Buccaneer Low level
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Nearly 24 hrs since I opened my heart and declared a youthful exurberance-bloody hell,how do you spell those words?- and there's no ex Bucc man or woman to add to the tales? How sad... it looks like the Vulcan thread really does have all the stories.
I could talk about the "208 Penetrate" T-shirts which attracted much attention on the Strip in Las Vegas,or the even more controversial "I wired Las Vegas" T-shirts but there are many out there better qualified to tell the story than me.
Then of course there's the Hereford Flypast, featuring the Severn Bridge; the undetected (but exercise illegal) low level attack of the fleet which was repeated by the Argies a few years later; and countless stories of the 237 OCU attempts to stifle real aircrew with real experiences from contributing real value to the OCU version of "training ".
OK,time for bed-I'm getting old.
I could talk about the "208 Penetrate" T-shirts which attracted much attention on the Strip in Las Vegas,or the even more controversial "I wired Las Vegas" T-shirts but there are many out there better qualified to tell the story than me.
Then of course there's the Hereford Flypast, featuring the Severn Bridge; the undetected (but exercise illegal) low level attack of the fleet which was repeated by the Argies a few years later; and countless stories of the 237 OCU attempts to stifle real aircrew with real experiences from contributing real value to the OCU version of "training ".
OK,time for bed-I'm getting old.
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Roghead
Don't despair - remember, we were quite a shy lot really, and it took a lot to spur us. Have patience my son - let me finish my beer first. Oh - and just thank your lucky stars that you didn't do a stint at HQ1 Gp Bawtry - to live and work in the midst of all those tin triangle tossers was akin to living and working in the aircrew feeder. But some of them were actually quite nice.
I'll browse my Section5 and summon up thoughts of Gib, the film, AR firings, Denmark, etc etc. But you're right, there are heaps of tales out there to be told by the brethren. Some were told at the last Bucc Blitz - but I'm unable to recall them for some reason. Mustn't let the flat iron brigade prevail --
Don't despair - remember, we were quite a shy lot really, and it took a lot to spur us. Have patience my son - let me finish my beer first. Oh - and just thank your lucky stars that you didn't do a stint at HQ1 Gp Bawtry - to live and work in the midst of all those tin triangle tossers was akin to living and working in the aircrew feeder. But some of them were actually quite nice.
I'll browse my Section5 and summon up thoughts of Gib, the film, AR firings, Denmark, etc etc. But you're right, there are heaps of tales out there to be told by the brethren. Some were told at the last Bucc Blitz - but I'm unable to recall them for some reason. Mustn't let the flat iron brigade prevail --
Join Date: Jan 2004
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Low-level Speedster
I thought the original question was from an interested enthusiast who had seen many a Bucc below him as he was cycling the A5 pass! Not a forum for sad old soaks, like me, who flew the Bucc at warpsnot (well subsonic warpsnot) as low as you could go.
If you are an old soak who has flown the Bucc and are not a member, but would like to be, of the now 10-year established Bucc Aircrew Association then drop me a PM identifying yourself and your "Bucc History" and I will advise the Membership Secretary. The BAA provides its very own forums electronically and in paper and bar room form for old soaks to exchange the friendly banter and apochryphal tales that made us such a formidable force in both the air and the social scene in days gone by.
Now. In answer to the original question, I quote from my retained copy of AP-101B-1202-14A Flight Reference Cards Buccaneer S Mk2A and 2B Issue No 5 August 1980 (AL No 3 May 1983).
Maximum Airspeeds
Clean: 580 kt IAS or 0.95M
Bomb Door Tank (locked open): 580 kt IAS or 0.9M (or store limit)
(rotation): 550 kt IAS or 0.85M
Max Accelerations (Indicated G)
Up to 44000lb AUW (below 0.88M) -3.1 to +6.0G
(at 0.95M) -2.75 to +4.4G
G linearly decreasing to
55000 to 59000lb AUW (below 0.88M) -2.1 to +4.0G
(at 0.95M) -2.0 to +3.0G
With stores (eg 1000lb bombs) on the pylons:
Max Airspeed (Mk2A): 560 kt IAS or 0.87M or 0.9M below 400 kts
The Mk2B Mach No was reduced by .02M because of its different shaped pylons.
So, there you have it - as I stated earlier "subsonic warpsnot" as low as you would dare to go and certainly below 50 ft (not prepared to commit in writing to anything else) over the 'oggin.
The great advantage, of course, was the bomb bay which unlike the Tornado (flown both) allowed the Bucc to cruise to the target at high speed and at a significantly reduced and very economic fuel rate!
Weapons delivery speeds - are for another day!!
Ah, the A5 Pass, the only place in Britain where you could fly legally at 250' MSD and still look up at the grockles pulling their caravans to the Welsh coast!!!
If you want to join us and flew the Bucc then send me a PM!
One very old soak now going back to his staff work!!!!
If you are an old soak who has flown the Bucc and are not a member, but would like to be, of the now 10-year established Bucc Aircrew Association then drop me a PM identifying yourself and your "Bucc History" and I will advise the Membership Secretary. The BAA provides its very own forums electronically and in paper and bar room form for old soaks to exchange the friendly banter and apochryphal tales that made us such a formidable force in both the air and the social scene in days gone by.
Now. In answer to the original question, I quote from my retained copy of AP-101B-1202-14A Flight Reference Cards Buccaneer S Mk2A and 2B Issue No 5 August 1980 (AL No 3 May 1983).
Maximum Airspeeds
Clean: 580 kt IAS or 0.95M
Bomb Door Tank (locked open): 580 kt IAS or 0.9M (or store limit)
(rotation): 550 kt IAS or 0.85M
Max Accelerations (Indicated G)
Up to 44000lb AUW (below 0.88M) -3.1 to +6.0G
(at 0.95M) -2.75 to +4.4G
G linearly decreasing to
55000 to 59000lb AUW (below 0.88M) -2.1 to +4.0G
(at 0.95M) -2.0 to +3.0G
With stores (eg 1000lb bombs) on the pylons:
Max Airspeed (Mk2A): 560 kt IAS or 0.87M or 0.9M below 400 kts
The Mk2B Mach No was reduced by .02M because of its different shaped pylons.
So, there you have it - as I stated earlier "subsonic warpsnot" as low as you would dare to go and certainly below 50 ft (not prepared to commit in writing to anything else) over the 'oggin.
The great advantage, of course, was the bomb bay which unlike the Tornado (flown both) allowed the Bucc to cruise to the target at high speed and at a significantly reduced and very economic fuel rate!
Weapons delivery speeds - are for another day!!
Ah, the A5 Pass, the only place in Britain where you could fly legally at 250' MSD and still look up at the grockles pulling their caravans to the Welsh coast!!!
If you want to join us and flew the Bucc then send me a PM!
One very old soak now going back to his staff work!!!!
Join Date: Jul 2003
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Shortlived Bucc
The earlier post about XV351 that took the cable and barrier at Karup has been updated with b&w photos of the event and recovery.
http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/sho...874#post236874
The aft part of the canopy is broken, so did the nav eject through it? And the pilot then jettison it, before he left walking/running down the right wing?
As I remember, Buccaneers more often deployed to Aalborg (much better nightlife than Karup, which is in the middle of nowhere).
Two callsigns come to mind "Jackal" and "Wombat".
Best regards
http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/sho...874#post236874
The aft part of the canopy is broken, so did the nav eject through it? And the pilot then jettison it, before he left walking/running down the right wing?
As I remember, Buccaneers more often deployed to Aalborg (much better nightlife than Karup, which is in the middle of nowhere).
Two callsigns come to mind "Jackal" and "Wombat".
Best regards
Last edited by normally left blank; 12th Jan 2004 at 00:45.
We were always briefed that the navigator should eject if a barrier (not cable) engagement was likely as there was a danger of the barrier top cable catching the AR probe and forcing it through the navigtor's canopy. Also, if memory serves, it was safer just to go rather than call "Eject, eject" as that would avoid the possibility of the second crew member getting a face full of Buccanneer canopy? Hence the navigator would make his own decision........
It's only just getting airborne, surely?
Can't quite tell for sure, but the mainplane flaps and ailerons appear to be slightly drooped and the tailplane flap slightly raised - just on the way to fully in from 15-10-10?
Can't quite tell for sure, but the mainplane flaps and ailerons appear to be slightly drooped and the tailplane flap slightly raised - just on the way to fully in from 15-10-10?
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Buccaneer rolled off Ark Royal
In 1987 I was waiting at RAF Brüggen, 31 Sqn, for a Danish C-130 to be fixed. We were watching videos (No, not that kind 
) and I remember a short one about how important it was to tie aircraft down properly. In glorious colour the tie downs snapped and a Buccaneer went to Davey Jones locker.
In Ian Allan Aircraft Illustrated Special, Peter R. Foster, 1987, XT269 is mentioned:
"Delivered 26/4/65 to RN and was lost when it rolled off the side of HMS Ark Royal at sea on 15/2/72 and sank."
Was that the actual event, that was turned into an - expensive - training film?
Best regards
) and I remember a short one about how important it was to tie aircraft down properly. In glorious colour the tie downs snapped and a Buccaneer went to Davey Jones locker. In Ian Allan Aircraft Illustrated Special, Peter R. Foster, 1987, XT269 is mentioned:
"Delivered 26/4/65 to RN and was lost when it rolled off the side of HMS Ark Royal at sea on 15/2/72 and sank."
Was that the actual event, that was turned into an - expensive - training film?
Best regards
Was the Bucc in the film painted white? XN954, an S1 (thank you, Tim Laming for refreshing my memory...) was pitched over the side of Ark Royal in April 1974 for a safety film (the S1 being out of service by that point, of course).
I haven't seen said film in toto, but have seen a white painted Bucc going over the side of Ark right at the end of the FAA museum's 'Carrier' Exhibit - I'm assuming that this is taken from the safety film, and making the further assumption that there is only one film of a Bucc going backwards off the deck!
I haven't seen said film in toto, but have seen a white painted Bucc going over the side of Ark right at the end of the FAA museum's 'Carrier' Exhibit - I'm assuming that this is taken from the safety film, and making the further assumption that there is only one film of a Bucc going backwards off the deck!
Beagle
My God Mr Beags,
Have you flown EVERY RAF fast jet type in the past 30 year inventory ??
What did you do (or didn't you) to get kicked from squadron to squadron?
Have you flown EVERY RAF fast jet type in the past 30 year inventory ??
What did you do (or didn't you) to get kicked from squadron to squadron?
Just composed a full reply, pressed send and got that increasingly familiar 'server too busy' page. Reply lost in cyberspace.... 
So, to summarise:
Chipmunk/JP/Gnat/Hunter. Posted to 58 Sqn, sqn disbanded a few weeks later. Posted to Buccs, top of student bombing ladder and weapons theory (100%), then chopped for lack of progress. JP ref, then Vulcan on 35 Sqn. Did Bombing comp in USA, selected for captaincy but asked to go back to fast jets. JP ref, then Hawk at Chiv (won best weapons trophy), then Phantoms. 500 hours and Operational, but not up to their requirements. Yet another ref course, this time on the worthless Jetstream. Then VC10 course, then VC10K on 101 Sqn. Co-pilot, then captain, then IRE before being sent to CFS. Won Bulldog aeros trophy, then off to UAS for 3 years with 6 months off as VC10K captain in GW1. Back to UAS, did A2, then posted back to VC10. Right place, right time - asked to join OCU staff. Then did everything one could possibly do on VC10, ended up as full A cat - was also going for A cat in AT after first 18 months as a B cat in the role, but the scheme was scrapped before I got the chance. Recommended to do A1 QFI upgrade, but had become increasingly disillusioned with meddling interference, wheel re-invention, constant cut-backs and people who never said thank you, so didn't get round to doing it. Decided to PVR, then sent to Binnsworth for final 7 weeks by grateful air force....20 years at Brize, 5000+hours on the '10 and not even a stn dining-out. Pretty well summed up the way things had changed over 20 years.... Feel valued..??
Best times were V-force, closely followed by first 18 years on the '10....until we began to work harder and harder for no reward; all stick and no carrot, assets clearly didn't match tasks... Enough was enough - so that's when I pulled the handle.
Best decision I ever made as I now get paid for doing things which the RAF used to take for granted - and the MD writes personally to say thank you! I work with a well-respected team, no-one is worried about promotion or helping some self-important pr@tt to crawl up a multi-starred rectum; instead we just concentrate on the task in hand.
Bitter? No, not really. Except that over 40 places in the UK alone where the RAF used to fly when I joined have now closed, most of the ac are well past their sell-by date....and yet the cuts just keep on coming! Good luck to those staying in - I think you're going to need it!
So, to summarise:
Chipmunk/JP/Gnat/Hunter. Posted to 58 Sqn, sqn disbanded a few weeks later. Posted to Buccs, top of student bombing ladder and weapons theory (100%), then chopped for lack of progress. JP ref, then Vulcan on 35 Sqn. Did Bombing comp in USA, selected for captaincy but asked to go back to fast jets. JP ref, then Hawk at Chiv (won best weapons trophy), then Phantoms. 500 hours and Operational, but not up to their requirements. Yet another ref course, this time on the worthless Jetstream. Then VC10 course, then VC10K on 101 Sqn. Co-pilot, then captain, then IRE before being sent to CFS. Won Bulldog aeros trophy, then off to UAS for 3 years with 6 months off as VC10K captain in GW1. Back to UAS, did A2, then posted back to VC10. Right place, right time - asked to join OCU staff. Then did everything one could possibly do on VC10, ended up as full A cat - was also going for A cat in AT after first 18 months as a B cat in the role, but the scheme was scrapped before I got the chance. Recommended to do A1 QFI upgrade, but had become increasingly disillusioned with meddling interference, wheel re-invention, constant cut-backs and people who never said thank you, so didn't get round to doing it. Decided to PVR, then sent to Binnsworth for final 7 weeks by grateful air force....20 years at Brize, 5000+hours on the '10 and not even a stn dining-out. Pretty well summed up the way things had changed over 20 years.... Feel valued..??
Best times were V-force, closely followed by first 18 years on the '10....until we began to work harder and harder for no reward; all stick and no carrot, assets clearly didn't match tasks... Enough was enough - so that's when I pulled the handle.
Best decision I ever made as I now get paid for doing things which the RAF used to take for granted - and the MD writes personally to say thank you! I work with a well-respected team, no-one is worried about promotion or helping some self-important pr@tt to crawl up a multi-starred rectum; instead we just concentrate on the task in hand.
Bitter? No, not really. Except that over 40 places in the UK alone where the RAF used to fly when I joined have now closed, most of the ac are well past their sell-by date....and yet the cuts just keep on coming! Good luck to those staying in - I think you're going to need it!
Last edited by BEagle; 12th Jan 2004 at 06:42.