Would STRONGLY advise that you read all the above posts and think long and hard about leaving what you have and coming here. People are not writing this stuff because they have nothing else to do:ugh:

Besides the guy in Manchester, there are numerous other pilots who have had their career ruined by Emirates. When i interviewed, i asked hr about the various concerns of pilots about the T&Cs. Human Resources response was that it was just a vocal minority and not to believe everything you read on these sites. After speaking with numerous pilots who started class last year, most were disappointed with their decision and some even quit. It made my decision so much easier since i value happiness over flying a heavy jet internationally. Unfortunately, most that decide to leave do not have a job to go back home to. Some are having marriage difficulties and others are barely surviving going further into debt. I also have a former colleague who just walked away from Emirates and did not even consider going back. He posts on here and mentioned that his life was more important than a job. He is presently unemployed, but happy.

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Does anyone know for sure how many actually turned down the employment offer?

Moderator, please...
 

What a bunch of crap, again. Now that EK is finally hiring again, what for the poolies should be the glory, we see these brainless maniacs spreading so many stupidities.

How come you can ever consider an FO with children, flying for EK, has any financial issue caused by low payment or high costs at Dubai? That's a big lie.
Ok that costs are higher anywhere and we have to put a little more here and there, but to the point we are unable to save any? Someone talked about raising debts or leaving Dubai after years with no money. Are you nuts?

The caps for the electricity and water are more than fair. A regular family, using it with responsibility will never get to worry. These guys that are complaining are those who maintain 24/7 fountains, swimming pools or water their gardens permanently beside leaving their Air Conditioning on for hours when there's nobody home.

T&Cs are downhill everywhere in the world. EK is hiring in the middle of the crisis.
You are ungratiful bastards that are still flying because company found the way to keep you flying. Ungratiful I say again.

This topic regards to the Holding Pool and the perspective of being hired. Moderator, please check on the guys telling poolies not to come based on lies and overreaction. This is past advise and providing information: WARNINGS have been issued. This is ridiculous.

Poolies, I hope no one makes decision based on what's written here. IT DOES NOT REFLECT THE DAILY REALITY OF FLYING FOR EMIRATES.

Find someone you thrust that is working for EK(Hope your contact is not one of these losers) to get proper guidance.

Emirates was better, but it's still the best.

cosmo (or should we assume CaptAmerica, or EGT?)

you just provided the best and most vivid proof of EK managment procedures.

Go ahead guys, jump on the bandwagon of well orchestrated smokes and mirrors.
I do agree though that you might not want to believe some rant around here.
My best advice is, buy a cheap ticket, come to the sandpit and talk to us, the guys from the line, make your own assessment.

(When you finally got the real picture, ask cosmo via pm to meet up in a nice bar and try not to break his face.)

Cosmodrift,

Unfortunately, you are the "maniac" here my friend.

All I can say is that wherever you were working before EK must have been a living hell. If you can seriously say that "EK was better, but it's still the best", then you are completely delussional.

And to call everyone else who is pis*ed off having their Ts & Cs degraded by Emirates "ungreatful bastards". Not too many people share your views that we are ungreatful, you belong in the office, not in the cockpit.

I on the other hand give warning to all of the "poolies", and say that Emirates has become, and is in fact the WORST employer that I have worked for. The bottom line is that they simply don't give a !!!!! about the pilots or their families.

Be very, very careful who you choose to believe. Talk to your friends working here and get the real truth. Don't bother with the Recruitment team as they will lie through their teeth to suck you in.

I will be leaving in the coming months.

Good luck to all of you, and hope you make the right decision.

Cosmodrift, either you cannot read or you cannot understand. Either way, what YOU write is absolute bullcr@p! Lots of colleagues have warned you and other wannabees, but you don´t wanna listen :ugh:
What is so difficult to understand??? EK was a great airline to work for, and I was more than proud to be a part of it. Now it is just a sad shadow of its former glory and I am ashamed of what is is now. People don´t write here because they don´t have better things to do, no, they write here to warn people like YOU! People who don´t want to listen to very valid complaints!!
So stuff your insults somewhere where the sun doesn´t shine and stop posting such a cr@p. You don´t know it better, but we do. And we say: STAY AWAY IF YOU CAN!!!

new hires
 

..and if you do accept the job, uproot your family and move to Dubai, Great!! But 6 months from now when you find out that it wasn't just a vocal minority making alot of noise and you want to complain (in your winiest voice) about how bad things are, and how things are getting worse, and the company is being unfair, and the family is unhappy in the 2 bed temp apt blah blah blah...keep your F*&^%$G mouth shut ! I don't care and neither does anyone else who warned you. Welcome aboard!!!

I have been here 10 + years and loved it for the first 4 years but that company is gone replaced by a leaner and much meaner shadow of its former self. I used to be the greatest recruiter for this company but sadly not anymore.

I will repeat what has been said here already. If you have a family,

DO NOT LEAVE A DECENT JOB TO COME HERE!

Reality
 

Hello this is Mrs Fatigued who does the accounts for the 'Fatigued Family' for the past 10+ years. Be under no disillusion when my husband moved to the pit we slowly sold our investment properties as we couldn't prop up the mortgage repayments. We couldn't afford proper food, life was substandard vege with mince and chicken. One of our boys has 'boobs' from the hormones in the chicken. The cost of living is a lot more now and with 5 to 6 years to command believe me a family will not survive on an F/O salary.
The utilities cap is off by minimum of $7,000 to $14,000 for a villa.
If you get a new villa you will get a sand pit that needs landscaping more $$$ and watering...:eek:

Cost of living has gone up dramatically in the last 10 years if you give up any decent life to move to the pit will have far more reaching costs than just the $$$ each month out of your salary. As said above posts if you are unemployed its a no brainer Emirates is a job, otherwise think carefully.

When the sh** hits the fan the company will not support you. Our family has nearly been ripped apart over the years even though my husband has gone beyond his call of duty.

Wives thinking of relocating be warned if you ever flounder there will always be a kind cabin crew member willing to cater to any of your husband's needs. They do not care if the said pilot is married with kid's. Any cracks in your relationship will be blown wide open with no support for either party from the company. These are not bitter words as some how we came out the other end of the 'Emirates' experience. My father-in-law always reminded me keep your friends close but keep your enemies closer. That is what I have done and made sure I know exactly what is going on. It is enough to break your heart, what has happened to some beautiful families in this place.

When family is ill or dying you will have to get back the best way you can if you have already used your annual leave ticket. Which usually means they are happy to drag you to the pit but hard luck getting back home in an emergency.

I have wanted to post for the longest time but thought why bother until I read the earlier post by cosmodrift which is the biggest load of garbage ever.

Our only objective everyday is to one day leave the pit with all of us still alive and a family unit. We will never be rich but we have each other.

If that is really the case, then I'm sorry but your accounting skills suck. If you need to warn people off coming to EK, then please state where the company is f***ing up (plenty of it ) not where you are.

Don't get me wrong -I agree with most that has been written (except cosmo's drivel) All those who are interested in coming to EK and already have a decent job - stay put.

Cosmodrift. Are you in touch with reality pal???? An interesting rant. Are you on those funny pills?

EGGW

Interestingly enough Cosmo, i worked with a nice American DEC the other day and he mentioned reading all the negative posts on PPRUNE prior to gettting hired and thinking...well those guys must be a very unhappy minority and it can't possibly be that bad. 12 months later and he said i wish i had paid more attention to what was written, cause 90% of it's true, and it really can be that bad.

Doesn't take long to figure it out once you are over here. Still better than being unemployed..but only just.

scam
 

another scam:
this year's message to all staff:
Chairman's Officehttps://groupworld.emirates.com/exch...g/clear1x1.gif .............While it might seem the fruits of our extraordinary grit and determination, hard work and improved efficiencies will go unrewarded, I would like you to consider this: we have managed to retain everyone, while others are slashing staff numbers; we have dramatically increased travel benefits for you and your extended family; we continue to invest in training and development,.......

how does it come my staff travel ticket to Europe has increased by 35 % ? :D

Yeah, and you noticed how no target for next year announced. They just wanna make sure that its not set too low (indicitave of the current climate) in case things turn around and they have to pay out a lot of cash come next March.

They take the "let see what happens" approach so that if there is an uptick in economic activity...then they set another unrealistic target. :mad:

The message to the poolies is pretty clear,still all this hell broke through after recruiting started.Before there was all this posts,but not that bad.

Brutal around here!
 

FWIW, I've declined the 777 class in August due to personal reasons.

I have a good friend who's been at EK for the past year. He had some headaches with housing and tells me that management does mislead quite a bit, actually he said flat out lies to ya, but he is not that upset about being at EK. He said he'd go again knowing what he knows now.

I've been in contact with HR a bit and they seem to be awfully nice, at least the person that I am dealing with.

Again, I'm not flying for them so I can't speak from experience, but they do seem to be getting just thrashed right now, not sure that it is all warranted or not.

I never said EK was flawless. My other posts are there.
The fact is those who are complaining so viciously got tired of their lives here.
They are tired of being expats and not being able to do things they did in the past, back at their former homes.
That’s personal. Nothing to do with Emirates.

I am still happy here because, in spite of recent degradation on T&C and general problems of the city, I can still do things I love.
I can bid for rosters I like and even flying more hours I still can stay a lot with my family.
I feel safe when going out with my family and I am saving money.
I see friends afraid of losing their jobs at Singapore, India and others already unemployed.
After a long time they are finally fixing the housing problems and pilots are moving to their permanent houses.

I feel sorry for this training FO that was fired, but this kind of injustice is not a privilege issue to EK. It became a mark here when in others companies something like that is so recurrent that looks like a policy.

Try to live more of your day. One moment at a time. Realize what’s going on in the world around you and you’ll see how bad things really are out there.
To open fire against who is paying your salary will lead you to nothing, specially if you have no other options.

cosmodrift!!!
 

I've only just seen this thread. I'm too busy flying to spend time on my computer!

I've never seen morale so low since my time in Emirates. HR have turned into an embarressment to themselves.

The DEWA allowance does not cover a families needs even when really trying hard to economise. With no 3 percent, no payrise, no school fees allowance increase this is now the straw to break the camel's back!

For an FO with family in a villa you WILL NOT save. After setting up your new home here you will steadily find yourself digging forever deeper into your pockets to stay afloat.

It was a great job however it has taken a sharp and distinct dive in terms of financial stability & job satisfaction. However so has much of the world. This is a one way situation that will no doubt not change when the world economy turns.

I would never tell someone to not come however to be fortold is to be forwarned

Cosmo,
don´t tell me or others what we are or how we feel. You have no clue! It is not about being tired of being an expat. that is rubbish. I enjoy being an expat and I don´t want to go back home.
This whole tread is about eroding conditions, breaches of contracts and outright lies by EK. We tell EK wannabees what is going on here, how we are treated since about 2 or 3 years. If you are happy, fine! Wait another year or so, and that might change. Just because you are so happy here doesn´t mean that EK has the right to breach contracts. And just because your former job might have been a lot worse than this one now doesn´t mean that this here is great anymore. It could be, but EK chose to alienate most of its pilot (and cabin!) workforce for no apparent reason. That is a fact and it should be known to applicants!

Quick Question
 

Hi guys,

I'm way too lazy to keep searching and I've spent the last half hour trying...

Both my buddy and I have been offered EK class dates this fall. I've declined mine for now and he is debating the same thing. Can anyone answer a quick question or two?

1) It appears that if you fly approx 90 hours as an FO you'd end up around $7,200 a month. Does that increase every year with longevity or anything?

2) I remember reading something about a pay bump every year but that might have been profit sharing, not sure. Anyone give me a realistic expectation of take home salary every year as an FO and whether or not it changes.

No need to tell me to search, just if anyone has a couple quick answers, great, if not, no big deal.

Thanks!

Check the Emirates Group Careers site for starting salary details. You receive 45 AED per hour up to 92 hours before overtime is triggered (on average).

The 3% seems to be at their discretion. We did not receive it this year.

Terms
 

3 percent didn't happen this year! No pay increase. You will now need to pay money towards your utility bill. The cost of living here has gone up immensely. Inflation is onits way up.
At this time of year the shops tend to put up their prices when most families go home...probably so you don't notice is so much when you get back.

The shops in the malls have put their prices up to counteract the fewer shoppers spending. Why should they lose out because of a credit crunch???!!**

90 hours is a lot of hours and quite a few people are close to that each month. & fatigued.

Lots of night flying. A roster bidding system that is largely uncontrollable.

If you are offered the Boeing maybe it's worth it for the rating and the time. As for the Airbus stay where you are (unless it's the A380 where you won't make money because you won't be flying much).

The contract is not worth the paper it's written on. You will be an expat and treated as such.

Thanks...
 

Thanks for the headsup. The Emirates Career website is where I came up with the $7,200 per month number.

No offense to anyone, but that just does not seem like a lot... and it seems from your reply that if you're a 5 year FO you're still making the same number unless they choose to give you a raise?

That's $86,000 a year.... for living in Dubai? Yikes!

Please let me know if I'm missing anything!

Fullboat, that's because it ain't a lot. In my first years in the Sandpit on a basic FO's salary, we survived only because I didn't spend most of my allowances and cashed them in to cover the bills. (How boring is that?) From what I can see, the FOs of today, (or those with school aged children at least) are doing it tougher now than it was for my generation of FOs. If you're single, it's another matter altogether.

Mate, your question is completely irrelevant....

You just openly stated that you have turned down the course, so if you think that in the current climate you will be given another, you are very much mistaken. We are taking 48 new hires this financial year, 32 invites have gone out, there are around 100 in the pool, so your invite has gone to the next down the list, so... tough titties my friend, even if you did find the package appealing (unlikely) then too bad, you've missed out for a couple of years at least!

Maybe you should have done this sort of 'research' before you came for interview??

Incidentally, this is the first year ever the 3% hasn't been paid. Currently a 4 year F/O is on a basic of circa 25,500 dhs per month ($7000) plus flight pay 4000 dhs for 90 hours ($1100). About $95,000 per year..... I don't see that as being too distressing compared to a US CRJ regional CAPTAIN who will be working harder and earning less (just a wild guess:E)

It all depends, where you come from. But you have to look at the package.
With that salary you'd probably be in the 28% tax bracket, right? So you are already on a salary of $110'000. (Don't know if you can avoid US tax though. But that is more a US than an EK problem). Health insurance is paid for and as well housing (if you happen to get a villa...). Even after the last management stunt, most of utilities (cooking gas, elec, water) are are paid as well. For us, cost of living is by far lower then back home. But then again... It all depends on where you come from.
I am on an FO salary and we as a family make a decent living from that wage. Could it be better? Sure it could!
Check what you have in hand and compare. But compare the packages and not just the bare salary stated. The $7200 are "spending money" for me.
Take the $7200 and start adding what you would spend back home for what you get here (no, it's not for free, it's part of the package!!) ($7200+$2000[tax]+.....[housing]+.....[utilities].......)

Don't take me wrong. I am not promoting EK at all. But I think it is worth looking at the full picture and nt only on the shiny new aeroplanes on the one side or the bitching on the other side.
If you are American and love your unionised environment... you'll be at the wrong end here in the sand.

Hope that helps

We don't know the circumstances surrounding him turning down the course, EK often allows delaying a course.

Why quote a 4 year F/O's starting salary, and then compare it to a US Regional Captain, which many might consider irrelevant.

I would prefer being an RJ Captain versus an EK F/O, excluding everything other than job profile, salary, and location location location. The big kicker is the long term prospects and job security, which might not be very good for an RJ dude. It is likely that the long term prospects for an EK F/O are not so good either.

To clarify a few points, if a person comes here with a wife (and even moreso with kids), you will struggle financially until you upgrade to Captain. For new joiners, they will likely not upgrade to Captain for 5 years, and considering the accelerating decline of our disposable income and T&C's it will likely take a year or two at a Captain's salary to be where you would have been had you stayed home. 7 years in the sandpit is a long time!

It is a trap when you come to EK nowadays. You sign on the dotted line, make the big move and then later realize you have just limited all your other options for the next 5 years in your flying career. When reality hits, which can take as short as a few months or up to a few years, it is too late in either case.

I cannot understand the mentality of anyone considering coming to DXB nowadays. The only exclusion to that, are pilots out of work and having no other means to support themselves. It is truly THAT pathetic here, and this is from someone who used to be a big EK supporter.

Don't believe one word that EK spouts to you or shows on their website. EK has one of the unhappiest group of pilots I have ever worked with...... in spite of the fact the company MADE a 400M $ profit. Just wait till they start losing money !

Not quite true. In 2003 (or was it 2004?), all EK staff got a 5% pay rise. So did the pilots - the same 5% rise as everyone else, which you could either call a 2% payrise plus the contractural 3% increment, or we got the whole 5% as did everyone else, but no increment.

I believe he was asking the question for the benefit
of his friend, who also has a invite , Oblaaspop.

Maybe you need to call it a day. :oh:

Just need a little professional opinion
 

Got an offer for a 777 class. Have a job making descent money right now flying NG's. What's the consensus on the offer? Go or No Go decision? Everything I am reading is bad news. Is there anything out there that is positive about the place. Have to make a decision between current job making approx. 145K tax free a year with the same benefits as Emirates but living in Saudi Arabia or take Emirates offer flying heavies for first year FO pay. Sounds like a stupid question but hoping for a positive outlook.

Thanks.

There is one in every group isn't there?

Oblaaspop, I very much appreciated your warm and friendly reply. Lemme see if I can clarify a few things for you their 'mate.' First, I'm pretty sure I mentioned I was asking for a friend of mine who has a class date in September. Let me reread my post, yep, sure did. So I find my question pretty relevant.

Point number two. I turned down EK's August class offer because I'm getting married in September. Traveling half way around the world, with my 30 best 'mates' to do it, so jumping into groundschool for the 777 probably wouldn't work.

Subpoint number two dot one. I spoke with the EK hiring department and they have offered to put me in the October Airbus class if they run it. They seem to be a very agreeable sort there in HR, surprising from what I read on these boards.

Point number three. I'm not feeling like my 'titties' have missed out on anything, nor will they, from what I read on the boards here. But I do thank you for your obvious genuine concern.

Point number four. I did do the research when I came out for the interview a year ago. I then filed that information is the "hope to remember.exe" file which obviously is corrupt, hence my questions. But yeah, at some point it was important to me and I knew it.

Point number five. It appears like you believe me to be an RJ captain in the US. Somedays I wish I were, but I'm over here in the sandbox working for a different company that pays about 20% more than the numbers you are quoting...with some pros (and a few cons might I add) over EK.

I hereby apologize to everyone on pprune for wasting valuable electrons trying to get a simple answer to a simple question. I also apologize if I offended anyone by saying 'only' $86,000 for living in Dubai. I was under the impression that Dubai was expensive. Most of all, I want to apologize for any mates that got their titties bent out of shape from my irrelevant queries. I will endeavor to do better.

Mensaboy, thanks for backstop.
And actually, Oblaaspop, thanks for answering my question at the end of your post...coulda done without the first 80% of it though ;0)

I am soooooo outa here!

Surfa, I think everything that has either been reduced or taken away,
or how they will handle (read sack) you if you make a mistake
has been covered at least 3 times now.

Only you can add up your list of pros and cons that apply
to your personal situation.

You must choose............choose wisely:)

Just to add to the debate about rj captain versus EK FO...

When i interviewed last year, i was working as an erj captain who also was a check airman. At the time of my interview, i was making approximately $100k per year and living in base. I was content with my job but emirates offered an exciting lifestyle for both my wife and kids. I was in the pool hoping to get a call for a class. I waited and waited like the other poolies just dreaming about a chance to work at emirates. Then came the delay in aircraft orders, the meltdown of the global economy, and the debacle of the dubai economy. As the weeks turned into months, i started realizing that emirates did not view me as a viable candidate for a class for the simple fact that i flew erjs even though i was the only person that was hired from my group that included boeing and airbus guys. Simply, you are qualified but not as much as others.

I was also in the pool for JetBlue. I started class at JetBlue and have not looked back. I listed pros and cons for both emirates and jetblue. I think they both are excellent jobs but it came down to a simple decision: where would i be happier? Where would i be valued as an employee? Where would i want to retire at?

Lastly, i came to a decision based on my family needs. I could always find another job, but i can not find another wife and kids. I also thought about if i was layed off or terminated for any reason, i could always get unemployment in the states and survive for the foreseable future. In Dubai, i have to find a means to pay off my debt so that i dont have to go to jail, ship my goods, and get my family out as soon as possible. I will always be able to contest my termination such that the company is bounded by legality.

During airport appreciation time, i have chased down emirate crews to get their perspectives at jfk. To my amusement, they have all advised me (with the exception of a local emirati) to not make the move to dubai if i am happy with my current job.

Surfa, if you are making decent money at your current job, then why would you want to make less at a company that continuously changes rules, does not respect you as an employee, and subjecates you to disciplinary action without objection. Everyone wants to roll the dice and gamble with their futures. At the end, i am not a gambler.

fb

My guess? After reading Surfa's last post, despite everything he's read here, he will come.

Fullboat 2

Most EK pilots will think that you made one sound and another risky decision here. Up to you to guess which is which ...

An "offer" and a "if" by EK! lol.
Not even a written contract is valued by these guys, so simply imagine what the above's worth ....

Agree with that. Just consider them like "spokesmen" of governements or big companies. These people are trained in rhethorics, reading prepared statements and making a presentable impression. Not a clue though about reality in the company.

If you are what you pretend, then you should definitely know better.

To all the poolies, very sorry for the pessimistic news and reports. Rants and complaints are a integral part of pilots lives, I know. What is different here, is that we are warning everybody about something that is simply unaccepatable:

Breach of contract and no legal recourse.

That makes you basically a slave, well payed, but you are at the unconditional mercy of the employer. He can pay you as he likes, fire you when he wants and freeze your assets in his country at his will.
When the industry roars, it's fine, you can leave without remorse and because they know, they treat you ok. When however the crisis hits like now, they know you run out of options and they exploit it mercilessly. You end up trapped, as most of us with kids, houses, bonds etc. end completely exposed to their arbitrary society.

the beating continues
 

They GROUNDED another 2 pilots who were being MARSHALLED into a gate when they touched the jetty with one of their engines. They were under marshaller authority when this happened !!!

COME ON EK, what's next ???? :ugh: :ugh: :ugh: :ugh: :ugh: :ugh:

I think anyone eager to join this s(t)inking ship should know it by know what he is getting himself and his family into. And don't tell us we didn't warn you.

Until morale improves, the beating will continue. :yuk: :yuk::yuk: :yuk:

Quote
"Having been removed from the roster to facilitate the investigation, the crew have now returned to normal duty."

As were the crew that had a cargo fire warning a while back. The sky is not falling. Don't create a panic.:=

Isn't it normal when someone has an incident to be removed from duty pending the results of an investigation be it here or any other airline?:cool:

completely normal IMHO. Not a big fan of EK management style and safety (fear) culture. But this is normal ops in any major airline.

Pool, don't get me started about getting married ;0) Talk about a debacle in the making!

For the life of me I don't understand why everyone is so skeptical around here, or secretive for that matter, I am not pretending to be anyone. I'm a lowly 737 FO flying here in the ME like the rest of us. For some reason I'm hesitant to say where I fly, but suffice it to say, it is the largest chuck of sand around with by far the most oil. Of course it is also the most restrictive of the Kingdoms around too.....

Having read all this EK bashing I have to admit I'm very concerned about coming over there and no longer anticipate doing so, although if things go sideways here I may. Doubtful though.

Good luck to everyone over there at EK. I wish everyone the best!

Sorry Fullboat, must have been squinting and missed the bit about enquiring about a friend (although not blindingly obvious - BTW is he not capable of using a computer?). Anyway, I'll take the hit, my bad......

I must say though, they would have to pay me a darn sight more than 20% extra to work in KSA:yuk:

As another point for some of the other harbingers of doom on this esteemed forum, I completely fail to see how what EK pay, means that F/O's are on the bread line. Yes Dubai has become expensive, but if you don't have to send loads of money back home, MOST of what you earn is spending money.

Guys, instead of jumping on a bandwagon, why don't you back up your rhetoric with facts ie income vs STATUTORY outgoings like you would have in your previous life. I've stated facts and figures before, why don't others do the same??

Newbie, out of interest, I presume the $100k you were earning as a check airman back home was subject to tax? I also presume your previous employer didn't pay for your house etc? Therefore I will presume you would be financially much better off at EK? Not having a pop, but these are the sorts of things we all need to be reminded of from time to time........ (Just to be sure I stated FINANCIALLY better off, not emotionally!!)