F4 Phantom
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I see your F4 bump glad rag.
The Luftwaffe, in their wisdom will keep some of their F4s a while longer. Hard to believe, but they will retire a squadron of Tornados instead and keep their last F4s to 2015. These have APG65 and AMRAAM BTW.
Woken up thursday morning by a pair, Typhoon and an F4 going around and around, over the house at about 2000ft. The whistle from the blc took me back 30 years to Leuchars.
And about my earliest childhood memory is looking up to watch the F4s older brother, the Voodoo flying overhead. Yikes, I'm old.
The Luftwaffe, in their wisdom will keep some of their F4s a while longer. Hard to believe, but they will retire a squadron of Tornados instead and keep their last F4s to 2015. These have APG65 and AMRAAM BTW.
Woken up thursday morning by a pair, Typhoon and an F4 going around and around, over the house at about 2000ft. The whistle from the blc took me back 30 years to Leuchars.
And about my earliest childhood memory is looking up to watch the F4s older brother, the Voodoo flying overhead. Yikes, I'm old.
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F4 memories
I second that Bakgat. The Toom anecdotes are excellent and coming from people of my era closely involved with the F4 they are a valuable link with comrades now sadly lost touch with. If there is anyone out there who remembers their time at Coningsby and in particular on 41Sqn between 1973 & 1976 I would love to hear from them. My own recollections are of a special kind of family you become on a squadron and the competition with other units. In the 70's we did amalgamate briefly as the 641st TAF during the Cyprus emergency and the bond was just as strong. Are any of you still alive and kicking, if so please let us share our memories with those who were not so fortunate to know those glorious times.
Seek & Destroy forever!
Seek & Destroy forever!
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Yes, the 641st TFS in Cyprus was a fitting end to the multi-role days of the Coningsby F4 Wing. If I remember correctly, 54 had already regressed to single role AD and the majority of the aircrew were from 6 and 41. The multi-role abilities were appropriate because the priorities changed rapidly from GA to Recce to AD and back again almost twice each day and the armourers worked their backsides off changing loads that were never dropped by aircrew.
Sadly, in the early days, one of the senior officers boasted about 6 Sqn's night GA capability and NEOC had us sitting in the dispersal day and night.
However, once it was established that James Callaghan was never going to give the required clearance to deliver any of the ordinance by day or night, the field telephone on the beach of the sub aqua club was made full use of by the crews on readiness.
'Scramble the lightnings - Whee - Phut!'
Sadly, in the early days, one of the senior officers boasted about 6 Sqn's night GA capability and NEOC had us sitting in the dispersal day and night.
However, once it was established that James Callaghan was never going to give the required clearance to deliver any of the ordinance by day or night, the field telephone on the beach of the sub aqua club was made full use of by the crews on readiness.
'Scramble the lightnings - Whee - Phut!'
F4 multi role returned a little later; before going to defend the air around Stanley, we had to go and learn how to shoot holes in Lincolnshire.
When in theatre, every 30 days, skysplash etc were downloaded for servicing; we then whizzed off to W Falkland and downloaded 1200 rounds of HEI into a couple of unfortunate Pukaras.
Best fun you can have with your trousers on.
When in theatre, every 30 days, skysplash etc were downloaded for servicing; we then whizzed off to W Falkland and downloaded 1200 rounds of HEI into a couple of unfortunate Pukaras.
Best fun you can have with your trousers on.
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Whee - Phut
Also common on the PR9 which used the Lightning's engines minus the reheat. When it happened at Nairobi Civil (Embakasi) one was in for a long wait. We finished up with a white square painted in outline on the underside of each wing, near the engine; this was where the wing had to be thumped with a hide faced hammer to free some sticking valve. Most times this resulted this resulted in Whee - Whoosh and that strange smell, rather like apples that one got from AVPIN.
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Ah, the hide-faced hammer! Remember a Flt Cdr on 19 cursing the skill of the hide-faced hammer operator. It was a dark and dirty night when the AOC scrambled the Leconfield Wing - after a recall from Friday happy hour I might add. After the usual Whee...Phut, said Flt Cdr was unstrapped and halfway down the ladder when he met the hide-faced hammer operator on the way up.
'Stay in the cockpit, Sir, I know where to hit it!'
He did, he did and it started - 45 mins later, two approaches and a dodgy landing from an ILS in Amber/Red Wx and that operator was not the Flt Cdr's favourite.
I know, thread creep WIWOL.
'Stay in the cockpit, Sir, I know where to hit it!'
He did, he did and it started - 45 mins later, two approaches and a dodgy landing from an ILS in Amber/Red Wx and that operator was not the Flt Cdr's favourite.
I know, thread creep WIWOL.
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Eject! Eject!
I noticed somewhat earlier in these threads mention of a crew that banged out following rollers at Coningsby. One of the crew came down in the 'pits' just outside the perimiter and both were picked up very quickly and taken to the SMC for a check up. The aircraft however, continued on its merry way slowly dropping a wing as the effects of only having one engine providing thrust took hold. The disturbing thing was it looked for a moment as though it might complete a 180 and return to the airfield. As it got lower a wing caught the top of a tree and it met Mother Earth after connecting with the corner of a house, the occupants comments were recorded in the earlier thread! The said house was on the bank of the river and as the toom impacted, one wing stayed on the west bank ( Lincolnshire not Palastine ) the other wing complete with undercarriage sliced into the field on the opposite side and the whole fusalage entered the river running North to South, 9 points for technical merit.
In order for the crash guard to reach the other side of the river, a rope was slung across and a boat was obtained, complete with oars, to provide a means of propulsion. Unfortunately, the crash guard were RAF and not RN and halfway across the co-ordination was lost, along with the oars, resulting in much profane language as to who was at fault. Meanwhile, the river current was doing its own thing and carried the boat and occupants down stream still swearing, only now it was getting fainter as they got further away. If it wasn't for the bridge lower down abruptly ending their voyage it could have been a task for ASR! Thankfully both Aircrew and the crash guard survived the experience.
In order for the crash guard to reach the other side of the river, a rope was slung across and a boat was obtained, complete with oars, to provide a means of propulsion. Unfortunately, the crash guard were RAF and not RN and halfway across the co-ordination was lost, along with the oars, resulting in much profane language as to who was at fault. Meanwhile, the river current was doing its own thing and carried the boat and occupants down stream still swearing, only now it was getting fainter as they got further away. If it wasn't for the bridge lower down abruptly ending their voyage it could have been a task for ASR! Thankfully both Aircrew and the crash guard survived the experience.
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Help
Don't suppose any of you fine F4 chaps can help me out? I'm trying to find a picture of the 'Cartoon' Phantom. I seem to remember he has his hat pulled dowm over his eyes. Anyway, if you know what I'm talking about please help. If not, I stand ready for a kicking. TVM
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A quick google found the following web page with a couple of examples of what you are looking for:
The Phantom picture archive
The Phantom picture archive
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Alas I am but a yoof and the closest I got was the three?? that were parked on the lazy runway outside the old 11 (ex 23) HAS site at Leeming.
Big and ugly but looked far sexier than the panavia cr4p I was forced to work on.
I am that sad a spotter type now I am building a 1/72 RF-4E from Mr Revell......
It has been a hoot reading all the tales of derring do, better by far than some of the books I've bought.
Big and ugly but looked far sexier than the panavia cr4p I was forced to work on.
I am that sad a spotter type now I am building a 1/72 RF-4E from Mr Revell......
It has been a hoot reading all the tales of derring do, better by far than some of the books I've bought.
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http://www.pprune.org/military-aircr...l-tales-4.html
Then-Captain Kevin Hale, an EWO in the 561st recalled that he was ‘cottonmouthed’ the whole time from take-off to touchdown. He was in Captain Jack Patterson’s pit in the seventh jet, callsign Lonestar 43, of the 16 headed to Baghdad.
We were briefed to expect twenty percent losses. That is a sobering statistic.
We hit the tanker as fragged [directed by the ATO portion or ‘frag’], then flew in a long trail formation with about 7 nautical miles between jets. I was in the back, head down running the scopes when Jack said, “Ooh, look at that.” There were tracers everywhere!
Jack jinked and turned the jet, but all that cost us altitude and airspeed until we wound up at about 12 thousand feet. We had to climb back up and that was a long climb….
We heard the first MiG call as we were heading north from the south of Baghdad. At around 0320, we saw a spear of burning smoke pointed right at us. That was awe inspiring.
The ‘burning smoke’ was F-15C pilot Captain Steve Tate’s AIM-7 Sparrow kill of an Iraqi F1 sent to intercept the string of Weasels. Detected by the E-3 AWACS’ long-range radar, the controller aboard the Boeing-built jet vectored Tate’s flight into position. Tate acquired the F1 on his radar, locked it up and called “Fox One” as he pickled the Sparrow. Seconds later, the unlucky Iraqi pilot died in the fireball.
Major Bart Quinn led an eight ship of 81st TFS F-4Gs in support of F-117s and F-111s attacking the Salman Pak chemical and biological warfare (CBW) production and storage site located to the southeast of Baghdad. His strike package was a few minutes behind the opening attacks on Baghdad. Such was the importance placed on destroying the stocks of biological and chemical weapons stored at the target area, that even though the initial wave would undoubtedly stir up the air defenses, Salman Pak had to be hit to prevent those stockpiles from being disbursed and used against Coalition forces.
One of the concerns for the F-117s was the belief that the Iraqis had moved at least one battery of the Kuwaiti I-HAWK (Improved Homing All the Way Killer) SAM from the conquered country to the Salman Pak area. The HAWK’s continous wave targeting radar could track the ‘Nighthawks’ better than the more common pulsed radars, so the F-117s were a little nervous about being vulnerable. Quinn’s flight was briefed to watch for the HAWK.
Additionally, two SA-3 sites were located to the northeast and northwest of the target area and were a real concern to the non-stealth F-111 ‘Aardvarks’ who would go in at low level to hit the CBW bunkers. Says Bart Quinn of the mission:
The F-111s were going in fairly low in order to lob their laser guided bombs into the entrances of the storage bunkers. The theory was that the bomb would penetrate the door and fry any ‘bugs’ inside, thus destroying them immediately. The problem was that there were dozens of threats in the immediate area, including an SA-8 at the F-111s release point. The -8 is a fearsome weapon particularly at low to medium altitudes. We had to make sure we got anything that could target the strikers.
During the mission planning, the EWOs, led by mine, Ken ‘Howdy’ Hanson, divided up the threats among the flight, taking the highest priority ones in order depending on what stage of the strike we were on at any given moment.
Vinnie Quinn [no relation], our Fighter Weapons School graduate, took a look at my chart and just muttered “Schweinfurt.” [During World War II, the ball bearing plants located in that German city were a prime target of the American heavy bomber campaign. The Germans knew it was valuable and had placed unbelievably heavy concentrations of flak and fighter airfields in the area to protect it. The first such mission cost 60 bombers each with a crew of 10. It became known as ‘Black Thursday’ because of the horrendous losses.]
‘Victor’ Ballanco told me that the computer models estimated that we’d lose 30 percent of our force that first night. That gets your attention in a hurry as I briefed the 15 other guys in my Weasel mission.
From the beginning, fuel was a concern. The planning was tight the whole way in and out. I told everyone that we just did not have the gas to deal with any MiGs encountered or if anyone went down, there could be no RESCAP, we just had to leave whoever it was and press.
Stepping to my jet, I couldn’t get the APR-47 repeater scope on my dash to dim. It was so bright I couldn’t see the other instruments. Rather than go to another jet and risk missing the take-off, I taped my right flight glove over the scope and told Ken what I was doing. The -47 scope was my primary threat warning receiver, but I knew Ken could take care of us and there was no way I was going to miss this flight.
We met our tankers as fragged, about 100 miles south of the Iraqi border. The tracks were designed to be that far to keep the Iraqis guessing about our actions. Unfortunately, that’s a long drive when fuel is tight. To their credit, those tankers flew us much closer to the border than they were supposed to, thus letting us get as much gas into us as possible. I really appreciated that from them.
The whole time on the tanker and heading north, the flight kept expecting to hear the ‘abort’ code word, but since I knew that the first bombs had already dropped, I knew we were going.
We were in a line astern formation, with me at about 20 thousand feet and the rest of the jets stepped up in altitude into the high 20s. As we crossed the border, I remember saying to Howdy “This is it.”
At about that time, I caught some chatter between my # 2 and # 4 about air-to-air missiles. I wasn’t exactly sure what they were referring to, but I told them to “disregard and press.”
About then, I saw off my left wing a large, green explosion. Looking like liquid metal, the first thought I had was that it was a flare the Iraqis had set off to see us. Of course, it was really triple A. From then on, the fire was just constant.
At Nasiriyah, I saw a cloud which was unusual because the night was clear everywhere else. That cloud was actually the remnants of the 57mm AAA gun powder. I realized I had to go through that cloud and the intense, continuous barrage AAA.
I was scared, but what I remember most is that I didn’t want to **** up or make a mistake that cost somebody else. My throat was so tight it hurt; it was like my adenoids were growing. I said to Howdy that “here we are at the cradle of civilization and we’re gonna blow it up.”
As we got to the target area, I called “Buntari” which was the code for the Weasels that they were cleared to fire.
It was about then that Derek Knight, in my #4 saw a MiG taking off below us, but as briefed, we couldn’t do anything about it due to fuel.
We set up an orbit between the Euphrates River to the south and the Tigris to the north. In the orbit, we always had at least an element facing toward the target area and the threats.
Outside it is just mayhem. SAMs are going off unguided, just long streaks of flame, the triple A tracers with their greenish flashes and sparkles, I can see cars driving along roads, and the city lights are still on. I peeked underneath the glove hiding my APR-47 scope and it looked like a bowl of Cheerios had been spilled on the screen, so thick were the threats of SA-6s and -8s.
Howdy shot at the SA-8 which went down at the right time, but we don’t know for sure that we killed him. I forgot about the HARM’s exhaust and didn’t have the motors in mil[itary power – full power without using afterburner]. Using mil kept them from air starvation in the event of ingesting missile exhaust, but I just forgot until I had one flame out. I quickly got it re-lit and pressed on.
After the war, one of the F-111 drivers contacted Howdy and thanked him for taking out that SA-8 since he had to fly right at the SAMs position to loft his bombs. That was nice thing for the guy to do and made us feel good about the job.
Then-Captain Kevin Hale, an EWO in the 561st recalled that he was ‘cottonmouthed’ the whole time from take-off to touchdown. He was in Captain Jack Patterson’s pit in the seventh jet, callsign Lonestar 43, of the 16 headed to Baghdad.
We were briefed to expect twenty percent losses. That is a sobering statistic.
We hit the tanker as fragged [directed by the ATO portion or ‘frag’], then flew in a long trail formation with about 7 nautical miles between jets. I was in the back, head down running the scopes when Jack said, “Ooh, look at that.” There were tracers everywhere!
Jack jinked and turned the jet, but all that cost us altitude and airspeed until we wound up at about 12 thousand feet. We had to climb back up and that was a long climb….
We heard the first MiG call as we were heading north from the south of Baghdad. At around 0320, we saw a spear of burning smoke pointed right at us. That was awe inspiring.
The ‘burning smoke’ was F-15C pilot Captain Steve Tate’s AIM-7 Sparrow kill of an Iraqi F1 sent to intercept the string of Weasels. Detected by the E-3 AWACS’ long-range radar, the controller aboard the Boeing-built jet vectored Tate’s flight into position. Tate acquired the F1 on his radar, locked it up and called “Fox One” as he pickled the Sparrow. Seconds later, the unlucky Iraqi pilot died in the fireball.
Major Bart Quinn led an eight ship of 81st TFS F-4Gs in support of F-117s and F-111s attacking the Salman Pak chemical and biological warfare (CBW) production and storage site located to the southeast of Baghdad. His strike package was a few minutes behind the opening attacks on Baghdad. Such was the importance placed on destroying the stocks of biological and chemical weapons stored at the target area, that even though the initial wave would undoubtedly stir up the air defenses, Salman Pak had to be hit to prevent those stockpiles from being disbursed and used against Coalition forces.
One of the concerns for the F-117s was the belief that the Iraqis had moved at least one battery of the Kuwaiti I-HAWK (Improved Homing All the Way Killer) SAM from the conquered country to the Salman Pak area. The HAWK’s continous wave targeting radar could track the ‘Nighthawks’ better than the more common pulsed radars, so the F-117s were a little nervous about being vulnerable. Quinn’s flight was briefed to watch for the HAWK.
Additionally, two SA-3 sites were located to the northeast and northwest of the target area and were a real concern to the non-stealth F-111 ‘Aardvarks’ who would go in at low level to hit the CBW bunkers. Says Bart Quinn of the mission:
The F-111s were going in fairly low in order to lob their laser guided bombs into the entrances of the storage bunkers. The theory was that the bomb would penetrate the door and fry any ‘bugs’ inside, thus destroying them immediately. The problem was that there were dozens of threats in the immediate area, including an SA-8 at the F-111s release point. The -8 is a fearsome weapon particularly at low to medium altitudes. We had to make sure we got anything that could target the strikers.
During the mission planning, the EWOs, led by mine, Ken ‘Howdy’ Hanson, divided up the threats among the flight, taking the highest priority ones in order depending on what stage of the strike we were on at any given moment.
Vinnie Quinn [no relation], our Fighter Weapons School graduate, took a look at my chart and just muttered “Schweinfurt.” [During World War II, the ball bearing plants located in that German city were a prime target of the American heavy bomber campaign. The Germans knew it was valuable and had placed unbelievably heavy concentrations of flak and fighter airfields in the area to protect it. The first such mission cost 60 bombers each with a crew of 10. It became known as ‘Black Thursday’ because of the horrendous losses.]
‘Victor’ Ballanco told me that the computer models estimated that we’d lose 30 percent of our force that first night. That gets your attention in a hurry as I briefed the 15 other guys in my Weasel mission.
From the beginning, fuel was a concern. The planning was tight the whole way in and out. I told everyone that we just did not have the gas to deal with any MiGs encountered or if anyone went down, there could be no RESCAP, we just had to leave whoever it was and press.
Stepping to my jet, I couldn’t get the APR-47 repeater scope on my dash to dim. It was so bright I couldn’t see the other instruments. Rather than go to another jet and risk missing the take-off, I taped my right flight glove over the scope and told Ken what I was doing. The -47 scope was my primary threat warning receiver, but I knew Ken could take care of us and there was no way I was going to miss this flight.
We met our tankers as fragged, about 100 miles south of the Iraqi border. The tracks were designed to be that far to keep the Iraqis guessing about our actions. Unfortunately, that’s a long drive when fuel is tight. To their credit, those tankers flew us much closer to the border than they were supposed to, thus letting us get as much gas into us as possible. I really appreciated that from them.
The whole time on the tanker and heading north, the flight kept expecting to hear the ‘abort’ code word, but since I knew that the first bombs had already dropped, I knew we were going.
We were in a line astern formation, with me at about 20 thousand feet and the rest of the jets stepped up in altitude into the high 20s. As we crossed the border, I remember saying to Howdy “This is it.”
At about that time, I caught some chatter between my # 2 and # 4 about air-to-air missiles. I wasn’t exactly sure what they were referring to, but I told them to “disregard and press.”
About then, I saw off my left wing a large, green explosion. Looking like liquid metal, the first thought I had was that it was a flare the Iraqis had set off to see us. Of course, it was really triple A. From then on, the fire was just constant.
At Nasiriyah, I saw a cloud which was unusual because the night was clear everywhere else. That cloud was actually the remnants of the 57mm AAA gun powder. I realized I had to go through that cloud and the intense, continuous barrage AAA.
I was scared, but what I remember most is that I didn’t want to **** up or make a mistake that cost somebody else. My throat was so tight it hurt; it was like my adenoids were growing. I said to Howdy that “here we are at the cradle of civilization and we’re gonna blow it up.”
As we got to the target area, I called “Buntari” which was the code for the Weasels that they were cleared to fire.
It was about then that Derek Knight, in my #4 saw a MiG taking off below us, but as briefed, we couldn’t do anything about it due to fuel.
We set up an orbit between the Euphrates River to the south and the Tigris to the north. In the orbit, we always had at least an element facing toward the target area and the threats.
Outside it is just mayhem. SAMs are going off unguided, just long streaks of flame, the triple A tracers with their greenish flashes and sparkles, I can see cars driving along roads, and the city lights are still on. I peeked underneath the glove hiding my APR-47 scope and it looked like a bowl of Cheerios had been spilled on the screen, so thick were the threats of SA-6s and -8s.
Howdy shot at the SA-8 which went down at the right time, but we don’t know for sure that we killed him. I forgot about the HARM’s exhaust and didn’t have the motors in mil[itary power – full power without using afterburner]. Using mil kept them from air starvation in the event of ingesting missile exhaust, but I just forgot until I had one flame out. I quickly got it re-lit and pressed on.
After the war, one of the F-111 drivers contacted Howdy and thanked him for taking out that SA-8 since he had to fly right at the SAMs position to loft his bombs. That was nice thing for the guy to do and made us feel good about the job.
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What an excellent thread! I've loved the F4 ever since I first saw one as a kid. Such an ugly yet beautiful aeroplane. And as someone else said, it looks ready to pick a fight even when it's sat on the ground! A classic indeed.
Many thanks to all those that have contributed their memories and anecdotes. It's made the quiet moments on my recent night shifts far more entertaining!
Phabulous Phantoms Phorever!
10W.
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I spent a large part of my formative years around the F4 fraternity and at the tender age of 17 I was very fortunate to be given the chance to fly in one with my father. A truly unforgettable experience that firmly cemented my ambition to become a pilot. I am now a 3000 hour GR4 QWI and even though I have thoroughly enjoyed every hour of my own career nothing will compare to charging around the North German plain looking for targets and having no earthly clue as to what was going on. No change there for a mud mover I hear you all say!! I wish my father were still alive to share some of his stories with this thread.
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There is a gathering of Phantom fans to occur at Holloman AFB, NM in October of this year.
From the registration list so far (yes, I am attending) I see participants from the UK and Australia as well as America.
Besides QF-4 ops tours and flights, there will be tours of the F-22 and Tornado operations as well.
Pity it's in Alamogordo and not, say, Vegas or San Diego.
From the registration list so far (yes, I am attending) I see participants from the UK and Australia as well as America.
Besides QF-4 ops tours and flights, there will be tours of the F-22 and Tornado operations as well.
Pity it's in Alamogordo and not, say, Vegas or San Diego.
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YouTube - F-4F Phantom Formation
Not my taste in music, but good to see the F-4 still in the sky courtesy of the Germans.
YouTube - F-4F Phantom dogfight
YouTube - F-4F Phantom at Goose Bay
Not my taste in music, but good to see the F-4 still in the sky courtesy of the Germans.
YouTube - F-4F Phantom dogfight
YouTube - F-4F Phantom at Goose Bay
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Archiving some old pictures I came across a few that even I'd forgotten. Here's a picture of the original trial on 56 of the "grey goose". One of MGs trials, this turned into "Air Defence Grey". In fact I have a pic of the radome still painted black somewhere.
Apologies for the quality. My box brownie wasn't that good in those days and 30 years haven't helped.
Apologies for the quality. My box brownie wasn't that good in those days and 30 years haven't helped.
Last edited by Geehovah; 25th Aug 2010 at 17:38.