aircrew clean own aircraft

[you want what??]

Pardon me for even suggesting this, but are the aircrew too important to lend a hand cleaing their own Sh1t out of the Aircraft, or washing out some poor tw*ts blood?

"but thats not in our Job description?"

i dont remember that phase in any of my training courses either!

dont feel singled out here either, im a Airframe tech, and as such, we are left to do all that, cos the Leckies and Fairies dont want to get their overalls dirty, and the Sooties are away playing cards in the smokers cabin, where the supervisors dont think to look! to the point now where its just accepted to be a riggers job!

If i may suggest, why not go and volunteer to give a hand, the ground crew will then see you as perhaps a good guy who lends a hand, and will be more inclined to let the odd snag go, or fix/bodge something for you so you can get your couple of hours flying in. perhaps there will be more servicable aircraft to fly if you help out and let the Techies/riggers, get a few extra hours fixing stuff instead of cleaning up after you! Trust me, at the end of the day, they will be at work a hell of a lot longer than you will. Your niff naff and spuriuos 707 entries will see to that!

[Always_broken_in_wilts]

Sounds like someone now regrets not putting in that extra bit of work whilst at school

Last time I looked, and I was a techie for many years, windows, cabin floors etc were in fact all the domain of the Rigger........hence thats why you deal with it

Maybe next time I get back of route and leave a multitude of scoff on the bunk, not in the freight bay or the gypsy's will thieve it , I should label it for the consumption of hard working riggers only..........or maybe just give it to ALL the hard working guys who keep our aircraft flying.....despite all our niff naff 707 entries

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

[soddim]

Polishing the Lightnings on 19 squadron used to be the standard "punishment" for junior pilots who got caught in my day. However, after we spread the word about metal polish reducing the strength of the aircraft panels it was banned. Neat rumour that one!

[woptb]

Don't wish to micturate on your strawberry patch , 'always broken',but whats the minimum qualification level for a winch weight these days ?. DING ! DING ! - Going down !.

[you want what??]

Always_broken,

i am MORE than qualified to do any aircrew job, however it was never my passion. i do my job because its what i enjoy, and whilst i do conceed, that windscreens etc are our domain, im certainly not cleaning any Aircrew Piss tubes or your of your sh*t you leave behind, purely in the basis that im a rigger and its just been left to me! but as you seem to have adopted Aircrew way of thinking, you're not really willing to give anyone a hand! as for your "Scoff", well, thats something thats not really going to happen, lynham couldnt make snack pack if their lives depended on it! only the sealed goods they havent touched are palletable, and only cos you have no choice in there a 30000 ft.

and one more thing! Riggers are ALL hard working, when did you hear at a shift handover that the riggers had nothing to doo and everyone else was busy? thats happens as often as brigadoon appears!

i personally dont see whats wrong with a loady sweeping out his own cargo bay/passenger cabin. remember as a techie it was instilled in you as imperitive to keep your own workplace tidy. you dont go out to a servicable jet and find Kimwipe and drissett pads everywhere, or oil cans and tools lying about do you? not unless they have just finished. they dont go off shift and think, "to hell with it, let the aircrew deal with it, makes no odds to me"

i guess i'll just have to wait longer to find aircrew who treat us like human beings, they must be out there somewhere, surely! c'mon someone proove to me my quest is not fruitless!

funny how soddim, (not having a go at you soddim) echos what most other pilots say, that cleaning the aircraft was a punishment or a sh*t duty no-one wanted! what makes you think we want that mind numbing task anymore than you do? and for us it not punnishment, its dad to day work!

[Always_broken_in_wilts]

Wop Not a single A level, GCSE, CSE or any other qualification to me name but it's amazin' what fantastic job satisfaction and substantial financial rewards a bit of hard work can bring

Unhappy rigger

"i do my job because its what i enjoy"......not the picture your painting here fella

"as for your "Scoff", well, thats something thats not really going to happen, lynham couldnt make snack pack if their lives depended on it!".......that maybe so but ask the shift who had the 3 big boxes of sarnies, pax meals, choc bars etc etc that I left on the bunk this week if they enjoyed their "supper"

"personally dont see whats wrong with a loady sweeping out his own cargo bay/passenger cabin"..... most of us do! and we have a quick tidy round on arrival back at Lyneham but after a long and often very busy route it's not surprising things get missed

"you dont go out to a servicable jet and find Kimwipe and drissett pads everywhere, or oil cans and tools lying about do you?"..... maybe not but we regulalry find the ladder lying around, the PMA not put away, the PMA carry bag not secured, seats incorrectly fitted, seat backs not tensioned, life jackets not distributed evenly, loose rolls of kimwipe, detritus from previous trips etc etc..........come watch next time any of us do our pre flight and take note of the crap we continually have to put right

"i guess i'll just have to wait longer to find aircrew who treat us like human beings"... not one of us asks you to do ANYTHING that is not in your job spec so go whinge at your trade managers/sponsors as they are the ones who have put you in the unhappy sitch you currently find yourself in

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

[Krystal n chips]

yww? Just a bit of advice sunshine Wind the proverbial in please. As you are so clearly pi$$ed off on the Line, why not ask for a transfer to a nice, quiet, structures / hyd / tyre / role bay------bet you would be killed in the rush by the guys who WANT to work on the Line and away from the tedium of a bay. Some helpful advice for the future. How much c$$p does a Herc generate ? How much do you think an IT Airbus / Boeing etc generates? Think about it carefully. Now, as an engineer, you will encounter a nasty shock called ATA Chapt 25. True, you won't have to clean the aircraft, but you will have to clean and rectify the galleys, toilets, trim, carpets, furnishings and fittings etc. Plus the average cleaner doesn't give a rats about the condition of the F/D or cabin, so you will invariably find you have to continue their efforts as well.
As an engineer, it goes with the territory so either get used to it or change direction now. Simplistic enough ?
Before you ask, no, never cleaned a Herc when working for Aunty Betty, merely a pax on numerous tedious excursions. Plenty of experience in the IT / Corporate and Scheduled worlds however.
Nothing personal in this post just that you don't have a valid point or credible argument--simply a full scale whinge Have a nice day

PS I am a nice person really, my mum says so and so does my financial controller

[StiffNose]

As a co-pilot on 32 Sqn VIP Andovers in the 70's it was standard practice to keep a can of Brasso in the headset bag to polish the brass static vent plate and the chrome engine exhausts between sorties. Not to mention topping up the engine oil at the top of a ladder in No 1 uniform which was our standard "flying kit". Even on VIP Pembrokes in the 80's as Captains we polished the static vents, wiped off the oil (lots) from the engines, hoovered the carpets and cleaned the tables before each flight. It was about pride in the job, a quality which seems to be in short supply nowadays.

[Beeayeate]

What a sad little thread.

Aircraft cleaning was in the domain of the rigger in my day, didn't expect any help from the zobbits, they'd just get in the way! As did anybody else who could be press-ganged, they just didn't do it properly. Anyway, cleaning the exterior of aircraft was only a real p.i.t.a. if some lazy gits hadn't done it for yonks previously. An external "cleaning" was just about the only time that the whole skin of the kite would be gone over, often revealing small or incipient problems. And it was always easier to spot potential snags, (hyd weeps, u/s fasteners, loose rivets, panel fits, stuff like that) on clean kites, that was the whole point really I reckon. Biggest problem was trying to get others to keep them in a clean state! But using that manky MoD issue Wadpol, what a waste of time - Tepol and water did the job better (especially if you promised a drink to the fire section).

As for internal cleaning, clean as you go whatever trade, only a matter of sense I reckon, think FOD, aircrew would do this as well. The pi$$ tubes were, I admit, never easy to deal with, always felt uncomfortable doing that. But they needed doing and handling with care as urine, next to mecury, is one of the most corrosive substances you can have in aircraft (all those tales of pi$$ing down the Vulcan entrance door, no thought for the riggers). So it was in the interests of riggers to ensure these "relief" gadgets were carefully retrieved from the kite and emptied and cleaned out properly - it prevented a lot of "corrosion" hassle in the long run. The bogs on VickyTens, Brits, etc were no real problem either with a sh1t-wagon (but Racasan filling could be fun - blue hands job).

No, "cleaning" the kite was all part of the job for a rigger, moaned about yes (like everything else), but never left to, or expected to be done by, others, especially zobbits. But StiffNose has it about right - "It was about pride in the job, a quality which seems to be in short supply nowadays."

[soddim]

Bit worrying this enmity twixt ground and aircrew - never existed in my day because we all got on and did our own jobs and respected others who did likewise. Hope these quarrels don't go on today at the sharp end or it'll soon be getting blunt.

[Always_broken_in_wilts]

Soddim,

What you read here is not a true reflection of the co-existence of air and ground crew here in Wilts. I have yet to fly with an SVC from the line, or most other work places come to that, who has not had a top time and enjoyed the "mucking in" that is the day to day life when operating Albert

One person is not happy with his/her lot and has chosen the wrong forum to expect any sympathy and you only have to look at the variety of backgrounds of those responding to confirm that

Whilst never "sweetness and light" I believe a feeling of grudging admiration for what each of us achieve with the limited resources available is prevalant on both sides of the air/ground crew fence

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

[Bill O'Average]

But youre just honoury aircrew, ABIW. Smallest vote, biggest gob by the look of it.

[Always_broken_in_wilts]

Oh dear

It's late and someones been at the sauce again All that booze is gonna kill you fella Best drink some coffee and try and get some sleep and maybe you will feel better about yourself in the morning

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

PS Should I check me Pm's again for the usual punchy repsonse

[Bill O'Average]

Not at all, dullard. Im actually night flying tomorrow so Ive been allowed to stay up a bit late by me mum. (You know, night flying, from the front, hands on the controls). Of course, you wouldnt know would you. Do you pretend to be a pilot when you go to airshows?

Go on, you can tell us.


Youre paranoid ref threatening PMs bloke.

I like to think that we still have that bridge in the ditch dwellers. We wouldnt dream of leaving the cab in cack state after a sortie. After exercise, its always the aircrews job to de gunge the inside and outside. Land on, de kit cab, drag it to washdown, de gunge.

If we are doing a PSI (VIP) job, its down to the crew to make sure its shiny.

There is still a requirement for the Flight Commander to sign the job card of each cab each month stating that the cabs are clean too! Not sure if its ever done though!

[SilsoeSid]

BOA,

Im actually night flying tomorrow so Ive been allowed to stay up a bit late by me mum. (You know, night flying, from the front, hands on the controls). Of course, you wouldnt know would you.

One day Bill, when you get older, you'll be put in charge and the other guy flies the aircraft and you tell him what to do! None of that dirty hands on stuff, unless of course you're single pilot.

We wouldnt dream of leaving the cab in cack state after a sortie. After exercise, its always the aircrews job to de gunge the inside and outside. Land on, de kit cab, drag it to washdown, de gunge.

..... find excuse to go to mess, NAAFI, pay office, or if all else fails either be in charge of high pressure hose or get to tail rotor first.

If we are doing a PSI (VIP) job, its down to the crew to make sure its shiny.

I always found asking for help was a good idea. Never be afraid to ask for help. While you panicked over planning the fuel, route, timings, clearances, HLSs, hotels etc, others would offer to help out. Teamwork is a great thing.....if you have friends that is.

It's been a while Bill, and you still live up to your username here.

[Always_broken_in_wilts]

"Youre paranoid ref threatening PMs bloke."

So you can't recall the one you sent me entitled

"Kick your Steward sh!tbox"

Which contained the following terms of endearment

"Bratton, 0800, Sunday Morning. Best you sign up to BUPA. *** rash"

All those late nights boozing have started to take affect me old Overage chum but it's a comfort to find from your lates PM that I am "irritating" you

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

[Bill O'Average]

Do you two do a double act? Can we expect to see you both at Rhyl this Summer? Which one is the funny one?

ABIW, youre dillusional mate. I thnk you write yourself PMs just to feel wanted.

[Always_broken_in_wilts]

So of course you will not be able to recall that other timeless classic PM containing this well educated oneliner ..................

"You really are an insecure childish pr**k. Grow the **** up, to@@er."

Or did I make this one up as well

Bearing in mind the comment above and those from my previous post are just "cut and paste" I am not sure why you are denying sending them. Maybe others have some of your gems they would like to share

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

[Echo 5]

ABIW,

I've been sat on the sidelines just enjoying this thread.
Such eloquence and remarkable turn of phrase from the "cammed up" one.

"Nob Rash " ....................... Don't you just love it (hee hee).

E5.

[PPRuNe Pop]

Cut out the real term swearing guys. You butch's aint the only ones who read it!