What would you cut?
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What would you cut?
Put yourself in the position, you are in charge; you have been told to make some savings, what would you do? Which Sqns would you get rid of? What equipment would you draw down? What posts would you get rid of? Do we really need all the senior officers? Can we amalgamate some sqns and still keep the same capability? It's for you to decide!!!
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Do one or two things well. Let our partners do what they can do.
So, that leaves the Germans to operate the Typhoon. As they don't fly outside German there will be no need for tankers so we can cancel our tanker buy too.
Let the Italians use the Tornados, they are nearer the action. They might need tankers but then that would allow them to get even nearer so maybe tankers arent need there either.
Let the French do the AWAC bit. We might be able to sell our E3.
Keep the cabs and trucks. Very handy for moving the brown jobs around.
Oh and Nimrod.
Seriously, do we need three different bombers?
So, that leaves the Germans to operate the Typhoon. As they don't fly outside German there will be no need for tankers so we can cancel our tanker buy too.
Let the Italians use the Tornados, they are nearer the action. They might need tankers but then that would allow them to get even nearer so maybe tankers arent need there either.
Let the French do the AWAC bit. We might be able to sell our E3.
Keep the cabs and trucks. Very handy for moving the brown jobs around.
Oh and Nimrod.
Seriously, do we need three different bombers?
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You would go a long way to saving huge sums of money if you worked on the simple plan of each service doing what it does best
Navy sails boats
Army drives tanks and shoots guns
Airforce fly all the aircraft
Us crabs gave up driving boats and tanks years ago as we were crap at it and it's about time you blue and brown jobs realised your shortcomings and handed all your toys back to their rightful owners so they can be utilised correctly
Now imagine how much dosh that would save
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
Navy sails boats
Army drives tanks and shoots guns
Airforce fly all the aircraft
Us crabs gave up driving boats and tanks years ago as we were crap at it and it's about time you blue and brown jobs realised your shortcomings and handed all your toys back to their rightful owners so they can be utilised correctly
Now imagine how much dosh that would save
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
What would I bin?
SSBNs. Who exactly are they deterring? How exactly do they credibly deter assymetric threats? Is there any other sort of threat, now?
Carriers. Even the most optimistic cost them at £5Bn. That would be 200 Gripens or F-16s.
JSF. Without carriers we could have a cheaper, more effective, less bloated FJ to replace OS/Recce Harriers and Jaguars, which could fulfil most of the FOA requirement and do some limited AD.
Heavy armour.
SSBNs. Who exactly are they deterring? How exactly do they credibly deter assymetric threats? Is there any other sort of threat, now?
Carriers. Even the most optimistic cost them at £5Bn. That would be 200 Gripens or F-16s.
JSF. Without carriers we could have a cheaper, more effective, less bloated FJ to replace OS/Recce Harriers and Jaguars, which could fulfil most of the FOA requirement and do some limited AD.
Heavy armour.
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Support to Falklands could be significantly reduced.
Red Arrows. In a shrinking Service, why would we need such massive recruiting power?
32 Sqn?
Close Scampton (please close Scampton ... before I have to go there!).
Do I detect a plan to disestablish the RAF Regt in a previous post (each do what they are good at?).
Why do we have 2 Commands?
Get rid of IIP, NVQ and EO initiatives that have increased workloads without significantly improving capability, and must be costing a fortune to implement.
Close all Handbrake Houses!
Disestablish RAF Plods.
Red Arrows. In a shrinking Service, why would we need such massive recruiting power?
32 Sqn?
Close Scampton (please close Scampton ... before I have to go there!).
Do I detect a plan to disestablish the RAF Regt in a previous post (each do what they are good at?).
Why do we have 2 Commands?
Get rid of IIP, NVQ and EO initiatives that have increased workloads without significantly improving capability, and must be costing a fortune to implement.
Close all Handbrake Houses!
Disestablish RAF Plods.
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SirTopp,
Rant Mode Sel - 'XMT'
Absolutely 110% agree about binning IIP, NVQ and EO. What an utter utter utter load of wasted energy and time (IMHO). Also, I know a sensible degree of H&S is needed, but the things I have seen: getting back from a long and sporadically interesting mission in the Gulf to be refused entry to the Sqn building because the wires from the phones to the wall sockets were assessed as 'a trip hazard'!!!! A quick reality check resolved that one - but it did actually really happen - gobsmacking. Who are these people who actually drive this IIP, NVQ EO stuff? I have never met one - or perhaps I have but they have been too ashamed to admit it.
Rant Mode Sel - 'Stby'
MT
Rant Mode Sel - 'XMT'
Absolutely 110% agree about binning IIP, NVQ and EO. What an utter utter utter load of wasted energy and time (IMHO). Also, I know a sensible degree of H&S is needed, but the things I have seen: getting back from a long and sporadically interesting mission in the Gulf to be refused entry to the Sqn building because the wires from the phones to the wall sockets were assessed as 'a trip hazard'!!!! A quick reality check resolved that one - but it did actually really happen - gobsmacking. Who are these people who actually drive this IIP, NVQ EO stuff? I have never met one - or perhaps I have but they have been too ashamed to admit it.
Rant Mode Sel - 'Stby'
MT
Cut Senior Officers!!
Back in the days when the RAF was 90,000 strong I read an articule by some guy about the number of senior officers it had. He had done his research, and looked up the RAF lists for 1946 (you can probably still find one in a large decent public library) and 198? (sorry, can't remember). In 1946, just after the end of WWII, the RAF had a strength of approx 1,000,000!! Anyway this chap produced a table of RAF senior officers, with columns for 1 star, 2 star, 3 star etc, comparing the numbers in 1946 with those in 198?. Over that period, with a decrease in strength from 1,000,000 to 90,000 the number of senior officers had only decreased by about 20%!! It might be interesting to do a similar comparison today.
Going further down the scale in rank, I believe we have enough Sqn Ldr engineers to allocate one to every aircraft engine in the RAF!! No doubt there are other examples, and the RAF is not alone, I believe a frequent quote is that the Navy has more Admirals (I am not having a pop at the Navy, and I do realise the term 'Admiral' covers several ranks!!) than ships!!
Again, several years ago I remember reading that the Israeli Air Force has 700 combat (and I mean COMBAT) aircraft, and was run by a 2 star!!
My point is we are rank top heavy, but when anybody talks about changing the system, it is left to the senior officers to make the decisions!! I am sure they are going to make themselves redundant - NOT!! Almost as bad as getting the politicians to police/regulate themselves!!
Back in the days when the RAF was 90,000 strong I read an articule by some guy about the number of senior officers it had. He had done his research, and looked up the RAF lists for 1946 (you can probably still find one in a large decent public library) and 198? (sorry, can't remember). In 1946, just after the end of WWII, the RAF had a strength of approx 1,000,000!! Anyway this chap produced a table of RAF senior officers, with columns for 1 star, 2 star, 3 star etc, comparing the numbers in 1946 with those in 198?. Over that period, with a decrease in strength from 1,000,000 to 90,000 the number of senior officers had only decreased by about 20%!! It might be interesting to do a similar comparison today.
Going further down the scale in rank, I believe we have enough Sqn Ldr engineers to allocate one to every aircraft engine in the RAF!! No doubt there are other examples, and the RAF is not alone, I believe a frequent quote is that the Navy has more Admirals (I am not having a pop at the Navy, and I do realise the term 'Admiral' covers several ranks!!) than ships!!
Again, several years ago I remember reading that the Israeli Air Force has 700 combat (and I mean COMBAT) aircraft, and was run by a 2 star!!
My point is we are rank top heavy, but when anybody talks about changing the system, it is left to the senior officers to make the decisions!! I am sure they are going to make themselves redundant - NOT!! Almost as bad as getting the politicians to police/regulate themselves!!
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You haven't read Cecil's book yet then Biggus?
Parkinson's " The Law", although meant to be humourous, is nonetheless a revelation of truth. His mathematical formula for bureaucratic growth, initially calculated from comparison of Nelson's navy with the navy of the fifties, has demonstrated remarkable accuracy in predictions for all organizations at all times. He should have won the Nobel prize for his work.
Parkinson's " The Law", although meant to be humourous, is nonetheless a revelation of truth. His mathematical formula for bureaucratic growth, initially calculated from comparison of Nelson's navy with the navy of the fifties, has demonstrated remarkable accuracy in predictions for all organizations at all times. He should have won the Nobel prize for his work.
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Why not start with the REMFs and other hangers on?
I'd begin with Shrivenham, £94m for a big building to house a few computers, a couple of libraries and a few hundred individuals completing courses they have no interest in but feel they need to do if they want a career...........
Rant over.
I'd begin with Shrivenham, £94m for a big building to house a few computers, a couple of libraries and a few hundred individuals completing courses they have no interest in but feel they need to do if they want a career...........
Rant over.
Kinloss. Bye! Put the ac at Waddo and if needed to deploy north to cover the GIUK gap or other choice tasks, deploy them to Lossie.
Church Fenton, Topcliffe. Bye!
Colt (it pains me deeply to say it) Bye. Move the Jags somewhere for the last couple of years of its life. I have heard Leeming mentioned quite seriously!
Wittering? Surely there's room at Cottesmore??
MPA needs to be downsized.
SSBNs definately. Even if we do get hit by a terrorist nuke or bio/chem attack, who are we going to strike back at?
Aircrew (senior) who are never going to get anywhere near a cockpit again stopped flying pay. Not wishing to start this argument again but it just seems to make common sense (ducks to receive barrage).
IIP, EO, NVQ, H&S etc!
Bleeting whingers who stub their toe on their desk and demand compensation for their pain, suffering, mental anguish and piles.
Huge Eng & Logs command structure. Wyton, Abbeywood etc etc. Uhhh, what's wrong with having it all in one place guys?
I think that's about it for now!
Church Fenton, Topcliffe. Bye!
Colt (it pains me deeply to say it) Bye. Move the Jags somewhere for the last couple of years of its life. I have heard Leeming mentioned quite seriously!
Wittering? Surely there's room at Cottesmore??
MPA needs to be downsized.
SSBNs definately. Even if we do get hit by a terrorist nuke or bio/chem attack, who are we going to strike back at?
Aircrew (senior) who are never going to get anywhere near a cockpit again stopped flying pay. Not wishing to start this argument again but it just seems to make common sense (ducks to receive barrage).
IIP, EO, NVQ, H&S etc!
Bleeting whingers who stub their toe on their desk and demand compensation for their pain, suffering, mental anguish and piles.
Huge Eng & Logs command structure. Wyton, Abbeywood etc etc. Uhhh, what's wrong with having it all in one place guys?
I think that's about it for now!
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Cuts
Get rid of 1 2 and 3 Groups and all their staff and merge their roles into HQSTC.
Get the army to stop moving around the world with their own precious collection of tanks and vehicles and introduce the concept of handing over the inventories to the Brigade (or whatever) that is replacing them. This would save a fortune on hiring container ships to ferry the 3rd Foot and Mouths personal land rovers to Iraq and back.
Cancel the carrier programmes. Why on earth do we need 2 enormous carriers when we have already conceded that we won't go to war without the Americans again.
Get rid of the Apaches (chosen with all the logic of a small boy in a toy shop picking the most expensive toy).
Stop wasting money on new uniforms (primarily for ORs) and spend the money on improving accommodation.
Stop producing career managements leaflets, air power CDs, equal opportunity flyers, mission statement boards and spend the money on air power instead.
Merge the RAF Police and RAF Regiment into one Force Protection unit
Merge the flt ops branch with....well, anything really.
Erm
Pauses for breath
Get the army to stop moving around the world with their own precious collection of tanks and vehicles and introduce the concept of handing over the inventories to the Brigade (or whatever) that is replacing them. This would save a fortune on hiring container ships to ferry the 3rd Foot and Mouths personal land rovers to Iraq and back.
Cancel the carrier programmes. Why on earth do we need 2 enormous carriers when we have already conceded that we won't go to war without the Americans again.
Get rid of the Apaches (chosen with all the logic of a small boy in a toy shop picking the most expensive toy).
Stop wasting money on new uniforms (primarily for ORs) and spend the money on improving accommodation.
Stop producing career managements leaflets, air power CDs, equal opportunity flyers, mission statement boards and spend the money on air power instead.
Merge the RAF Police and RAF Regiment into one Force Protection unit
Merge the flt ops branch with....well, anything really.
Erm
Pauses for breath
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Cutting NVQs out would save......not very much as the costs of delivery etc are met by drawing down funds from the Government's education department which is separte and totally different from the MoD's budget. Not doing NVQs would mean this money cannot be gained.
If anything cutting out NVQs would mean that station budgets would have to increase because the wages of the NVQ staff are met from Innsworth via this funding.
What do they achieve - the chance for the lowly paid airman to jump a year in his increments.
BTW if you are an NVQ assessor in the work place - you can now be paid around £45 per unit you sign off.
If anything cutting out NVQs would mean that station budgets would have to increase because the wages of the NVQ staff are met from Innsworth via this funding.
What do they achieve - the chance for the lowly paid airman to jump a year in his increments.
BTW if you are an NVQ assessor in the work place - you can now be paid around £45 per unit you sign off.
All three services could operate under one large Logistical roof in terms of kit storage and supply. That would save millions and why not co-locate the lot too?
Axe the AAC and give that capability to the RAF.
RAF Police? What's the point? "you....get yor' beret on son" Cheers munter!!
RAF REGT. Bye, adios and close the door behind you. Just get an army unit (Dads) to defend the airfields in time of war.
Admin staff..see ya .... contract it all out civi on lower wages.
MTMF bye....civi..
Jags..se ya...Nimrod all variants bye....stick the MAR. role equip. on the C130. Don't see many Nimrods doing the fisheries patrol down south do we??
Tornado F3... bye now the sooner the better. Stop looking for a new job with the ALARM thing. Face it you are not needed. Dog fights are for idiots who missed with their missiles!!
VC10 / Tristar.. see ya... Brasnon can do your job.
Merlin....I mean and the point of that Helo is????? See ya more CH47's bought with the cash from their sale.
Relocate the RAF to ten major stations or even co-locate with other service units.. You'd save millions......
Rant over!!h
Axe the AAC and give that capability to the RAF.
RAF Police? What's the point? "you....get yor' beret on son" Cheers munter!!
RAF REGT. Bye, adios and close the door behind you. Just get an army unit (Dads) to defend the airfields in time of war.
Admin staff..see ya .... contract it all out civi on lower wages.
MTMF bye....civi..
Jags..se ya...Nimrod all variants bye....stick the MAR. role equip. on the C130. Don't see many Nimrods doing the fisheries patrol down south do we??
Tornado F3... bye now the sooner the better. Stop looking for a new job with the ALARM thing. Face it you are not needed. Dog fights are for idiots who missed with their missiles!!
VC10 / Tristar.. see ya... Brasnon can do your job.
Merlin....I mean and the point of that Helo is????? See ya more CH47's bought with the cash from their sale.
Relocate the RAF to ten major stations or even co-locate with other service units.. You'd save millions......
Rant over!!h
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Relocate the RAF to ten major stations or even co-locate with other service units.. You'd save millions......
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Grim,
Disposal of RAF Plod is particularly attractive. I wonder if a certain (acting) Corporal has given up looking for me under the 30 year rule ?
Nice one.
E5
Disposal of RAF Plod is particularly attractive. I wonder if a certain (acting) Corporal has given up looking for me under the 30 year rule ?
Nice one.
E5
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Perhaps we might as well put the "Mob" out of its collective misery. Please someone tell us where and when will be the final, terminal pi$$-up to end all pi$$-ups. Then we might stagger along to St Clem's and pray for the future of the nation - and laugh our cox off at the subsequent antics of the grunts and fisheads. 
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It isn't the other Sqn/Stn/Type/Role/Branch/Service that should be getting our attention here. Let's look at the thousands and thousands of Civil Servants that are paid for by the defence budget. The procurement lot would be a good start- billions spent out of the defence budget and just one debacle after another. But I'm sure Sir Humphrey will out manoeuvre General Melchett where the battle really counts - in Whitehall.
Deliverance....
F3 was a little too far I do admit.......100Sqn do a good job of shooting us down with gun kills all the time!!!! They could replace them I'm sure??!!
I must concur with Brain Potter. The Civil service must surely be axed. Biggest waste of money this side of William Hill's. Just look at the cost of Abbeywood etc. They even go on courses for PC/Racial etc crap that they then festoon upon us!!
They'd all make good Fig.11 targets for the live shootin' range!!
F3 was a little too far I do admit.......100Sqn do a good job of shooting us down with gun kills all the time!!!! They could replace them I'm sure??!!
I must concur with Brain Potter. The Civil service must surely be axed. Biggest waste of money this side of William Hill's. Just look at the cost of Abbeywood etc. They even go on courses for PC/Racial etc crap that they then festoon upon us!!
They'd all make good Fig.11 targets for the live shootin' range!!