Sorry I'm only part time
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Emptying the litter bin
Age: 65
Posts: 409
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
Sorry I'm only part time
Bl@@dy he!! 
Wherever do we go next??? Does this whiner not realise that she's promoting the argument against recruiting women at all to the highest possible levels?
How on earth to deal with that one - getting the job done vs the Law. An original Hobson's Choice!
Wherever do we go next??? Does this whiner not realise that she's promoting the argument against recruiting women at all to the highest possible levels?
How on earth to deal with that one - getting the job done vs the Law. An original Hobson's Choice!
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: in my combat underpants
Age: 53
Posts: 1,065
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What next - deployed creches?
If she wants part time military, transfer her to the Reserves!
I'm not against the concept of getting paople back to work after anything (birth of child, serious accident etc) but the implications as a manager of these people is terrifying. I hope those in the higher pay bands are thinking hard right now.
If she wants part time military, transfer her to the Reserves!
I'm not against the concept of getting paople back to work after anything (birth of child, serious accident etc) but the implications as a manager of these people is terrifying. I hope those in the higher pay bands are thinking hard right now.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Muscat, Oman
Posts: 604
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Send the dappy tart to sea and tell her she can swim home each day at 1400 but has to swim back in time to be at work for 0900. What is the place coming to. Part-time military? I hope they're docking her pay based on our salary is for 24 hrs a day 365 days a year. Pay her 4 hours worth Monday to Friday (if she works that much) - should put her on about 4 grand a year. All she's worth if someone else has got to do her job for her anyway!
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: England
Posts: 45
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I guess another implication is that the MOD could not discriminate on the basis of gender. So, if the mother can go part-time then surely the father has the same right? Therefore, if you're in a really crap job just keep producing the sproggs and you'll only have to do half a tour. Fantastic!!
Mike,
Although I want to see the results of your reasoning (more people, and them in post for longer) I can't see that recruiting an employee who gets to work part time does either of those 2 things!
All that results is that the $#!tty front line deployments are filled by the same people each time while others get a cushty part time number back in blighty.
How on earth does that enhance personnel levels? The job that needs to be done is a permanent one. If a task can be done part time, then dis-establish the post and get a temp in. Use the savings to prevent more cuts.
This is ludicrous legality undermining the respect of the courts.
Although I want to see the results of your reasoning (more people, and them in post for longer) I can't see that recruiting an employee who gets to work part time does either of those 2 things!
All that results is that the $#!tty front line deployments are filled by the same people each time while others get a cushty part time number back in blighty.
How on earth does that enhance personnel levels? The job that needs to be done is a permanent one. If a task can be done part time, then dis-establish the post and get a temp in. Use the savings to prevent more cuts.
This is ludicrous legality undermining the respect of the courts.
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: uk
Posts: 119
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Propulike
Getting temps in does not save money, they cost just as much as the person you are replacing (IF NOT MORE) then require training and retraining, as they come and go.
You obviously went to the same maths class as the personell managers within the NHS who allow the same nurses to work part time during the week then do agency work at weekends covering the same post at twice the pay!
then dis-establish the post and get a temp in. Use the savings...
You obviously went to the same maths class as the personell managers within the NHS who allow the same nurses to work part time during the week then do agency work at weekends covering the same post at twice the pay!
Well, personally I say good luck to her!
"I want the Royal Navy to accept that it is not above the law and introduce policies that prove it is prepared to show more care towards the welfare needs of its employees in respect of work-life balance."
Absolutely right. The real issue is that the undersize, overstetched and generally abused UK Armed Forces are just too small now to be able to exercise any flexibility in such cases.
Much as I deplore the blatant tactical brat-breeding which I've come across in the past, this lady does have a point. I hope that the suits in the Monastery of Definance are forecd to buck their ideas up and stop treating people with all the managerial skills of a Victorian mill owner!
"I want the Royal Navy to accept that it is not above the law and introduce policies that prove it is prepared to show more care towards the welfare needs of its employees in respect of work-life balance."
Absolutely right. The real issue is that the undersize, overstetched and generally abused UK Armed Forces are just too small now to be able to exercise any flexibility in such cases.
Much as I deplore the blatant tactical brat-breeding which I've come across in the past, this lady does have a point. I hope that the suits in the Monastery of Definance are forecd to buck their ideas up and stop treating people with all the managerial skills of a Victorian mill owner!
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Continent
Posts: 54
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Part-timers & and Keen Individuals With Integrity
You may be pleased to read that the RAF is happy to descriminate against Commonwealth officers serving in the RAF (see other thread on Immigration and the RAF) warning of dire consequences (eg limited career opportunities, no deployments) if Citizenship is not taken out yesterday! Something to do with 'Coalition concerns'.
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: NW England
Posts: 95
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So what happens in the event of MINEVAL, TACEVAL, or God forbid, the real thing?
If in married quarters - Hooter goes at 04@*= sake.
If in private squat – phone call at same time as above.
Boss on the end of the phone,
“Quick! Get in here, the Sh*t has hit the fan in Umbonggo Land, and we’ve got to move out in two hours!”
Damsels’ reply -
“No, sorry. I don’t do Thursdays before lunch!”
If you take the Queens shilling, irrespective of colour of uniform, rank, or sex, you are part of one of the best fighting forces in the world, and as such you can be called on to operate, fight and die if necessary, if so ordered by the Sovereign, in any corner of the world.
At this rate, the do gooders will have us stop the issue of sacking undergarments to all recruits as well.
Mind you, if like that kind of thing, you could always become a monk.
If in married quarters - Hooter goes at 04@*= sake.
If in private squat – phone call at same time as above.
Boss on the end of the phone,
“Quick! Get in here, the Sh*t has hit the fan in Umbonggo Land, and we’ve got to move out in two hours!”
Damsels’ reply -
“No, sorry. I don’t do Thursdays before lunch!”
If you take the Queens shilling, irrespective of colour of uniform, rank, or sex, you are part of one of the best fighting forces in the world, and as such you can be called on to operate, fight and die if necessary, if so ordered by the Sovereign, in any corner of the world.
At this rate, the do gooders will have us stop the issue of sacking undergarments to all recruits as well.
Mind you, if like that kind of thing, you could always become a monk.
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Forward Fuel Tank
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BEagle: away and catch yourself on ……
"Absolutely right. The real issue is that the undersize, overstetched and generally abused UK Armed Forces are just too small now to be able to exercise any flexibility in such cases".
So you don't think that by taking this action she is adding to the "undersize, overstretched AF? What of the knock-on effect, 'cos this will surely open the floodgates.
Propulike is right, she has not done her cause any good at all - it has the same analogy as buying a house next to an airfield then complaining about the noise. She was happy enough to take the shilling and conform to the X factor entitlement when it suited her, now that life / family / work all becomes too much, she pulls the old SD card. Not on, for whatever reason - this will evoke many a parental / military voice from within.
Will the MoD take note? I doubt it, the issue will be money at the end of the day. How much and how often will they have to fork out. Which of course will effect someone else, somewhere else down the line - less coffers in the ever-depleting pot - same old same old.
I really don't think she has any idea what she has done. A blow for the cause, I don't think so.
"Absolutely right. The real issue is that the undersize, overstetched and generally abused UK Armed Forces are just too small now to be able to exercise any flexibility in such cases".
So you don't think that by taking this action she is adding to the "undersize, overstretched AF? What of the knock-on effect, 'cos this will surely open the floodgates.
Propulike is right, she has not done her cause any good at all - it has the same analogy as buying a house next to an airfield then complaining about the noise. She was happy enough to take the shilling and conform to the X factor entitlement when it suited her, now that life / family / work all becomes too much, she pulls the old SD card. Not on, for whatever reason - this will evoke many a parental / military voice from within.
Will the MoD take note? I doubt it, the issue will be money at the end of the day. How much and how often will they have to fork out. Which of course will effect someone else, somewhere else down the line - less coffers in the ever-depleting pot - same old same old.
I really don't think she has any idea what she has done. A blow for the cause, I don't think so.
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: earth
Posts: 1,397
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If this ruling stands I guess military employment is further down the road to be equivalent to civilian. Soon we will see union membership, strikes, jobsworth attitudes, refusal to do overtime and all the negative working practises of civilian life.
So when are we going to privatise the rest of the armed forces?
So when are we going to privatise the rest of the armed forces?
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: A bit of a gypsy of late!
Age: 55
Posts: 146
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
a simple plan would be devised where as the potential recruit signs a contract stating that he/she (transgender is now allowed, sadly!) will not become pregnant during their tenure in the military and hey presto, we the willing will no longer be asked to be streched to the limit (no pun intended!), doing jobs with little recognition to allow these people to skive off.
mmmmmm, not an entirely new idea, isit? no doubt the pc brigade/do gooders will bawl and shout but surely if one knew their rights before putting pen to paper, then they wouldn't be discriminated against.
damn shirkers anyway - childbirth should be followed by a cup of tea, a few brufen and back to work after lunch!
lead, follow or get outofthe f**cking way!!
isitd
mmmmmm, not an entirely new idea, isit? no doubt the pc brigade/do gooders will bawl and shout but surely if one knew their rights before putting pen to paper, then they wouldn't be discriminated against.
damn shirkers anyway - childbirth should be followed by a cup of tea, a few brufen and back to work after lunch!
lead, follow or get outofthe f**cking way!!
isitd
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: uk
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
part time forces..Umm..well
what to do with the masses, as i am sure the floodgates will now open?
stick them all in them nasy office jobs that no one really wants and where they will never be missed while off careing for their offspring...
and deduct their pay to the value of the X factor, as they are not earning it.
you never know it could get some quality guys and girls out of dead end jobs and back in the front line where they belong.
what to do with the masses, as i am sure the floodgates will now open?
stick them all in them nasy office jobs that no one really wants and where they will never be missed while off careing for their offspring...
and deduct their pay to the value of the X factor, as they are not earning it.
you never know it could get some quality guys and girls out of dead end jobs and back in the front line where they belong.
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: UK, when I'm not taking people on their holidays
Posts: 51
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What a lot of old tosh and I'm not talking about what the PO with 20 years service did after finding juggling 2 kids and a job although it was a tad misguided. If any of you lot are personnel managers, flt commanders, bosses etc then I suggest you take a long cold look at what you have written and think about what you are implying in your posts. I wonder if you would have reacted any differently if it had been a guy who was in this situation and taken this action....... Maybe we should ban all women from having children for their period of service - have you been smoking crack!! This woman worked for 17 years before it became a problem. Sod it we might as well just ban all relationships/families entirely as they get in the way of the services needs. Lets face facts, the Forces are crap at looking after the needs of their personnel including families, which is a tad unfortunate seeing as people are the main asset we have to work with. Luckily some of you hide behind your somewhat outdated and frankly sexist attitude that the service knows best and who cares its always been this way. I'm damn glad I don't work for you and I live happily knowing that you treat everyone in the same way ensuring that people who do sport, get their cars fixed, run errands, pick kids up from school, go to school play etc etc do it all in their free time and never during company time and that no flexibility will be tolerated as we're so busy. In a short stretched airforce the attitude of like it or lump it simply drives people away. The vast majority of women don't have kids because they want to get out of the service or work shorter hours although that may be a revelation to some posters. For you X factor junkies maybe the horse crap that some of the girls have to put up with whilst juggling motherhood and a career kind of justifies it. This case could probably been avoided by some intelligent (wo)man management at the immediate supervisor level, not gone all the way to a tribunal. Sorry but I think it shows the poor leadership/management and outdated attitudes that are prevalent in an organisation which pays lip service to looking after its personnel. Hide behind the 'woman know your limits' attitude if you want or have the balls to do something about it. Good leadership costs nothing!!!!
Rant off.
Rant off.
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Swamp Land in East Anglia
Posts: 69
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
May I suggest she takes a sabatical, unpaid of course, while she brings her children up. Most of us have children and we manage and organise our lives accordingly. She obviously struggles with the "managing resources" aspect of her life, I wonder if this is reflected in her annual report. We must not forget we are a fighting force and not some faceless PLC. When she joined in 1983 she joined under rules that stated if you had children then it was good bye; because of the issues that have been brought by this court case. Things may of changed on that front but you can take this "Touchy Feely" stuff too far.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: in my combat underpants
Age: 53
Posts: 1,065
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Alf - calm down, calm down
Alf - now remember the mantra 'In with hate - out with love'.
I posted as someone who has managed people to the very best of my ability for the last 8 yrs. There are many things the Military could do better to help its people. However, we still need flexibility and that comes from having a workforce that can pretty much do what it does wherever it has to. That is the nature of military - to project political power for the people it serves.
I have seen sections split where someone WAS getting preferred treatment. It is a nightmare to work in and a nightmare to manage. How would the wives of the poor b@stards being deployed more than their turn feel knowing someone else was getting far more time at home and not taking a turn? It then becomes devisive and gets horrible.
If the management gave us ways of making people more flexible (not just removing our spines as zobs!) then that would be a help. This is not. I feel for the woman involved and think it is a valid point for discussion, but I'm not bright enough to come up with the answer!
I posted as someone who has managed people to the very best of my ability for the last 8 yrs. There are many things the Military could do better to help its people. However, we still need flexibility and that comes from having a workforce that can pretty much do what it does wherever it has to. That is the nature of military - to project political power for the people it serves.
I have seen sections split where someone WAS getting preferred treatment. It is a nightmare to work in and a nightmare to manage. How would the wives of the poor b@stards being deployed more than their turn feel knowing someone else was getting far more time at home and not taking a turn? It then becomes devisive and gets horrible.
If the management gave us ways of making people more flexible (not just removing our spines as zobs!) then that would be a help. This is not. I feel for the woman involved and think it is a valid point for discussion, but I'm not bright enough to come up with the answer!
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: uk
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Alf - chill out
This is not a sexist issue, with all the rules on equality the impact of this (questionably dodgy) court decision will apply equally to the guys out there.
Please try to remember that this case concerns a member of the UK Military which are called on 24/7/365. Sure, many other UK employers are happy to allow part time work or even jobshare but would you really want this in the Military. would you be prepared to foot the extra tax bill it would generate having maybe two persons employed for each post?
It may well be that this kind of event is very rare, but dont forget that if someone is unable to partake in a certain duty that requirement will not go away, so suddenly some poor manager is short of two members of his staff. we are all acutely aware of the current manning shortfalls in the military (overstretch?) so how would you suggest we overcome this problem.
You mention us X factor junkies, well is it not a fact that outside the military if you dont do the work you dont get the pay? where is the difference?
as a parting thought, how would we have managed during the last firemans strike, if say 5% of the manpower thrown at it said 'sorry boss, no can do, kids to look after'. It may have been that even more property was distroyed.
This is not a sexist issue, with all the rules on equality the impact of this (questionably dodgy) court decision will apply equally to the guys out there.
Please try to remember that this case concerns a member of the UK Military which are called on 24/7/365. Sure, many other UK employers are happy to allow part time work or even jobshare but would you really want this in the Military. would you be prepared to foot the extra tax bill it would generate having maybe two persons employed for each post?
It may well be that this kind of event is very rare, but dont forget that if someone is unable to partake in a certain duty that requirement will not go away, so suddenly some poor manager is short of two members of his staff. we are all acutely aware of the current manning shortfalls in the military (overstretch?) so how would you suggest we overcome this problem.
You mention us X factor junkies, well is it not a fact that outside the military if you dont do the work you dont get the pay? where is the difference?
as a parting thought, how would we have managed during the last firemans strike, if say 5% of the manpower thrown at it said 'sorry boss, no can do, kids to look after'. It may have been that even more property was distroyed.
Right, that's it
Look, part of being in the military has always been that you have to be prepared to go anywhere at any time to do anything. We are NOT in a regular line of work despite some organisations and politicians efforts. We have a job to do with the minimum of people, old and crap equipment, and petty bureaucracy doing its best to hinder us.
It seems to me that there is an increasing number of people around who want the security of a 22 year engagement (or equivalent), wage paid if you're there or not, free medical / dental treatment, and pension etc, who also want to be able to work whatever hours they please, get out of which detachments they don't fancy going on, and basically rip off those of us who get on as best we can. In the last year alone I have personally been shafted with extra duties, had to cancel leave at short notice, and had to go on detachment at short notice because A Bloggs and his wife (who are a serving couple) couldn't find someone to mind the children while one was on nights, and because B Bloggs and HIS wife (both serving) couldn't get a sitter either. Am I being discriminated against because my wife is a housewife?
Quite frankly I am getting sick of people like this CPO taking the pi55 out of those of us who have to cover for them. I'm also getting sick of people like some here who say well done to these people for taking the MOD to tribunals and winning, because this is doing us all no favours at all. Managing situations like this is a nightmare. Yes, we do quite often get treated like crap, but at the end of the day we are all just numbers on a computer. Service life has never been conducive to a 'normal' existence.
Now I like my stability as much as the next person, but I recognise that the RAF has things to do, and if I'm the person they want, I go. I don't whinge my way out of things, but I do bloody resent having to pick up the pieces left by some chiseller.
Bottom line - if you want to choose your own hours, go work for Burger King.
That concludes the ranting.
It seems to me that there is an increasing number of people around who want the security of a 22 year engagement (or equivalent), wage paid if you're there or not, free medical / dental treatment, and pension etc, who also want to be able to work whatever hours they please, get out of which detachments they don't fancy going on, and basically rip off those of us who get on as best we can. In the last year alone I have personally been shafted with extra duties, had to cancel leave at short notice, and had to go on detachment at short notice because A Bloggs and his wife (who are a serving couple) couldn't find someone to mind the children while one was on nights, and because B Bloggs and HIS wife (both serving) couldn't get a sitter either. Am I being discriminated against because my wife is a housewife?
Quite frankly I am getting sick of people like this CPO taking the pi55 out of those of us who have to cover for them. I'm also getting sick of people like some here who say well done to these people for taking the MOD to tribunals and winning, because this is doing us all no favours at all. Managing situations like this is a nightmare. Yes, we do quite often get treated like crap, but at the end of the day we are all just numbers on a computer. Service life has never been conducive to a 'normal' existence.
Now I like my stability as much as the next person, but I recognise that the RAF has things to do, and if I'm the person they want, I go. I don't whinge my way out of things, but I do bloody resent having to pick up the pieces left by some chiseller.
Bottom line - if you want to choose your own hours, go work for Burger King.
That concludes the ranting.