F4 Phantom
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This is a gem of a thread !
From a slightly different perspective, I trained first as a fitter on Mr.Camm's finest.
He may have designed wonderful 'if it looks right it is right' aeroplanes, but he certainly didn't bother too much about the fitter's role, skinned knuckles and a rich vocabulary were essential items if working on a Camm design, especially the Hunter and to a slightly lesser extent Harrier 1 / AV-8A ( the Hawk is a bit more friendly due to its' role ).
One day I had the misfortune to be transiting through Brough after Harrier trials in Scotland ( I was a technical photographer long since ) and managed to get a look at some Phantoms being overhauled.
The thing which made a big impression on me was the row of opening panels along the spine, panels everywhere it seemed, designed for real not double-jointed people 'in the field'.
What with that and the similar approach - and actually designed cockpit, rather than the British approach of ' coating everything with adhesive, then firing the instruments all at once from a big gun ' on the Harrier II, I'm quite a fan of the U.S. Approach to combat aircraft.
From a slightly different perspective, I trained first as a fitter on Mr.Camm's finest.
He may have designed wonderful 'if it looks right it is right' aeroplanes, but he certainly didn't bother too much about the fitter's role, skinned knuckles and a rich vocabulary were essential items if working on a Camm design, especially the Hunter and to a slightly lesser extent Harrier 1 / AV-8A ( the Hawk is a bit more friendly due to its' role ).
One day I had the misfortune to be transiting through Brough after Harrier trials in Scotland ( I was a technical photographer long since ) and managed to get a look at some Phantoms being overhauled.
The thing which made a big impression on me was the row of opening panels along the spine, panels everywhere it seemed, designed for real not double-jointed people 'in the field'.
What with that and the similar approach - and actually designed cockpit, rather than the British approach of ' coating everything with adhesive, then firing the instruments all at once from a big gun ' on the Harrier II, I'm quite a fan of the U.S. Approach to combat aircraft.
Double Zero,
Ah, but what you failed to spot is that every access panel was a stressed panel. Which means they had hundreds of 'hi-torq' screws per panel - 90% of which had to be drilled out! A sharp drill bit and a good set of 'easy-outs' were the Riggers' friends!
Happy days!
Ah, but what you failed to spot is that every access panel was a stressed panel. Which means they had hundreds of 'hi-torq' screws per panel - 90% of which had to be drilled out! A sharp drill bit and a good set of 'easy-outs' were the Riggers' friends!
Happy days!
As a pilot who overstressed one of the Crows' aircraft at Wattisham in the early 80s discovered when he was 'invited' to assist the gingers with removing and replacing the necessary panels for the overstress check!
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And of course the most famous of them all "The Raspberry Ripple". This scheme only lasted a few weeks after the event. What most people didnt know at the time was there were two of them XV486 and XV424, the latter taking the main event. The beautifully hand-painted RAF crest on the intake ramp didn't survive first contact.
Imagine my shame carrying out LLOLPIs in LFA7 against a formation of Buccaneers:
"Who's a Pretty Boy Then?" on Guard
Imagine my shame carrying out LLOLPIs in LFA7 against a formation of Buccaneers:
"Who's a Pretty Boy Then?" on Guard
Last edited by Geehovah; 20th Aug 2010 at 10:54.
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Dark Helmet
I take your point, may have noticed they were stressed panels at the time, but rosy memory vision blotted that out...whoever called those things 'high torque' fasteners ought to be shot !
Once I was waiting to photograph a new mark of export Hawk's cockpits for pilot briefing, 2 apprentices were finishing off the floor ramps; suddenly there was a horrible graunching sound as a hi-torque fastener met its' maker - the guilty party called to his chum in the other cockpit, " Christ are we in trouble now ! " the quick reply was "What do you mean 'we' ? !
Beagle
I know the feeling, we were running one of the early FRS2 ( as then) trials, due to a union dispute we had no groundcrew, so were running on 'in the field' rules; the service T.P. had been told only to use water injection in emergency.
As he returned from his range sortie, he was told by the tower there was a bunch of schoolgirls visiting...and went into the hover routine complete with a bow to the adoring audience.
The Flight Test engineer clapped his hand to his forehead, and the pilot ended up with an even more accurate idea of what 50 gallons of distilled water feels like to lift...
I take your point, may have noticed they were stressed panels at the time, but rosy memory vision blotted that out...whoever called those things 'high torque' fasteners ought to be shot !
Once I was waiting to photograph a new mark of export Hawk's cockpits for pilot briefing, 2 apprentices were finishing off the floor ramps; suddenly there was a horrible graunching sound as a hi-torque fastener met its' maker - the guilty party called to his chum in the other cockpit, " Christ are we in trouble now ! " the quick reply was "What do you mean 'we' ? !
Beagle
I know the feeling, we were running one of the early FRS2 ( as then) trials, due to a union dispute we had no groundcrew, so were running on 'in the field' rules; the service T.P. had been told only to use water injection in emergency.
As he returned from his range sortie, he was told by the tower there was a bunch of schoolgirls visiting...and went into the hover routine complete with a bow to the adoring audience.
The Flight Test engineer clapped his hand to his forehead, and the pilot ended up with an even more accurate idea of what 50 gallons of distilled water feels like to lift...
Tiger helmet
Talking of 'dark helmets' and Phantoms, over on the 74 Sqn association's website, there's a rather fetching 'Tiger' lid up for grabs, apparently a Gentex model from the F4J days.
Anyone here ever wear one of these? Comfy?
Anyone here ever wear one of these? Comfy?
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Caught the tail end of the Phantom era at Leu and thoroughly enjoyed it. APC with a trip flown by OC43. Sick as a dog I was and compounded it by trying to hide the puke bag in my speed jeans. As a squipper I really should have known better!
Spent many a cold wet night sat on the end of runway waiting to pick up brake chutes. Was never overly impressed by the wags who pointed the chutes at us then released them with a blip of the throttles. Those shackles were bloody lethal!
Good times though. Of the four years I spent on 43 the Phantom months were some of the most memorable (Op granby excepted)
Spent many a cold wet night sat on the end of runway waiting to pick up brake chutes. Was never overly impressed by the wags who pointed the chutes at us then released them with a blip of the throttles. Those shackles were bloody lethal!
Good times though. Of the four years I spent on 43 the Phantom months were some of the most memorable (Op granby excepted)
As a mere lad of 15 in 1965 at the Gaydon BoB Saturday I stood in awe of a pair of Phantoms from -I think - Alconbury. Of all the things about them my abiding memory is the amount of stencils that they were covered in.
Lying in my bed the next morning - probably saying hello to Mrs. Hand and her five lovely daughters - what sounded like a huge bomb going off above 40 Southam Crescent followed by a huu-uuge amount of noise had me leaping out of me pit and straining up at the sky.
It was the Phantoms heading home. Pa (A/ATC) was impressed when he got home, "Christ those Phantoms can shift" was his comment.
Whenever I see a piccy of one parked from the front three-quarter view it always looks like something out of Star Wars - so does a Victor for that matter.
Lying in my bed the next morning - probably saying hello to Mrs. Hand and her five lovely daughters - what sounded like a huge bomb going off above 40 Southam Crescent followed by a huu-uuge amount of noise had me leaping out of me pit and straining up at the sky.
It was the Phantoms heading home. Pa (A/ATC) was impressed when he got home, "Christ those Phantoms can shift" was his comment.
Whenever I see a piccy of one parked from the front three-quarter view it always looks like something out of Star Wars - so does a Victor for that matter.
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New here, but found this thread today. What memories.
Newly arrived LAC straight from training, and my first job on the line top up the gasses on the rasperry ripple,XV424 seem to remember 56(F) call sign "Delta", and long night polishing her at cease flying. 5 happy years, and many great memoires, of the tomb. Queen of the skies!!
Newly arrived LAC straight from training, and my first job on the line top up the gasses on the rasperry ripple,XV424 seem to remember 56(F) call sign "Delta", and long night polishing her at cease flying. 5 happy years, and many great memoires, of the tomb. Queen of the skies!!
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Yes, and what a weapons system in its' day.
Will always remember the reaction of the crowd at a firepower demo in Epi Bay - the pair of polystyrene rafts had already been attacked by Buccs with BL755 when we went down the dive as a pair in line abreast each firing 300 rounds of 23mm ball from the SUU-23. 6000 rounds per minute each picked both rafts out of the water, spun them around and left little bits floating.
Also the Skywatch demo for the BBC on Salisbury Plain when our leader loosed off a long burst into the MT coach primed with petrol.
The odd Skyflash firing off a QRA scramble proved quite reassuring too - in those days we had a weapons system that worked almost straight out of the box. Never catch on!
Will always remember the reaction of the crowd at a firepower demo in Epi Bay - the pair of polystyrene rafts had already been attacked by Buccs with BL755 when we went down the dive as a pair in line abreast each firing 300 rounds of 23mm ball from the SUU-23. 6000 rounds per minute each picked both rafts out of the water, spun them around and left little bits floating.
Also the Skywatch demo for the BBC on Salisbury Plain when our leader loosed off a long burst into the MT coach primed with petrol.
The odd Skyflash firing off a QRA scramble proved quite reassuring too - in those days we had a weapons system that worked almost straight out of the box. Never catch on!
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End of the F4. The Airborne Handover.
For any F4 fans here's a copy of a video I put together recently.
If anyone was involved in the F3/F4 Handover sortie, please let me know and I'll drop you a copy (without the audio glitch).
Anyone not involved, feel free to drop a few £ to Help For Heroes if you decide to download it!
UK Tornado F3 Videos :: 56Handover.mp4 video by DeeGee - Photobucket
If anyone was involved in the F3/F4 Handover sortie, please let me know and I'll drop you a copy (without the audio glitch).
Anyone not involved, feel free to drop a few £ to Help For Heroes if you decide to download it!
UK Tornado F3 Videos :: 56Handover.mp4 video by DeeGee - Photobucket
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Try Spook Beattie on the Tremblers FB page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/35158756023/
BLC Bleed Air
At the risk of being called a spotter, and wearing my shabbiest anorak, here we go. Yes, the Spey-engined FGR2 could use both 7th and 12th stage air for boundary layer control. However, if I recall correctly, the on-speed was only 3 kts slower using both, and it casued the TGT to rise a few degrees thus adding wear and tear on the engines. So, a Bleed Control Switch was used in the Isolate position to select 7th stage air only. I'm a little hazy here in that it could have been 12th stage only, but I think I'm right in saying 7th.
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12th stage bleed made flying a formation approach on the wing interesting, in that power changes not only made the usual fwd/aft movement, but also up and down, as BLC induced lift changed.
Tailspin Turtle...
Must admit it's going back a long time and my memory might be playing tricks but I have the hazy recollection that the F-4Ms (FGR 2s) retained the feature but with the option to switch it off or manually overriding it.
the bleed source would switch back and forth, resulting in "uncommanded thrust changes in condition PA". It was apparently solved by eliminating the automatic switching feature.
Must admit it's going back a long time and my memory might be playing tricks but I have the hazy recollection that the F-4Ms (FGR 2s) retained the feature but with the option to switch it off or manually overriding it.
With the FGR2 if you found yourself a bit tight on the finals turn I found that switching to 12th stage could tuck you in nicely thus avoiding the embarrassment of flying through the centreline.