So, i'd like to know what the guys from the hold pool, who still have the choice whether or not to join are thinking regards to EK's latest and greatest policy???

65% growth between now and 2018( not a double), that does not upgrade those that are at EK already

@ 700 upgrades 1100 capt now = 1800 call it 1900 with some movement, 2300 pilots right now, sorry but thats the math.

If you still come to EK dont start whinging the day you get to the line

That's a fact.
 

Those willing to come will have to balance and explore the positive side of being a First Officer for a long time. That are good things about it, of course. The money could be still good depending on your standards and could be higher than many countries are paying to a captain.
I would not maintain any expectation to upgrade right now, because that would lead only to frustrations.

So, realistically what would you propose as a realistic expectation for upgrading on 777 and Airbus?

Well, Kashima, I don't know. Fatbus gave a rough idea I couldn't say it looks far from what to expect.

To come here, depending on your current situation(no job, bad job, really underpaid), is an upgrade already. It's a safe job. It may take a while as an FO, but you have a career, a number and still good benefits. Many I know are been fired from Asian companies after their contracts are expired, no matter they are excellent pilots and have a family to support.

It's true there's a DEC problem here, what sucks for an FO, but it's also true that many pilots leave when situation becomes better at home.

Anyway, upgrade time is not a good point at EK at this time.

EK Last Upgrade Policy
 

Command Upgrade

The Company criteria for command upgrade are as follows:
• A minimum of 36 months in Emirates.
• 6,000 hours total time.
• 4,000 hard hours.
• 12 months on type from the commencement of line training.
• Satisfactory completion of the Command Assessment Program.
• Command opportunities are offered to First Officers who meet the above requirements and have achieved satisfactory performance reviews.

Please note that 36 months is the minimum time to command. With expected delays in aircraft demands and changing demands from Fleet, the time to command is expected to be over three years.

Given the fact that Emirates will need somewhere in the region of 700 Captains between now and 2018, provided there are no further delays or cancelations of aircraft orders. Also provided there are NO more DEC's (yeah right).

If NO more F/O's were hired between now and 2018, there would still be 4-500 F/O's who are on the current seniority list waiting for upgrade to Captain in roughly 10 years from now.

Based on these numbers, any F/O joining EK now will likely be waiting 15 years. 15 years based on the company expanding as planned and no further world economic crisis, flu pandemic, terrorism, war etc, etc.

With all of the current contract and COS degradations the package is no longer good enough to spend this amount of time in the right seat living in a third/fourth world country.

The biggest drawcard of Emirates has, and will always be a "first officer fast tracking his career". Another drawcard which no longer exists.

There are other opportunities around.

cosmodrift got it wrong (again)
 

He should read the cr@p in the FCI again. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

He intentionally didn't mention the most important one : minimum 3000 hrs hard time on EK TYPE. For guys with only <55T time: they will need 4000 hrs hard time on EK type. Not in the bunk, not in the sim but stick time on the T7 or 330(340).

When has cosmodrift got it right??

5star
 

I think I have made very clear (for those who aren't retarded like you) upgrades at EK are to take a very long time right now.
Why don't you read the previous posts before open this big mouth of yours? :=
PS: Same applies to your new boyfriend above.

Guess the truth hurts eh Cosmo?

A large percentage of your posts has suggested that EK is the best place in the world to come. Sorry, but you seem to be the only one to share that view.

You are clearly in a world of your own, and either can't accept the truth of what's going on here, or the sad reality of your life to this point is that EK is the best thing you have experienced.

Overall you sound like a very sad little man, or woman from HR.

Guys, please cut down the personal attacks. If you disagree fine, but less of the personal stuff, no matter how much you dislike a poster. :ugh::ugh:

EGGW

CAVnotOK
 

For some, maybe.

The posts are there to review. There you are going to find good and bad things I mentioned about EK. If after reading them this is the label you got for me, so you interpretation is lame, what makes me doubt of other arguments you may bring to this discussion.

If I am the only one, I am not sharing, am I? I do not represent no group. I stick to facts and have no problems on revising my statements if needed.

Thanks God I am. And I am very happy I am not in yours.

Of course I do. I am Brian, or should be Helena? And if I am, I make more money than you, I have more power than you and I am having a great time messing with you right now. So, who is the envy sad little man after all?

For anyone coming in now as a DEC, I hope that you check out the requirements as they are now, and meet them. .

These requirements now are:-
1) A minimum of 10,000 hours Total Time prior to joining Emirates.
��
2) A minimum of 4,000 hours Hard Time.
��
3) A minimum of 3,000 hours Command Experience on EK aircraft type or minimum of 1,500 hours on EK aircraft type and 1,500 on a commercial aircraft with MTOW greater than 55 tonne, and current within 12 months before joining Emirates and holding a valid type and instrument rating.
��
4) Preference will be given to type rated A330/A340/A380 or B777 & instructors.
��
5) Valid ICAO ATPL.
��
6) Must join before 56th birthday.

The above is posted merely for information. I don't know if they will hold you to it if you already have an offer, but I would make very sure that the rug is not pulled out from under your feet when you get here.

Hey guys for your info,

Was told today at the first officer meeting that there are 16 aircraft deliveries this financial year, 36 command upgrades this financial year, as of the next financial year ie.2010-2011..NO UPGRADES and NO DELIVERIES!!

Just wanted to share that for those thinking of making the hop over!!

Consider this too:*

......
Clark said he sees EK operating around 163 aircraft in three years, "and we have to consider the 58 aircraft we have to retire, including the A330-200, A340-300 and 777-200/-300 classics."

It sucks, but...
 

Considering this tread is for the poolies, and obviously the poolies are looking for a new job, maybe these questions apply:

How long it would take to become a Captain if someone joins, for example, American Airlines today? Or United? Or BA?
And in which aircraft would you be promoted?

Lots of white heads on the right seat over there, as I recall.

If you are coming, forget about upgrade in the short term. That's not a selling point now. However, in a long term...

Remember few companies, in a restricted hiring universe, offers you a career, a number. Many hire for a pre-established contract which means they hire an FO to do an FO job until they let you go. Or, there are many others that make you believe they are going to promote you and when the time come, they don't. Not mentioning companies that are making efforts to get rid of all expats.

EK is the company that upgraded more expatriated pilots ever. PERIOD.
To blame the company now because the waiting will be much longer, ignoring everything that is going on in the aviation industry nowadays is to be, to say the minimum, unfair or selfish.

Cosmo, EK has obviously worked for you and we can all hear it. But the notion of comparing EK to AA or United, BA is just not a fair comparison and it drives me when i hear it. Do AA, United or BA hire Direct Entry Captains like yourself ? Not a chance.

Do they provide law's safeguarding us here, a sense of community, is there any heart to this place? Can you feel the love next time you drive down SZR? People come here for an accelerated program for faster career progression and extra compensation for the sacrifice. And we deserve every last dollar and more...believe it !

So why would people come now? What is the selling point? Job security I guess only because the rest of the world is in a tight spot. I came for a quick upgrade along with about 2000 other pilots in the last 15 years. If the rules have changed then the decision is different.

I don't regret coming and am happy with my decision but let's not glorify the story. Many people in the right seat would be more than happy staying where they are living in a free society, trusting others, backed by laws, living in cleaner air, and not having to watch their back at every decision.

Inconsistent and contradictory statements...
 

I am not a shrink or a DEC and the matter explored was time to promotion. Just time to promotion. So, in this particular matter, the comparison applies.

Give me a break. You are here because you have not a better option, or you are too coward to sell groceries back home. Don't blame the environment for your own decisions. Beside, you don't say "People do...". Speak for yourself.

I'm going to be sick after this one.:ooh:

You answered your own question. That might be one obvious reason.
Other people can also find a good life here, specially if you don't get yourself 100% fixed on the bad side. Anyway all of us are here because we are volunteers. Nobody is pointing you no gun to stay.

Man, I have no clue what part of the world(or time in history) retaining all these qualities you are referring to. But I believe you think all the poolies come from that beautiful place and they have great jobs there.

You seem to be lost in your own little shisha world. Why don't you compare expat airlines to expat airlines, so your arguement is relevant. We are still 30% short of CX in pay and benefits, and that's B scale. How many mainline AA, BA, UAL pilots do we have here? Anybody, anybody? Nope, didn't think so...wait a minute, maybe a couple DEC's on the double dip, good for them.

People are here because they had no better option or thought it might be a good opportunity for a quick command and a good experience. Fair enough, and most of us try to make the best of it but don't try to sell this place like some kind of windfall best job in the world. Aviation as a whole is in trouble, and this is currently a good place to hid. If it ever comes back in a positive way, we'll see how many of us stick around. This place could give a rats A@@ about any of us....including you.

I get it now, you are one of those from a crappy Asian airline as an FO where you couldn't look up without permission. No wonder you love this place so much. And if others are in the same position, then I guess it is a much better opportunity. To each his own.

If they are that unhappy then perhaps they should leave - nobody is pointing a gun at you to make you stay.

Many people enjoy the lifestyle here in the UAE but it isn't for everyone. If you dislike hot weather and sand and want democracy, human rights, green fields and walks though country meadows then you really do have to ask yourself why they moved to a city in the middle of the desert in the first place. :ugh:

Life's too short to sit whinging on PPrune - if it isn't working out for whatever reason then move on and do something different - there are jobs out there and even if it means you end up bush flying in Alaska without all the free accommodation, cheap travel etc. at least you will be a happy.

Jet II, you are conveniently forgetting that this company does like to enforce the bits of the contract that suit them i.e. the training bond.
Also the setup costs when first moving here is not inconsiderable. To walk away owing money at a time when there are few oportunities isn't a luxury many can afford in this environment.
The issue for these people, I believe, is that they left jobs to come here believing certain things that they were told through the recruitment process and now having left the job they had, find they are literally stuck.
It not as simple as "if you don't like it leave", that some like to trot out.

Once again because you are slow Saltaire.

Man, you see what I mean? You are comparing EK with CX, a top top contender. That is not only valid, but also states we can't put EK benefits as average in the market.

As I said, you are slow. You figured something said way before. This is part of my experience, yes.

The place fits my needs now. That's it.

Training bond holds no one that needs or wants to go. How many left when things got better in their home countries? How many paid anything?
Beside, company changes the contract, company gives you an excuse to leave. So leave...

Brilliant Reply !
 

Hi Jet II,

Mate, i think your post/ reply to all the bitching sums the entire topic just perfect.
Infact .... its simply Brilliant and correctly said in just a few words.

Im just a poolie waiting for the call from EK in the near future.
keeping my fingers crossed for a call by the end of this year.

Regards
:ok:

Fellow Poolie.........

If you did not recieve a email invite for a course a couple of
weeks ago, then it is all over. You can expect a "You have expired"
email at some point in the future.

Back to square one, and reapply if you are still interested.

Boy do I ever "Keep Discovering" when it comes to this company.:mad:

to Asianlonghaul
 

My interview was on feb2009. I know there are more than 100 ahead of me waiting.......They just said you may be called by Feb 2010,after 1 year you will have to re-apply.

I'm just trying to understand if EK has became a real nightmare or if it's just worst than it used to be. If someone think that there are better opportunities somewhere just let me know, I'm going to apply right now.
Of course I mean real opportunities not dreams like LH-AF-BA etc etc
Thanks for any suggestions.

Gecko,I was interviewed April last year and I was a poolie ever since.Now they did call people for hiring,they didn't call me and they didn't tell me I am out,either.As far as I know there are plenty like me and the biggest mistake was that I told my family,as well.I shouldn't.Let it happen first and then consider.I know Dubai well,first time I was there was five years ago and it was cheap,last time was six months ago and it was expensive,which made me happy that they gave a solution for me on what to do.Still if your job sucks then go for it but meanwhile keep searching,so you don't end up waiting with no results.
Wish you luck.

Thank you Takisdro, all the best to you too.

gecko 21
 

Have you looked into maybe switching into the bizjet world?
I know the likes of Jet Republic are hiring at the moment. you will need
the right to live and work in Europe though.

Other bizjet jobs are available even in these trying times, but you need to know the right people.

Fjordviking

I just can't fathom how an interview with a company can "expire". If a candidate had what it takes to make it the first time, why should they have to go through the process a second time? It is such a shame that the HR people do not have to go through a similar screening when it comes to their pencil pushing jobs. Then maybe they'd understand the stress of an interview, the continued trial of wading in a holding pool and finally being told that you have to reapply again and go through the whole experience just to prove that you still "have what it takes" :ugh:

They put alot of emphasis on the phych eval and claim it is only valid for 12 months

A question for EK pilots
 

Hi guys,
just a curiosity, if you have the chance (which I doubt) where would you like to fly in Emirates? Boeing or Airbus?

In matter of:

Careers opportunity: I know that a new joiner doesn't have any, but in the long term, considering the A380/A350 or the 777 fleet completition

Quality of life: Days off or fatigue after a turnaround

Type rating: chances to find a job when/if you leave DXB.

Thank you for any reply

I accepted a 777 offer for mid august... im resigning on friday :uhoh:.
One quick question, which bank is better? HSBC or the local one? I will need to send some cash back home.
Thanks.

They obviously don't do the psych. test anymore. Because any normal
person wouldn't come here.

HSBC!!! Though if I choose lloyds which offer EK pilot one free transfer a month or 100dmns $20 for each one after.

Better rep than HSBC as well.

No clear winner I don't think...HSBC is good in that many ATM's and on line banking is quite good. One free wire transfer per month as well. I would recommend opening the account at the Jebel Ali branch, going to Deira, the other main branch is a nightmare.

Ta

Do keep in mind that HSBC in Dubai is a middle east bank it only shares the name with HSBC. Not a big deal. I think the only bank that is not a Mid East bank is Lloyd's. Mashreq is ok as well and has a deal with EPC.

Well, it's clear that I won't have to be making a decision on banks in Dubai. Not taken out of the holding pool.

Anyone know when we'll be sent the "official" word of "thanks but not this time"?

The Darkness