25%+ cut in allowances!
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25%+ cut in allowances!
Not much detail on exactly what the cuts will involve but you can bet they're not morale positive!
Allowances for armed forces to be slashed - Telegraph
It is hard to argue about the specialist pay still being issued 3 or more years after leaving the qualifying post with possibly no chance (due to circumstances or intention) to ever perform those duties again. Just playing devil's advocate...
Allowances for armed forces to be slashed - Telegraph
It is hard to argue about the specialist pay still being issued 3 or more years after leaving the qualifying post with possibly no chance (due to circumstances or intention) to ever perform those duties again. Just playing devil's advocate...
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It is understood that the Chancellor, George Osborne was said to be "staggered" to learn that extra pay annually worth millions of pounds was paid to pilots who do not fly and submariners who no longer serve at sea.
"It is understood that the Shadow Chancellor, George Osborne was said to be "staggered" to learn that he had been caught, claiming £1,400 to cover the mortgage interest on his second home for October, when the limit had been cut to £1250 five months earlier."
There are tough, big decisions to be made at all levels right now - but on a personal level, he makes my skin crawl.
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MechGov, you could be right. It mentions in there that we don't need receipts; I thought that only applied to IE at £5 or under. I've certainly had to provide receipts for all my audited claims and we do seem to get audited regularly. If only the politicians had our system then they might have only 100 serious cases a year (bearing in mind this is across 180,000 military vs. 600+ politicians); people in glass houses etc?!
I think there probably is some fat to cut in the system but I find it hard to believe that there is that much "waste". It also talks about making us spend the money first then claim it back. That might be ok if you're on £60K plus but for some of us lesser mortals, a 3 week course or duty away from home can soon mount up. Could this result in refusals to undertake duties away due to financial hardship? Besides, even our advances system is still capped at what you can potentially claim and is then followed up or taken from pay if the duty is not completed.
Where do we think the cuts will be apart from spec pay and CEA?
I think there probably is some fat to cut in the system but I find it hard to believe that there is that much "waste". It also talks about making us spend the money first then claim it back. That might be ok if you're on £60K plus but for some of us lesser mortals, a 3 week course or duty away from home can soon mount up. Could this result in refusals to undertake duties away due to financial hardship? Besides, even our advances system is still capped at what you can potentially claim and is then followed up or taken from pay if the duty is not completed.
Where do we think the cuts will be apart from spec pay and CEA?
Sounds like branch pay should be looked at as an alternative to the "basic plus flying pay" system we have now. Flying pay is not there to make up for the hazards of the job. Its there because without it, staying past your 6 year return of service would be financialy irresponsible. You expect to pay someone with 15 years flying experience the same as an adminer just because you put them in a ground job against their will? You won't be paying them it for long I assure you.
Post SDSR the RAF does appear to have more aircrew than it knows what to do with at the moment, but the markets are picking up and 50% of pilots on my Sqn have ATPLs burning holes in their back pockets. The cost of flying pay will seem pretty insignificant when you start loosing airframes because no-one in the military has more than 1500hrs in their logbook.
Post SDSR the RAF does appear to have more aircrew than it knows what to do with at the moment, but the markets are picking up and 50% of pilots on my Sqn have ATPLs burning holes in their back pockets. The cost of flying pay will seem pretty insignificant when you start loosing airframes because no-one in the military has more than 1500hrs in their logbook.
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Arty, the other 50%, including myself, will be doing their ATPLs pretty fast if they cut our specialist pay, especially in flying related ground jobs. The bucket of sh*t has just become heavier than the bucket of gold as far as I am reading in the telegraph.
Interested to read on the recruiting section that lots of RYR guys are p*ssing off to the middle east at the moment. I wouldnt be surprised if a large number of service pilots werent joining them in the near future.
Interested to read on the recruiting section that lots of RYR guys are p*ssing off to the middle east at the moment. I wouldnt be surprised if a large number of service pilots werent joining them in the near future.
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I have heard that the personal contribution on HDT (Public) will be 9 miles to bring it into line with HDT (Private).
Cue many personnel demanding on-base SFA instead of one 15 miles away!
Cue many personnel demanding on-base SFA instead of one 15 miles away!
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Going to get interesting at Brize then when we all move across 
Interesting to see whe have been round this sticky wicket before:
Forces face pay cut but senior officers refuse to surrender rail perk - Telegraph
I agree with comments on a thread; if they are going to review expenses, they might as well review the whole pay structure and do away with specialist allowances. I would prefer a marginal cut in pay scale, say 5% than see the lot go just because my speciality is in demand in a flying related ground job.
Maybe that way we will get a pension on an expense we currently get taxed on.
Interesting to see whe have been round this sticky wicket before:
Forces face pay cut but senior officers refuse to surrender rail perk - Telegraph
I agree with comments on a thread; if they are going to review expenses, they might as well review the whole pay structure and do away with specialist allowances. I would prefer a marginal cut in pay scale, say 5% than see the lot go just because my speciality is in demand in a flying related ground job.
Maybe that way we will get a pension on an expense we currently get taxed on.
Last edited by VinRouge; 5th Dec 2010 at 00:51.
"Local Overseas Allowance, which is paid to troops serving abroad where the cost of living is more expensive than the UK, will also be reduced. In 2009/10 LOA cost the MoD £224m."
My understanding is that LOA is also paid to offset the fact that spouses are restricted or unable to obtain work.........
My understanding is that LOA is also paid to offset the fact that spouses are restricted or unable to obtain work.........
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The Government and the MOD must be very, very careful.
In the wake of upcoming redundancies, the civil airline market picking up and on-going operations in Afghanistan and other areas, Armed Forces morale is close to breaking point.
Slashing allowances may seem like a logical cost-saving measure but if you have to offset that with training 500 specialist officers and other ranks in each service (Aircrew, EOD Specialists, Submariners and Divers) that have left the service it looks like false economy.
I agree that specialist pay shouldn't be paid if you are in a job that doesn't require your specialisation - but that is why there is a graduated reduction. Aircrew don't choose not to fly! - Manning post them for Service needs or career progression.
If we lose HDT, CEA, Daily Subsistence etc then I fear that the Military Covenant will be well and truly broken.
How can we expect our personnel to pay out of their own pocket for the priveledge of serving overseas, attending training courses or carrying out additional duties?
Out of interest - what was the total amount of MPs allowances claimed in the first 3 months of this parliment? Perhaps the expenditure review should take in all public sector workers?
I often work PH, 18hr + days but don't get overtime! And my 'specialist' pay is taxable but non-pensionable
If you look at an SACs/Privates wages and divide their daily rate by 24 hrs does it actually reflect minimum wage?
In the wake of upcoming redundancies, the civil airline market picking up and on-going operations in Afghanistan and other areas, Armed Forces morale is close to breaking point.
Slashing allowances may seem like a logical cost-saving measure but if you have to offset that with training 500 specialist officers and other ranks in each service (Aircrew, EOD Specialists, Submariners and Divers) that have left the service it looks like false economy.
I agree that specialist pay shouldn't be paid if you are in a job that doesn't require your specialisation - but that is why there is a graduated reduction. Aircrew don't choose not to fly! - Manning post them for Service needs or career progression.
If we lose HDT, CEA, Daily Subsistence etc then I fear that the Military Covenant will be well and truly broken.
How can we expect our personnel to pay out of their own pocket for the priveledge of serving overseas, attending training courses or carrying out additional duties?
Out of interest - what was the total amount of MPs allowances claimed in the first 3 months of this parliment? Perhaps the expenditure review should take in all public sector workers?
I often work PH, 18hr + days but don't get overtime! And my 'specialist' pay is taxable but non-pensionable
If you look at an SACs/Privates wages and divide their daily rate by 24 hrs does it actually reflect minimum wage?
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Allowances
We already do have to pay for the privellage of going on a course.
If your lucky enough to get a hotel on a course, you get daily subsistance but should you be in the block or a mess then you have to pay for our food.
Why ?
Wrong !!!!
Dump CEA, reduce flying pay, end FRI (its only the ones staying taking it anyway) and overhaul the entire Bollo*ks 'Specialist' pay awards and we will probably save enough to not have to impact LOA, HDT etc.
If your lucky enough to get a hotel on a course, you get daily subsistance but should you be in the block or a mess then you have to pay for our food.
Why ?
Wrong !!!!
Dump CEA, reduce flying pay, end FRI (its only the ones staying taking it anyway) and overhaul the entire Bollo*ks 'Specialist' pay awards and we will probably save enough to not have to impact LOA, HDT etc.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
For those with less than 20 years, there was swinging cut in allowances then and it was handled particularly badly. Of course as soon as the dust started to settle so people took protective action - PVR was one, moving in or out of messes as appropriate was another.
PDQ there was a new package, the Get Well Package to heal the harm done.
PDQ there was a new package, the Get Well Package to heal the harm done.
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Excuse my ignorance but do civvies get an allowance for getting from home to work? If not then I'm sure that's on it's way. After all the mil (unlike civvies) do generally provide a place to live very near to the place of work.
Cut flying pay to those in flying posts and watch people walk. Okay, maybe not immediately, but many experienced people will have a change in mindset from "stay" to "what's out there". Then again that may be good to get the numbers down!
Cut flying pay to those in flying posts and watch people walk. Okay, maybe not immediately, but many experienced people will have a change in mindset from "stay" to "what's out there". Then again that may be good to get the numbers down!
Excuse my ignorance but do civvies get an allowance for getting from home to work?
Civilians above a certain grade are termed "mobile" and can be posted at 3 months notice anywhere in the UK. The only real difference to the Services is if they don't turn up they are deemed to have resigned instead of being declared AWOL. This is essentially what happened when, for example, AbbeyWood opened. Most lost a fortune, not least from spouses having to give up jobs and Bristol house prices rocketing as soon as MoD announced the move.
Also, one can reasonably be expected to travel up to 3 hours each way, each day, from a permanent duty station to a detached duty station, for up to 3 years, without being entitled to overnighters. At a permanent duty station, this reduces to, I think, 1.5 hours. That is, if you choose to live further away than a 1.5 hours each way commute, say from London to Bristol, you forfeit allowances. It is why so many civvies with very responsible jobs are on significant benefits. Not unlike many Servicemen I imagine.
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If FP goes from all but flying posts there it will literary will become 'danger money' as all the experience heads for the door leaving the young and the ex staff job lifers
For 40 odd years I have had to pay for the 'privilege' of spending nights/weeks away from my home base and family. On the odd occasion I spent a longer time away in some far flung foreign clime (Falklands etc) then I was lucky enough to receive some additional allowances etc. Vary rarely, if ever, was I in pocket except when single and on detachment with an imprest to cover all expenses.
I am now a civilian contractor doing exactly the same job (and at the same desk) as my last tour. Yes, I get paid less - no x factor - and there is no such thing as home to duty, but the company at least recognises that when I go away overnight (or longer) on landaways etc then some recompense is due to cover additional expenses, such as eating!
I am now a civilian contractor doing exactly the same job (and at the same desk) as my last tour. Yes, I get paid less - no x factor - and there is no such thing as home to duty, but the company at least recognises that when I go away overnight (or longer) on landaways etc then some recompense is due to cover additional expenses, such as eating!
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Drugsdontwork,
You are quite right, civvies don't get "home-to-duty", however, if a company moved you from one location to another for the benefit of said company, they would recompense associated costs and they certainly wouldn't expect you to take a pay cut (unless they are trying to get you to resign
, now there's a thought!). If you are posted to a non-flying post, in the interest of the service, the MOD cannot reasonably expect you to be financially worse off for doing so.
I am too old to provide the return of service for another OCU and am about to be posted to a non-flying, but "flying associated" post 200 miles away, for my last tour. Does the MOD/RAF expect me bare all the additional travel costs myself? I could move my family 200 miles with me, but is that really cost effective as they would have to provide me with the associated allowances (housing / disturbance / relocation etc).
It is easy to compare us with civvies and feel that we may be better off, but you need compare us with civvies who are being asked to move etc, due to the requirements of the company they work for.
For me personally, screwing around with the allowances that are paid in recompense for the costs incurred due to the requirements of the service, will be the final nail in the coffin. Sad really, it is not how I imagined I would be feeling in the last few years of service, having joined in 1977.
You are quite right, civvies don't get "home-to-duty", however, if a company moved you from one location to another for the benefit of said company, they would recompense associated costs and they certainly wouldn't expect you to take a pay cut (unless they are trying to get you to resign
, now there's a thought!). If you are posted to a non-flying post, in the interest of the service, the MOD cannot reasonably expect you to be financially worse off for doing so. I am too old to provide the return of service for another OCU and am about to be posted to a non-flying, but "flying associated" post 200 miles away, for my last tour. Does the MOD/RAF expect me bare all the additional travel costs myself? I could move my family 200 miles with me, but is that really cost effective as they would have to provide me with the associated allowances (housing / disturbance / relocation etc).
It is easy to compare us with civvies and feel that we may be better off, but you need compare us with civvies who are being asked to move etc, due to the requirements of the company they work for.
For me personally, screwing around with the allowances that are paid in recompense for the costs incurred due to the requirements of the service, will be the final nail in the coffin. Sad really, it is not how I imagined I would be feeling in the last few years of service, having joined in 1977.
For 40 odd years I have had to pay for the 'privilege' of spending nights/weeks away from my home base and family.
Whilst I only did 8 years, I never ever paid for subsistence or accomodation when away from base (Odi, Gut and Finn). I accept that I went to the bar more often than i would at home, so more on booze than when at home. Why were you stung?
CG
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Re post 17
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^this^^^^^^^^^^
A colleague and myself once spent 3 days getting to Suda Bay via RAF AT, all we had to eat were some croissants and blagged mini mars/marathon bars from a fuel stop.
No card/money from home base.
The AT crew eventually felt sorry for us and quite literally gave us their burnt/wasted rations from their own galley.
And I'm not making this up.
A colleague and myself once spent 3 days getting to Suda Bay via RAF AT, all we had to eat were some croissants and blagged mini mars/marathon bars from a fuel stop.
No card/money from home base.
The AT crew eventually felt sorry for us and quite literally gave us their burnt/wasted rations from their own galley.
And I'm not making this up.