Buccaneer Low level
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In '75, two of XV''s rivet pullers had a brief, but passionate, meeting out of Karup. The lead crew carried out a text book ejection--I believe--and the other recovered to Karup. The farce begins. The recovered Bucc.is deemed to be Cat 5. ( please note this was by a to$$ah who drove non stop to Karup from Bruggen--to save the Air Force money and not claim any rates!--and who also said he could exist on the LOA of Kr9 per day 
) A review decided the a/c was only Cat 3. Plan A. Fly 5 Eng + tools to Karup. Plan B Compress the above into a BL 1800---and drive up!. So, night stop in Hamburg, ---obviously and arrive at Karup. The LH L/E of the Bucc was like a piece of corrugated paper---BUT--when we folded the wing---it lifted perfectly and was removed with no complications and NO secondary structural damage. Replace wing and Bingo. Enter the recovery of the one in the sea phase----plus one Grimsby trawler, two MoD divers, and one permanently pi$$ed MoD person ( in his Jag !) who was paranoid about the funny bits in the rear being on public display when the wreckage was landed. This was quite amusing as, when we did land the bits, it was just like Spy vs Spy--a lot of people taking piccies--of people taking piccies etc.at a small fishing port. Speys make excellent crab pots btw
Denmark is a very hospitable Country and we had a very pleasant 5 week sabbitical---thank you XV---which was only spoilt by some shiny a$$e at Bruggen noting that the 1800 fuel comsumtion "seemed excessive"--BL 1800 speedo cables were prone to disonnection over a 4.5 day cycle OK !. One other memorable person was the Station M.O. ---dressed in uniform shirt----and wearing maroon flared cords----would have gone down a bomb at Waddo to judge from previous posts Oh, and we got the LOA raised to Kr 28 per day as well !!
Also brought a Gnat back, same year, from the Tiger meet at Leck. Said Gnat driver, either through sexual frustration and / or confusion about the AAR capability of the Gnat, attempted to mate with an F-104--from behind. The pointy bit on the Gnat was well and truly crinkled--which must have made the landing interesting I suppose--but did provide us with another 10 day sabbatical whilst we put it on a low loader. In both cases however, the structural integrity of the Airframe reflected the skills of the designers and manufacturers given that there was no further damage. Either of these jog any memories at all ?
) A review decided the a/c was only Cat 3. Plan A. Fly 5 Eng + tools to Karup. Plan B Compress the above into a BL 1800---and drive up!. So, night stop in Hamburg, ---obviously and arrive at Karup. The LH L/E of the Bucc was like a piece of corrugated paper---BUT--when we folded the wing---it lifted perfectly and was removed with no complications and NO secondary structural damage. Replace wing and Bingo. Enter the recovery of the one in the sea phase----plus one Grimsby trawler, two MoD divers, and one permanently pi$$ed MoD person ( in his Jag !) who was paranoid about the funny bits in the rear being on public display when the wreckage was landed. This was quite amusing as, when we did land the bits, it was just like Spy vs Spy--a lot of people taking piccies--of people taking piccies etc.at a small fishing port. Speys make excellent crab pots btw Denmark is a very hospitable Country and we had a very pleasant 5 week sabbitical---thank you XV---which was only spoilt by some shiny a$$e at Bruggen noting that the 1800 fuel comsumtion "seemed excessive"--BL 1800 speedo cables were prone to disonnection over a 4.5 day cycle OK !. One other memorable person was the Station M.O. ---dressed in uniform shirt----and wearing maroon flared cords----would have gone down a bomb at Waddo to judge from previous posts Oh, and we got the LOA raised to Kr 28 per day as well !!Also brought a Gnat back, same year, from the Tiger meet at Leck. Said Gnat driver, either through sexual frustration and / or confusion about the AAR capability of the Gnat, attempted to mate with an F-104--from behind. The pointy bit on the Gnat was well and truly crinkled--which must have made the landing interesting I suppose--but did provide us with another 10 day sabbatical whilst we put it on a low loader. In both cases however, the structural integrity of the Airframe reflected the skills of the designers and manufacturers given that there was no further damage. Either of these jog any memories at all ?
Yes - I saw the Gnat at Valley and I'm astonished that it stayed in the air. You could se a lot of daylight through the floor and most of the nose had gone although a few avionic boxes were dangling on their cables.....
Then there was the guy who porked up a night toss attack at Wainfleet, but gritted his teeth, rolled wings level and pulled like a bug.ger. Big strong chap, but so was the Bucc. The AR probe bent under the strain, both inboard flaps fell off - he knew about the former but not the latter, so his intended 45-10-10 landing became an inadvertant 0-10-10 landing which made control even more difficult. I think that he pulled over 10g - some reports suggested 14g. But a couple of new flaps, a new probe a thorough check and it flew again, I gather!
Then there was the guy who porked up a night toss attack at Wainfleet, but gritted his teeth, rolled wings level and pulled like a bug.ger. Big strong chap, but so was the Bucc. The AR probe bent under the strain, both inboard flaps fell off - he knew about the former but not the latter, so his intended 45-10-10 landing became an inadvertant 0-10-10 landing which made control even more difficult. I think that he pulled over 10g - some reports suggested 14g. But a couple of new flaps, a new probe a thorough check and it flew again, I gather!
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reynoldsno1 old chap - you're really exercising my sagging brain! I haven't had the pleasure of visiting Tangiers so I guess I must've been the chain-dragger, sorry! - nobody let on to HRH that it really wasn't an event laid on for her benefit. My jolly Irish nav would probably remember more if he's watching -------------
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CMOTS
Good to see you're still around mate! Why not at Blitz this time?
Can't think who all these supposedly nasty chappies were on 237, can you? In comparison with the guys on 229OCU at Chivenor in the early days, they were all choirboys. Those who survived either experience are, I suspect, none the worse - there are those that can and those that can't eh?
And never mind HRH - what about the Vangelis continuity girl and all those other Rock maidens ------ aah; pity about my old walnut!
Merry Crimble & Bananas, Bananas
Good to see you're still around mate! Why not at Blitz this time?
Can't think who all these supposedly nasty chappies were on 237, can you? In comparison with the guys on 229OCU at Chivenor in the early days, they were all choirboys. Those who survived either experience are, I suspect, none the worse - there are those that can and those that can't eh?
And never mind HRH - what about the Vangelis continuity girl and all those other Rock maidens ------ aah; pity about my old walnut!
Merry Crimble & Bananas, Bananas
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It will always be my favorite aircraft. I think it was airlife brought out a paperback on the bucc and had a section on op pulsator (lebanon) showing the track of the flights over Beruit. I always think it was sad that the Buccaneer was never developed further. The pics of them operating of Ark and Eagle are excellent btw. I see the RAF download library has a bucc screen saver on it.
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Ferry flights :)
Hansard
".....will the Minister turn his attention to Buccaneer jets? A potentially catastrophic incident took place off the coast of my constituency yesterday, when a Buccaneer jet took evasive action and missed a ferry by only 40 ft. We accept that pilots must train, but does the right hon. Gentleman agree that it is wrong for them to do so along busy ferry lanes?"
Did they ever use bus lanes too?
".....will the Minister turn his attention to Buccaneer jets? A potentially catastrophic incident took place off the coast of my constituency yesterday, when a Buccaneer jet took evasive action and missed a ferry by only 40 ft. We accept that pilots must train, but does the right hon. Gentleman agree that it is wrong for them to do so along busy ferry lanes?"
Did they ever use bus lanes too?
Last edited by Smoketoomuch; 23rd Dec 2003 at 03:47.
Beag's tale of the strength of the Bucc reminded me of the Martel trials by the Boscombe crew, using Ark (IIRC). The weather was fairly average, but the Crab driver had no fear, and continued past the limits of mere mortal. With a movement of the round down of about 50-60 ft, the final arrival was...interesting.
If you remove the tyres from the mains, remove all oils & seals from the oleos, the undercarriage doors have about 1" clearance from the deck.
If you land a Bucc with Martels in extreme conditions on a carrier, it is possible to scrape about 1" off the bottom of the undercarriage doors as the gear compresses and flexes.
Made for good viewing from goofers
If you remove the tyres from the mains, remove all oils & seals from the oleos, the undercarriage doors have about 1" clearance from the deck.
If you land a Bucc with Martels in extreme conditions on a carrier, it is possible to scrape about 1" off the bottom of the undercarriage doors as the gear compresses and flexes.
Made for good viewing from goofers
Bent Bucc
BEagle's 10g Bucc stirred a few memories. I did the rectification on that aircraft. There were holes all over it where the departing flaps and pen nibs, had hit the rear fuselage. The U/W tanks and CBLS had also disappeared. The pitot tube had also put a fair size hole in the aileron.
Funnily enough, after we did the symmetry checks and declared it to be spot-on, HSA/BAe dug out the history and it turned out that the symmetry had always been quite a way out.
I believe that the Navy had declared it a rogue because it always turned to one side when trimmed for carrier take-offs (or so the civvy rep said). Perhaps John Eacott or his colleagues can confirm (XT 271?).
Funnily enough, after we did the symmetry checks and declared it to be spot-on, HSA/BAe dug out the history and it turned out that the symmetry had always been quite a way out.
I believe that the Navy had declared it a rogue because it always turned to one side when trimmed for carrier take-offs (or so the civvy rep said). Perhaps John Eacott or his colleagues can confirm (XT 271?).
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I was privileged to work with the Bucc community when I worked as a PDS engineer on the Paveway 2 LGB. We did some special work for them prior to one of the Red Flag detachments - can't recall the year but one of the Banana Bombers was credited with killing a F15. The defenders were so hacked off with the Buccs hitting every target they were assigned that one of them decided to mix it at (very) low level. Big mistake - the Bucc took him out with a (simulated) 1000-pound retarded bomb. The umpires declared that the F15 had been caught by the blast and had been destroyed. Buccs 1, Eagles 0.
I got a very good last look at a Bucaneer during its last public display at Cranfield. The two aircraft concerned used the village where I live as the IP for the display. Superb sight (and sound).
I got a very good last look at a Bucaneer during its last public display at Cranfield. The two aircraft concerned used the village where I live as the IP for the display. Superb sight (and sound).
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Saddest sight I ever saw, decommissioned Bucc hulks in an Elgin scrap yard, proud and mighty former war beasts now only scrap aluminium & perspex. Most heartening sight, every day passing the "gate guard" preserved kite at the Buccaneer Filling Station, Elgin. Great for photo oportunities, always see tourists there in the summer and well done to the owners for putting their money where their mouth is (more than can be said for their Airships).
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I was a holding officer (APO) at Honington in 1977, just prior to my own jet course at Linton. Worked on the 237 OCU ops desk. Got daily bollockings from a certain Wg Cdr Parr, mainly caused by me not having a clue what he was talking about on the squawk box because no-one bothered to train me before leaving me to work 12 hour shifts. I sadly remember Steve Noble, a good mate there, later killed in a Red Arrows Gnat crash during a display practice with a passenger whose knee caught the flap lever and retracted them.
Anyone remember the 237 OCU Bucc that finished up in a Welsh lake? Pulled 13G plus to avoid a Hunter in the LFA and the tail came off.
Or the one that came back from the range with mud splashes on it from its own 28lb practice bomb? Trainee pilot got target fixation. I remember seeing the white faces of the pilot and staff Nav as they went to watch the video and debrief.....
And the later one (1990s) that was landed with a total hydraulics failure? No landing gear, flaps, brakes or airbrakes. An "interesting" landing, 230 kts touchdown, in manual and with gear up, made an awful lot of sparks.... and two large fireballs from the fuel in the drop tanks that they thought had been used / jettisoned. Tanks were left on to prevent the aircraft digging a wing in and rolling over on the runway. Total hydraulics failure also prevented fuel jettison, no-one knew that until then! As the tanks touched the tarmac they were holed and the sparks ignited the escaping fuel, first one side then the other. The second fireball engulfed the aircraft but as it continued down the runway it emerged again relatively unscathed. It was all videoed, the last thing it showed was the canopy opening and two crew jumping out and running like hell! The firetrucks sirens were far away in the distance, as they were chasing the aircraft from the downwind threshold.
The pilot (another mate of mine, later became Wg Cdr RAFAT) said afterwards they should have banged out, that particular Bucc never flew again. They gave him a Green Endorsement and scrapped the aircraft.
Anyone remember the 237 OCU Bucc that finished up in a Welsh lake? Pulled 13G plus to avoid a Hunter in the LFA and the tail came off.
Or the one that came back from the range with mud splashes on it from its own 28lb practice bomb? Trainee pilot got target fixation. I remember seeing the white faces of the pilot and staff Nav as they went to watch the video and debrief.....
And the later one (1990s) that was landed with a total hydraulics failure? No landing gear, flaps, brakes or airbrakes. An "interesting" landing, 230 kts touchdown, in manual and with gear up, made an awful lot of sparks.... and two large fireballs from the fuel in the drop tanks that they thought had been used / jettisoned. Tanks were left on to prevent the aircraft digging a wing in and rolling over on the runway. Total hydraulics failure also prevented fuel jettison, no-one knew that until then! As the tanks touched the tarmac they were holed and the sparks ignited the escaping fuel, first one side then the other. The second fireball engulfed the aircraft but as it continued down the runway it emerged again relatively unscathed. It was all videoed, the last thing it showed was the canopy opening and two crew jumping out and running like hell! The firetrucks sirens were far away in the distance, as they were chasing the aircraft from the downwind threshold.
The pilot (another mate of mine, later became Wg Cdr RAFAT) said afterwards they should have banged out, that particular Bucc never flew again. They gave him a Green Endorsement and scrapped the aircraft.
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Buccaneer collision 1975
Stirring memories? You bet. I was training at Karup ATC the day it happened. They were using the Romoe range EK R38 just north of the German border, when they collided. Both made it back to Karup. One landed - fast-ish - as I remember, shedding a few bits on the runway. The other overflew the station (with a mate), then headed for the west coast, as they could barely keep straight and level in landing configuration. The ejection went well and the aircraft and crew landed in the shallow fjord outside Stauning, EKVJ. Maybe one of them in the North Sea? One of 729 sqn's young recce pilots got so exited about actually getting the ejection on camera, that he nearly ran his RF-35 Draken out of fuel. (And he didn't even get the shot!)
More coming up in a few days.
(And incredibly I'm still here!)
Off to Christmas. Here comes the "Night Watch".
Happy Holidays.
Normally left blank
More coming up in a few days.
(And incredibly I'm still here!)
Off to Christmas. Here comes the "Night Watch".
Happy Holidays.
Normally left blank
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"Where are the Buccaneers?"
"On the sides of your Buccinead!"
Remember the Beirute film on the News that evening. Looked like a lot of fun. I was truly impressed. The Buck might have been fast but an old associate of mine tells the tail of recovering his and seeing the bullet holes left by the "quaint" Mustangs that he had passed over Borneo!
"On the sides of your Buccinead!"
Remember the Beirute film on the News that evening. Looked like a lot of fun. I was truly impressed. The Buck might have been fast but an old associate of mine tells the tail of recovering his and seeing the bullet holes left by the "quaint" Mustangs that he had passed over Borneo!
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Shortlived Bucc
XV 351 delivered RN 3/10/67 - crashed into the Wash 11/11/74 with 809 Sqn. In between with 12 (?) Sqn RAF, when it made an impression on Karup Airstation, Denmark.
On 12'th of May 1971 it was taking off for Bodø, Norway, when just before lift off the right main gear tire blew. With the rim on fire the Buccanneer continued past the end of the 10.000 foot runway, taking the first barrier, which was down, with the hook. Then the raised barrier in the overrun. Messing both up. The navigator ejected while the pilot stayed. Both were safe. The fire went out in the sandy ground. Until recently the scars in the overrun from the broken rim were still visible.
Then a night of recovery helped by RN Sea Vixen? ground crew, that happened to be there. (So no high spending RAF technicians needed!) (At first). XV 351 ended up with a wooden wheel to get it away from the runway!
I have many happy memories of squadron exchanges with many RAF types (pun intended).
On 12'th of May 1971 it was taking off for Bodø, Norway, when just before lift off the right main gear tire blew. With the rim on fire the Buccanneer continued past the end of the 10.000 foot runway, taking the first barrier, which was down, with the hook. Then the raised barrier in the overrun. Messing both up. The navigator ejected while the pilot stayed. Both were safe. The fire went out in the sandy ground. Until recently the scars in the overrun from the broken rim were still visible.
Then a night of recovery helped by RN Sea Vixen? ground crew, that happened to be there. (So no high spending RAF technicians needed!) (At first). XV 351 ended up with a wooden wheel to get it away from the runway!
I have many happy memories of squadron exchanges with many RAF types (pun intended).
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Doubledolphins, I'm curious. Am I just being thick or is there something my junior years and woeful lack of historical knowledge has missed? Why were "quaint" Mustangs shooting at Buccaneers. Had N Korea / China purchased a job lot after WWII or were the yanks merely continuing a blue on blue tradition started in said conflict and continued in every one since. An old soldier friend who served in WWII once told me "When the Germans flew over, we ducked. When the British flew over, the Germans ducked. But when the Yanks flew over EVERYONE ducked!"
Merry Xmas and Seasons Greetings for '04 to one and all.
ps Did anyone see the "Grumpy Old Men at Christmas?" Classic, I taped it and made the familt watch it with me yesterday evening, haven't had such a laugh in a long time.
Merry Xmas and Seasons Greetings for '04 to one and all.
ps Did anyone see the "Grumpy Old Men at Christmas?" Classic, I taped it and made the familt watch it with me yesterday evening, haven't had such a laugh in a long time.
NimNW,
Use of 'Borneo' suggests Indonesian Air Force. They had Mustangs at the time of the Confrontation. There are some interesting tales (Jackonicko knows more on this) that one of these Mustangs took part in events that undermine the 'the RAF has only shot down RAF aircraft' line somewhat...
As an aside one of the BoBMF Spitfires (I think it joined the Flight later, anyway) was pressed into service to train Lightning mates in the arts of shooting down prop-driven fighters so that the Indonesian Mustangs could be engaged if needs must.
Use of 'Borneo' suggests Indonesian Air Force. They had Mustangs at the time of the Confrontation. There are some interesting tales (Jackonicko knows more on this) that one of these Mustangs took part in events that undermine the 'the RAF has only shot down RAF aircraft' line somewhat...
As an aside one of the BoBMF Spitfires (I think it joined the Flight later, anyway) was pressed into service to train Lightning mates in the arts of shooting down prop-driven fighters so that the Indonesian Mustangs could be engaged if needs must.
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Morning Gents. I dredged this one up from hungover memory banks this morning. They weren't too clear so Google'd a couple of helpful sites for the facts. However, am I right in saying this is the only time British forces have used Napalm in anger? AND, did we really only get 75% of hits on target?!
"On 18 March, 1967 the 'Torrey Canyon' struck Pollard's Rock in the Seven Stones reef between the Scilly Isles and Land's End, England. She was the first of the big supertankers, carrying a cargo of 120,000 tons of oil.
On Tuesday 28th March 1967 the Fleet Air Arm sent Buccaneers from Lossiemouth to drop forty-two 1,000-pound bombs on the wreck. This was followed by the Royal Air Force in sending Hunter jets to drop cans of aviation fuel to make the oil blaze. Seventy five per cent of the bombs were on target and both sections of the wreck were on fire.
However, exceptionally high tides had put the blaze out and it took further attacks by Sea Vixens from the Naval Air Station at Yeovilton and Buccaneers from the Naval Air Station at Brawdy as well as more RAF Hunters with napalm to ignite the oil until the wreck was free from oil.
Crowds of holidaymakers were watching the spectacle from the shoreline at Lands End. Though the bombing was declared a success the Press made much of the twenty five per cent of misses on a stationary target."
Archimedes, thanks for the reply, getting my post WWII conflicts mixed up. "Indonesian Air Force had Mustangs". Is this an early example of the USA arming the rest of the world only to get bitten on the bum? Of course now it's down to us to supply the IAF with Hawks, n'est ce-pas?
Torrey Canyon Statistics 42 bombs dropped, 25% missed target, 270 sq mi of oil in sea, 73 mi oil on coastline, 540 kl crude oil spilled
From :"British Divers Website"
Torrey Canyon:-
Position
50 02.50N; 06 07.73W.
Diving
Very broken, spread over a mile of reef, bow in gulley north west of pollard rock, stern well to south
Additional : Beware of unexploded bombs and rockets.
Is this where the 25% "missed" bombs are. Did they fail to arm through being dropped too low or near the target a la Argentinian Air Force in San Carlos Sound, May 1982?
"On 18 March, 1967 the 'Torrey Canyon' struck Pollard's Rock in the Seven Stones reef between the Scilly Isles and Land's End, England. She was the first of the big supertankers, carrying a cargo of 120,000 tons of oil.
On Tuesday 28th March 1967 the Fleet Air Arm sent Buccaneers from Lossiemouth to drop forty-two 1,000-pound bombs on the wreck. This was followed by the Royal Air Force in sending Hunter jets to drop cans of aviation fuel to make the oil blaze. Seventy five per cent of the bombs were on target and both sections of the wreck were on fire.
However, exceptionally high tides had put the blaze out and it took further attacks by Sea Vixens from the Naval Air Station at Yeovilton and Buccaneers from the Naval Air Station at Brawdy as well as more RAF Hunters with napalm to ignite the oil until the wreck was free from oil.
Crowds of holidaymakers were watching the spectacle from the shoreline at Lands End. Though the bombing was declared a success the Press made much of the twenty five per cent of misses on a stationary target."
Archimedes, thanks for the reply, getting my post WWII conflicts mixed up. "Indonesian Air Force had Mustangs". Is this an early example of the USA arming the rest of the world only to get bitten on the bum? Of course now it's down to us to supply the IAF with Hawks, n'est ce-pas?
Torrey Canyon Statistics 42 bombs dropped, 25% missed target, 270 sq mi of oil in sea, 73 mi oil on coastline, 540 kl crude oil spilled
From :"British Divers Website"
Torrey Canyon:-
Position
50 02.50N; 06 07.73W.
Diving
Very broken, spread over a mile of reef, bow in gulley north west of pollard rock, stern well to south
Additional : Beware of unexploded bombs and rockets.
Is this where the 25% "missed" bombs are. Did they fail to arm through being dropped too low or near the target a la Argentinian Air Force in San Carlos Sound, May 1982?