Airbus tankers for Australia
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Airbus tankers for Australia
Hot off the press?
Minister for Defence Media Mail List
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Friday, 16 April 2004 073/2004
EADS/QANTAS WINS $2 BILLION AIR-TO-AIR REFUELLING COMPETITION
The Military Transport Division of the European Aeronautic Defence and Space Company (EADS) teamed with Qantas Defence Services has been selected as the preferred tenderer for the Royal Australian Air Force's fleet of new air-to-air refuelling aircraft, Defence Minister Robert Hill announced today.
Senator Hill said the government had selected the EADS A330 Multi-Role Tanker Transport Aircraft to replace the RAAF's ageing Boeing 707 aircraft in an approximate $2 billion project.
"The five new aircraft will be capable of refuelling F/A-18, F-111, Airborne Early Warning and Control and Joint Strike Fighter aircraft," Senator Hill said.
"They will also have a significant strategic air lift capacity when not engaged in aerial refuelling tasks, including the ability to carry 293 passengers and a significant amount of cargo.
"The acquisition of an additional aircraft will provide a big boost to operational capabilities - giving the RAAF a wider range of activities in one area of operations while also supporting refuelling and transport activities in a second area."
"Our aircraft, for example, would enable non stop deployment of six F/A-18s from Darwin to Butterworth in Malaysia, while carrying 43 tonnes of support equipment and stores." Senator Hill said that recent experiences had showed the vital importance of this type of aircraft as a force multiplier during combat operations. This was borne out by the extremely valuable work done by the RAAF 707 tankers over Afghanistan during the War on Terror, and by the high demand for aerial refuelling during the recent Iraqi Freedom operations.
Contract negotiations will now commence with EADS for the purchase of five aircraft.
The basic aircraft will be constructed in Europe, with four of the five having refuelling modifications installed and integrated by Qantas in Brisbane. Qantas Defence Services will also conduct through life support of the aircraft in Australia.
"Australian industry will also be involved in the design of the refuelling system, project management and production of aircraft components and engine parts for export," Senator Hill said.
"Over the life of the program, the value of the work to be undertaken by Australian industry and the associated technology to be transferred to Australia exceeds $500 million."
The project will be a significant defence industry boost for Australia. Senator Hill said that all the aircraft would be fitted with an Electronic Warfare Self Protection suite for defence against shoulder fired surface to air missiles. Additionally, the EADS tender package includes a hospital bed kit for emergency medical evacuations and advanced simulators for crew training. Contract signature is expected later this year, with the aircraft planned to enter service from 2007.
Media contacts
Catherine Fitzpatrick (Senator Hill)
02 6277 7800 0405 351 245
Defence Media Liaison
02 6265 3343 0408 498 664
www.defence.gov.au
Minister for Defence Media Mail List
-------------------------------------------
Friday, 16 April 2004 073/2004
EADS/QANTAS WINS $2 BILLION AIR-TO-AIR REFUELLING COMPETITION
The Military Transport Division of the European Aeronautic Defence and Space Company (EADS) teamed with Qantas Defence Services has been selected as the preferred tenderer for the Royal Australian Air Force's fleet of new air-to-air refuelling aircraft, Defence Minister Robert Hill announced today.
Senator Hill said the government had selected the EADS A330 Multi-Role Tanker Transport Aircraft to replace the RAAF's ageing Boeing 707 aircraft in an approximate $2 billion project.
"The five new aircraft will be capable of refuelling F/A-18, F-111, Airborne Early Warning and Control and Joint Strike Fighter aircraft," Senator Hill said.
"They will also have a significant strategic air lift capacity when not engaged in aerial refuelling tasks, including the ability to carry 293 passengers and a significant amount of cargo.
"The acquisition of an additional aircraft will provide a big boost to operational capabilities - giving the RAAF a wider range of activities in one area of operations while also supporting refuelling and transport activities in a second area."
"Our aircraft, for example, would enable non stop deployment of six F/A-18s from Darwin to Butterworth in Malaysia, while carrying 43 tonnes of support equipment and stores." Senator Hill said that recent experiences had showed the vital importance of this type of aircraft as a force multiplier during combat operations. This was borne out by the extremely valuable work done by the RAAF 707 tankers over Afghanistan during the War on Terror, and by the high demand for aerial refuelling during the recent Iraqi Freedom operations.
Contract negotiations will now commence with EADS for the purchase of five aircraft.
The basic aircraft will be constructed in Europe, with four of the five having refuelling modifications installed and integrated by Qantas in Brisbane. Qantas Defence Services will also conduct through life support of the aircraft in Australia.
"Australian industry will also be involved in the design of the refuelling system, project management and production of aircraft components and engine parts for export," Senator Hill said.
"Over the life of the program, the value of the work to be undertaken by Australian industry and the associated technology to be transferred to Australia exceeds $500 million."
The project will be a significant defence industry boost for Australia. Senator Hill said that all the aircraft would be fitted with an Electronic Warfare Self Protection suite for defence against shoulder fired surface to air missiles. Additionally, the EADS tender package includes a hospital bed kit for emergency medical evacuations and advanced simulators for crew training. Contract signature is expected later this year, with the aircraft planned to enter service from 2007.
Media contacts
Catherine Fitzpatrick (Senator Hill)
02 6277 7800 0405 351 245
Defence Media Liaison
02 6265 3343 0408 498 664
www.defence.gov.au
Good news for the Airbus team!
But not terribly surprising. My unofficial analysis of the KC-767A against the A330 to meet the 2 key Australian requirements showed that the A330 met them comfortably, whereas the 767 didn't quite. Add to that the vastly better take-off perfromance of the A330 plus the recent Boeing ethics concerns and it seemed a pretty obvious single horse race.
Good onya!
But not terribly surprising. My unofficial analysis of the KC-767A against the A330 to meet the 2 key Australian requirements showed that the A330 met them comfortably, whereas the 767 didn't quite. Add to that the vastly better take-off perfromance of the A330 plus the recent Boeing ethics concerns and it seemed a pretty obvious single horse race.
Good onya!
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So how come the penal colony can buy there's when we have to pay for everything on the never never.
With Blair and his side kicks our economy will be no better than Argentina in 25 years.
With Blair and his side kicks our economy will be no better than Argentina in 25 years.
No particular reason why a 330 should need to operate from our little military bases. Normally Brize will do - but they'll probably need to use proper size airports as alternates.
No doubt Trust-me-Tone and his cronies don't believe in paying for car insurance either. Military is expensive - yes. But kinda handy when you need it. Just like any other insurance!
No doubt Trust-me-Tone and his cronies don't believe in paying for car insurance either. Military is expensive - yes. But kinda handy when you need it. Just like any other insurance!
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BEagle, your report on the differences between the 767 tanker and the A330 was wonderfully informative. Thank you. I still refer to it for help on assessment of possible future A330/767 airliner operations at Cork which has a relatively short field. Certainly not a question of comparing like with like, of course, with tanker flying for the military but still makes for very interesting reading. 
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OUTSTANDING!!!
Just when I had almost given up hope and assumed that we'd ditch sensible decisions based upon detailed anaysis of all proposals and just buy whatever the USAF wanted....or even worse, buy their second hand equipment off them - 20 or so years past it's use-by date....
Just when I had almost given up hope and assumed that we'd ditch sensible decisions based upon detailed anaysis of all proposals and just buy whatever the USAF wanted....or even worse, buy their second hand equipment off them - 20 or so years past it's use-by date....
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What is Airbus' strategy ?
I just cannot understand Airbus' long term strategy.
The A330-300 is too big for a tanker so I suppose the aircraft sold to Australia is A330-200. But this aircraft is the only existing direct competitor of the yet to be launched 7E7. If Airbus starts to put new A330-200 into tanker market then it won't be available for civil market. Which aircraft is Airbus proposing to counter 7E7 aggressive marketing in the medium term ?
Another point is that many tankers are transformed commercial aeroplanes or new civil airplanes in the very end in the production line like the 767. Airbus start selling A330 as tanker aircraft. Does this mean that the A330 is coming to its end ?
The A330-300 is too big for a tanker so I suppose the aircraft sold to Australia is A330-200. But this aircraft is the only existing direct competitor of the yet to be launched 7E7. If Airbus starts to put new A330-200 into tanker market then it won't be available for civil market. Which aircraft is Airbus proposing to counter 7E7 aggressive marketing in the medium term ?
Another point is that many tankers are transformed commercial aeroplanes or new civil airplanes in the very end in the production line like the 767. Airbus start selling A330 as tanker aircraft. Does this mean that the A330 is coming to its end ?
As the Airbus CEO said - he's as worried about 7E7 as he was by Sonicruiser!
A330-200 is the version being proposed as A330 MRTT.
Most Airbus wide-body effort is being put into A380. A340-500 and -600 are doing well and there's still plenty of demand for A330.
As for narrow bodies, A318/319/320/321 are being sold in plentiful numbers.
Whereas 767 is old - and 7E7 doesn't yet exist.
You lucky Ozmates will get a great jet!
A330-200 is the version being proposed as A330 MRTT.
Most Airbus wide-body effort is being put into A380. A340-500 and -600 are doing well and there's still plenty of demand for A330.
As for narrow bodies, A318/319/320/321 are being sold in plentiful numbers.
Whereas 767 is old - and 7E7 doesn't yet exist.
You lucky Ozmates will get a great jet!
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Play me for the Dumb B#$$er I am, but can it get out of the Top bases fully Loaded(Fuel and Cargo)? will all the underneath be Fuel or will it be a hybrid like the 707, and only off load it's own Fuel?
just some dumb Questons
Oh and Do the French still owe us for Wheat and sheep like when we got the Mirage????
3Downandlocked
just some dumb Questons
Oh and Do the French still owe us for Wheat and sheep like when we got the Mirage????
3Downandlocked
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Just thought I would drop in some nice computer generated vids of the 7E7, looks like a nice jet too
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita.../b7e7-pics.htm
SIA
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita.../b7e7-pics.htm
SIA
Sea level, ISA+15C, the current A330-200 at MTOW requires a 8300ft runway length - whereas the 767-33ER needs 1000 ft more!
Fuel in the tanker will be identical to the current pax version - all 111 tonnes (244 000 lb) of it!
Don't know about the sheep, sorry. Or the wheat.
Fuel in the tanker will be identical to the current pax version - all 111 tonnes (244 000 lb) of it!
Don't know about the sheep, sorry. Or the wheat.
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You'd certainly hope and expect that the project team had run the numbers for Australian conditions (and it looks like they have).
Learmonth 10000ft runway - OK (except on 40+ deg days...)
Curtin 10000ft runway - OK (except on 40+ deg days...)
Scherger 10000ft runway - see above
Darwin 11000ft runway - more than OK
Tindal 9000ft - a little more iffy but you can always offload or use Darwin.
Richmond could be the base with TOW limitations as it only has a 7000ft strip.
Learmonth 10000ft runway - OK (except on 40+ deg days...)
Curtin 10000ft runway - OK (except on 40+ deg days...)
Scherger 10000ft runway - see above
Darwin 11000ft runway - more than OK
Tindal 9000ft - a little more iffy but you can always offload or use Darwin.
Richmond could be the base with TOW limitations as it only has a 7000ft strip.
Meanwhile, back in Blighty:
Air tanker deal in jeopardy
DOMINIC O’CONNELL (Sunday Times)
THE FUTURE of Britain’s biggest private-finance initiative (PFI) deal, a £13 billion agreement to supply the Royal Air Force with new tanker aircraft, is in doubt because the negotiations are going so slowly.
Government officials and aerospace executives have only three weeks left to hammer out a deal to meet an unofficial deadline to conclude the talks.
One source close to the talks rated their chances of success at “60-40 in favour”, but added that there were still significant obstacles to be overcome.
A dramatic end to the negotiations over the Future Strategic Transport Aircraft (FSTA) project would be in keeping with its history. Under consideration by the Ministry of Defence for several years, the FSTA has included one complete revamp when it was decided that the bids received were not good enough.
The project envisages the replacement of the RAF’s fleet of ageing tanker aircraft with new ones based on modern commercial airliners.
Last year there was a bitter bidding war between two consortiums, one led by BAE Systems and Boeing, the other by the European defence group EADS. The EADS consortium, AirTanker, eventually won, being named as the preferred bidder in January. It plans to provide a fleet of new and used Airbus A330 aircraft. On Friday it was also chosen to provide A330 tankers to the Australian armed forces.
But in January the defence secretary, Geoff Hoon, stressed that a contract would not be awarded unless the government considered that it offered value for money.
He said: “This is a highly complex PFI deal and a number of important issues remain to be resolved before we will be in a position to confirm the PFI route. Final decisions will not take place until the contract negotiations have been satisfactorily concluded.”
The talks have stalled on the crucial issue of risk transfer to the private sector. PFI rules require private-sector contractors to take on risk as part of a demonstration that the contract will be cheaper overall than a government-provided service.
With FSTA, the risk has boiled down to how aircraft that are surplus to requirements will earn money by being leased out to other users.
FSTA proposes that a number of aircraft be kept as a core RAF fleet for use in peacetime. A larger reserve fleet, which would be called up in time of war, would be leased out until needed. It is thought that the A330, already in use with many charter airlines, could be hired by holiday companies to fly tourists to the Mediterranean. Other air forces are likely to want A330 tankers for use on military exercises.
One executive involved in the talks said: “I think it would be very sad if we can’t get a deal just because we can’t satisfy some notional test on risk transfer.”
Another source said the RAF was in a difficult position because there was no fallback plan to provide new tankers, and the existing fleet was reaching the end of its service life and proving more difficult and expensive to maintain
Air tanker deal in jeopardy
DOMINIC O’CONNELL (Sunday Times)
THE FUTURE of Britain’s biggest private-finance initiative (PFI) deal, a £13 billion agreement to supply the Royal Air Force with new tanker aircraft, is in doubt because the negotiations are going so slowly.
Government officials and aerospace executives have only three weeks left to hammer out a deal to meet an unofficial deadline to conclude the talks.
One source close to the talks rated their chances of success at “60-40 in favour”, but added that there were still significant obstacles to be overcome.
A dramatic end to the negotiations over the Future Strategic Transport Aircraft (FSTA) project would be in keeping with its history. Under consideration by the Ministry of Defence for several years, the FSTA has included one complete revamp when it was decided that the bids received were not good enough.
The project envisages the replacement of the RAF’s fleet of ageing tanker aircraft with new ones based on modern commercial airliners.
Last year there was a bitter bidding war between two consortiums, one led by BAE Systems and Boeing, the other by the European defence group EADS. The EADS consortium, AirTanker, eventually won, being named as the preferred bidder in January. It plans to provide a fleet of new and used Airbus A330 aircraft. On Friday it was also chosen to provide A330 tankers to the Australian armed forces.
But in January the defence secretary, Geoff Hoon, stressed that a contract would not be awarded unless the government considered that it offered value for money.
He said: “This is a highly complex PFI deal and a number of important issues remain to be resolved before we will be in a position to confirm the PFI route. Final decisions will not take place until the contract negotiations have been satisfactorily concluded.”
The talks have stalled on the crucial issue of risk transfer to the private sector. PFI rules require private-sector contractors to take on risk as part of a demonstration that the contract will be cheaper overall than a government-provided service.
With FSTA, the risk has boiled down to how aircraft that are surplus to requirements will earn money by being leased out to other users.
FSTA proposes that a number of aircraft be kept as a core RAF fleet for use in peacetime. A larger reserve fleet, which would be called up in time of war, would be leased out until needed. It is thought that the A330, already in use with many charter airlines, could be hired by holiday companies to fly tourists to the Mediterranean. Other air forces are likely to want A330 tankers for use on military exercises.
One executive involved in the talks said: “I think it would be very sad if we can’t get a deal just because we can’t satisfy some notional test on risk transfer.”
Another source said the RAF was in a difficult position because there was no fallback plan to provide new tankers, and the existing fleet was reaching the end of its service life and proving more difficult and expensive to maintain
One executive involved in the talks said: “I think it would be very sad if we can’t get a deal just because we can’t satisfy some notional test on risk transfer.”
