple of years ago I worked for one of them. Very happy with my retirement from both sides and no complaints about either.
Oggin
Actually RFA personnel are considered merchant seamen. When outside UK water they do not pay tax. RN personnel serving in RFA vessels (and RNR too these days) do pay tax, wherever they are. Yes, in the same ship.
Actually RFA personnel are considered merchant seamen. When outside UK water they do not pay tax. RN personnel serving in RFA vessels (and RNR too these days) do pay tax, wherever they are. Yes, in the same ship.
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WorkingHard
Agree with most of what you say at the end of the day it is each to their own. The one difference however is the ultimate price you may have to pay whilst doing your duty, unlike civilian life.
AS for:
I dont think I mentioned hotels ......
Agree with most of what you say at the end of the day it is each to their own. The one difference however is the ultimate price you may have to pay whilst doing your duty, unlike civilian life.
AS for:
As for hotels etc you quote,
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I do sympathise with the above posters, mainly because my Air Force parents went through the same thought processes years ago when stationed abroad. Their ex pat friends enjoyed an enviable lifestyle (tax-free, of course), whilst the poor old Services folk enjoyed their tax deducted at source.The Inland Revenue web site is quite informative at www.inlandrevenue.gov.uk
and this page mentions Crown Servants
http://www.inlandrevenue.gov.uk/cnr/faq2.htm
and this page mentions Crown Servants
http://www.inlandrevenue.gov.uk/cnr/faq2.htm
It always amuses me that we are effectively paying back some of our wages to the people that pay us??? I mean, why don't they just not bother taxing us at all and just pay us a lower gross salary? It would surely save millions in beaucracy alone?
I agree that all allies doing the same job in the same ****ty countries (Iraq) should be free of government payments.
I agree that all allies doing the same job in the same ****ty countries (Iraq) should be free of government payments.
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Gets my vote - bin X factor, and let's have tax free deployments. I'm betting there wouldn't be a need for a DWR system (more cost saving)ect. There'd be awaiting list to go out
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Bliar and his cronies dismantled the 'Foreign Earnings Deduction' back in 97, that allowed you to remain resident in UK but if out of the country for more than 9 months your tax rate was 0% - this type of deduction is still available in a majority of EU countries but not so here...this was certainly the case for civilians and one assumes transposed over to the armed forces
As such the only alternative available is a negotiated/agreed 'tax allowance' to cover sundry incidental expenses whilst you are away - this has been used across the board by many companies not limited to aviation - you cannot achieve as high a saving as under 'FE deduction' but at least it is something - as example I have agreed with the IR an allowance of £100 for every day I am outside the UK on company business (this is not paid but is deducted from my tax liability so if I am away 100 days a year I get £10,000 deducted from my gross taxable income) - whilst a friend of mine who works for a UK based multinational gets £200 a day which his company has agreed with the IR!
The attitude of the tax inspector that I dealt with was very positive - he saw the logic that if I was sweating my backside off in Nigeria as example I should have some 'benefit' over and above working in the UK and with the canx. of FE Deduction this was the obvious way to do legitimately do it within existing IR procedures.
As such the only alternative available is a negotiated/agreed 'tax allowance' to cover sundry incidental expenses whilst you are away - this has been used across the board by many companies not limited to aviation - you cannot achieve as high a saving as under 'FE deduction' but at least it is something - as example I have agreed with the IR an allowance of £100 for every day I am outside the UK on company business (this is not paid but is deducted from my tax liability so if I am away 100 days a year I get £10,000 deducted from my gross taxable income) - whilst a friend of mine who works for a UK based multinational gets £200 a day which his company has agreed with the IR!
The attitude of the tax inspector that I dealt with was very positive - he saw the logic that if I was sweating my backside off in Nigeria as example I should have some 'benefit' over and above working in the UK and with the canx. of FE Deduction this was the obvious way to do legitimately do it within existing IR procedures.
Thread Starter
Greetings all,
Having just returned from one deployment in May, I am now one month into another, this time in sunny Baghdad. I shall be writing again to my MP to express my opinion that I deserve a little more consideration when it comes to the tax thingy. The thing that got my goat this time was getting a pay statement with the tax taken off the LSSA at 40%........ grips just a bit.
So again to you all: write to your MP using the link on my original post - let's face it troops here in Iraq are newsworthy again...... if only as a political tool.
ps weather's turned out nice again
Having just returned from one deployment in May, I am now one month into another, this time in sunny Baghdad. I shall be writing again to my MP to express my opinion that I deserve a little more consideration when it comes to the tax thingy. The thing that got my goat this time was getting a pay statement with the tax taken off the LSSA at 40%........ grips just a bit.
So again to you all: write to your MP using the link on my original post - let's face it troops here in Iraq are newsworthy again...... if only as a political tool.
ps weather's turned out nice again
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Gents,
As I understand it, the Xfactor was brought in in the 1970's to try and cover things like overtime and allowances. I am 99% sure there was no mention of Tax so binning Xfactor and paying all you Serving folk a lower wage wouldn't actualy get rid of any cs's as such.
On a personal note I don't think they can pay you enough while your in a war zone. However to pay you danger money would be an addmittace by the MoD that the job was dangerous! - could any of you see Buff or any of his Senior CS's admitting to that in these days of 'who can we sue?' - no! I don't think so.
So the only way for this to go would be to give you all Tax free Salaries whilst outwith the European Union and Britsh dependencies
I think loss would be offset by-
1/ The increase in retention - i'm sure a few of you out there would decide to stay in the services. Lowering the cost of Churn in the form of Pensions and training new personel
2/ Doing away with all the allowances - and the beurocrats that administer them
3/ Doing away with a fraction of the Civil servants that administer Tax.
I don't understand how HMG ahs got away with it for so long. I was told that while you were on one of her HMS's - it was effectively british territory and therefore you were subject to britsh tax (I assume its the same for Land/air bases overseas)- But that obviously isn't the case as RFA personell get there wedge untouched by Golden Brown. So a question, Does the NAAFFI manager on the Larger HMS's have to pay Tax???? What constitutes 'British territory' Do the Overseas Diplomats pay tax? Embassy's are regarded as British Territory so they must.
Just some thoughts
As I understand it, the Xfactor was brought in in the 1970's to try and cover things like overtime and allowances. I am 99% sure there was no mention of Tax so binning Xfactor and paying all you Serving folk a lower wage wouldn't actualy get rid of any cs's as such.
On a personal note I don't think they can pay you enough while your in a war zone. However to pay you danger money would be an addmittace by the MoD that the job was dangerous! - could any of you see Buff or any of his Senior CS's admitting to that in these days of 'who can we sue?' - no! I don't think so.
So the only way for this to go would be to give you all Tax free Salaries whilst outwith the European Union and Britsh dependencies
I think loss would be offset by-1/ The increase in retention - i'm sure a few of you out there would decide to stay in the services. Lowering the cost of Churn in the form of Pensions and training new personel
2/ Doing away with all the allowances - and the beurocrats that administer them
3/ Doing away with a fraction of the Civil servants that administer Tax.
I don't understand how HMG ahs got away with it for so long. I was told that while you were on one of her HMS's - it was effectively british territory and therefore you were subject to britsh tax (I assume its the same for Land/air bases overseas)- But that obviously isn't the case as RFA personell get there wedge untouched by Golden Brown. So a question, Does the NAAFFI manager on the Larger HMS's have to pay Tax???? What constitutes 'British territory' Do the Overseas Diplomats pay tax? Embassy's are regarded as British Territory so they must.
Just some thoughts
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The problem with the X factor is that it goes to everyone, including the fatty that has failed his fitness test and those rubber desk johnnies regardless of time in theatre.
All I've left you with there is the option to recoup the money from those unable to deploy - hardly fair if it's a service injury, and impossible to get past discrimination laws anyway!
BCH
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When I was with Libbies Fat Albert fleet. I heard somewhere (may have been a good rumour) that Long Haul BA got a tax reduction on earnings when out of country. On enquiry (Admin) I was told that if they did - we didn't!! Perhaps someone with an inside line to BA could ask some questions. Then ask your MP.
Thread Starter
BCH,
WTF are you on about? If you are not part of the organisation doing the job out of the country in difficult places why should you receive extra pay? This is the question that the x factor does not address.
Tax exemption may well reduce those leaving early, taking option points etc..... oh, silly me the government wants to reduce numbers.
Note to self: Have a word.
ps must fly something big just went bang not very far away.....
WTF are you on about? If you are not part of the organisation doing the job out of the country in difficult places why should you receive extra pay? This is the question that the x factor does not address.
Tax exemption may well reduce those leaving early, taking option points etc..... oh, silly me the government wants to reduce numbers.
Note to self: Have a word.
ps must fly something big just went bang not very far away.....
I thought it was QoL, not dosh which was the primary concern these days?
As for US-style tax-breaks (spot the exchange officers who manage to fly overseas at the end/beginning of the month....) - fat chance. Not even worth wasting time over.
As for US-style tax-breaks (spot the exchange officers who manage to fly overseas at the end/beginning of the month....) - fat chance. Not even worth wasting time over.
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Great Idea!
Shame the sponging gits at westwhateveritis are more interested in linig thier pockets to vote for anything that would actually help those of use who do their dirty work.
Love the job, don't mind the travel too much and accept that I took HM's shilling, but it would be really nice to think that I was appreciatted just that little bit more.
Or is that me just being cynical....
Shame the sponging gits at westwhateveritis are more interested in linig thier pockets to vote for anything that would actually help those of use who do their dirty work.
Love the job, don't mind the travel too much and accept that I took HM's shilling, but it would be really nice to think that I was appreciatted just that little bit more.
Or is that me just being cynical....
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Cracking Idea - have a tax free salary just like the spams et al once you are overseas. But of course you would have to take their lower rates of pay. Then of course what about the non-contributory pension - most civvie firms have either stopped pension plans based on earnings or required their employees to double their contributions. Of course no-one else gets more than about a months pay if they are made redundant unlike the 18 months pay plus the normal gratuity. What about paying for helath care and dentistry like everyone else does? The list is endless
If you don't like it then the door is there.
If you don't like it then the door is there.
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BUS,
As an example, my Sqn has only sent some of its aircrew (and support staff) out on any of our recent dets, even though all of them may be willing and able to go. So should we take money off those who stay behind to give it to those who go? The alternative is for Tony to give more money to the Forces for pay, and there are two hopes of that one...
BCH
As an example, my Sqn has only sent some of its aircrew (and support staff) out on any of our recent dets, even though all of them may be willing and able to go. So should we take money off those who stay behind to give it to those who go? The alternative is for Tony to give more money to the Forces for pay, and there are two hopes of that one...
BCH