QR limits
 

Hello everyone,

I have heard the rumour that Qatar Airways is again using the crew upto the limits. They are operating flights in the patteren that they land in the morning and again operating back the same night or evening.

Can someone from QR confirm or deny the news please ?

Happy Flying.

Geo

Nothing surprises me...I have done 21hours straight with QR..."special dispensation from DCAM" operated with less than min Cabin Crew..."special dispensation from DCAM"

...almost as nice as DOH/DAC/BKK/MNL with the same crew!!!

Yep it's true...

Maybe Bangkok Layover and A300 man will recall these type of escapades!!??

Cheers

HR

I remember it very well Home sick!!

DOH DAC BKK MNL,less than 24hrs rest and back the same way. and what did they pay us?

Now the latest pattern is,any night flight (such as TRV,COK) is a layover,but if you arrive in the morning after a flight you still have to operate in the evening/night.

DOH/DAC/BKK/MNL...Tiring flight indeed!!! plus a very not understanding CSD... Purser as we call them the old days... Most crew were Filipinos and they have to see their families during the 18 hours layover, they can hardly open their eyes and a full flight almost from Manila.

I can't believe that they are still abusing the crew these days...

Vitto

I never flew with the company as a pax in the 747 days, but have obviously heard all stories about gruellingly long and tiring flights.

And also of flights into Africa for Air Afrique that QR used to operate on their behalf too, which were also long.


Now that QR is going to start Melbourne direct on A333s, does that mean that they will have crew rest areas on the aircraft? Surely EK and others must have crew rest on their flights down under.

Homesick - what is DCAM?

A300 Man.
DCAM was the Directorate of Civil Aviation and Metrology.
Now replaced/renamed Qatar Civil Aviation Authority.

Air afrique however was a very succesfull operation,interms of crew payment and was handled in 3 occations by the Old management,and the last 2 weeks by the Hitler's team.

It was long,but operated only one sector and ferry the return with a layover in Africa.so it wasnt bad.

It was tough for the Flight deck crew though.

QR Limits/Short of crews
 

Could this be because they are short of crews?

Are there enough type rated crews being hired?

I believe they stop hiring non type rated crews, does this mean they will continue to hire non type rated crews to avoid the crew shortage?

Are there any other ideas about this?
:confused:


Cheers :ok:

hm....

Hostler.

Thanks for the lesson. Not everyone speaks English as the first language BTW Do you speak any other language?

Back to my question…:confused: Do you know if QR is hiring non type rated “ P I L O T S “ again?

Thanks for the info. :ok:


P.S. Did I get it right this time?


:sad:

Don't know if they are hiring any non-typerated guys/gals, but I know they just ran some interviews last week of guys that were not type rated.

The interviewing normally would suggest the type of hiring they do but as you know, ANYTHING is possible.

HM:ok:

Thanks for the info HM.

I hope they call soon.

Cheers.

:ok:

.

Anything goes at QR
 

I remember doing Manilla flights with 8 hrs rest, no other reputable airline would allow this except QR.

Just spoken to my mates at QR and everythings still the same: crew are fed up, terrible rules and regulations, terrible CRM - by the way does the SEP manual still have a blank section which is supposed to cover CRM?

Could you imagine if there was a union at QR!!!!!!!!!!!the "airline" would shut down overnight!!!!!

Don't know whether you guys are living in the same world as I do! I fly 330s for QR and this month I have 75 hours rostered. That is the toughest month in the last 4 months. For a few months last winter 90+ hours per month were not unknown but crewing is OK now, plus the JAA flight time limitations have been adopted.

8 hrs turnaround in Manila is bulls**t. The QCAA regs require a minimum of 10 hours IN A HOTEL ROOM. Never in my time with QR have I ever been asked to do anything that comes close to breaching the FTRs.

Virtually nothing in the above posts comes close to the truth. I suspect they are from disaffected staff or people who do not know their regs. Both groups are well represented in the company.

CRM in QR? It is certainly the objective of the Flt Ops department and a great deal of time is spent on it. Unfortunately it has yet to become an every day part of the airlines culture. When company communications improve, senior management publicly adopt the principles of CRM and the CCMs give up their back stabbing and reporting then it might have a chance.

This is a young airline with great potential but, given its age, it can not be expected to exactly mirror a well established airline. Give them time and they will get there.

days off??
 

Crusty please tell me, how many days off in Doha do you get (average) per month?

Thanks for the info.
:ok:

You will only get 8 days off a month rostered.

If they don't have a flight to fill your schedule with, they will put a standby day or a TBN ( to be notified) you will not get more than 8 days off. Occasionally you may see a 9 day off ( once a year perhaps) but this is how it goes at QR.

you could be rostered to fly like a dog for the month, but you will never get a bone for doing it.

" 8 DAYS ONLY.....!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" and if you ask why, they will say, this is what we have been told to give you only 8 days off.

Did I say already, 8 days off?..............

Well thats it...................... 8 days off only.......incase I did not say it already.........

HM

:ok:

Crusty:

Well, call me a liar, but I have operated such flights!! Mind you I left in 2001 so maybe/ hopefully things have changed.

Maybe you joined later on where things matbe ain't so bad if you are flight deck.....as I said in a previous post, I operated 21 hours straight for QR on a DOH DAC turnaround which became delayed and delayed. They needed the aircraft in DOH, took about 6 hours to decide what they wanted to do and then gave that old number..."special dispensation for DCAM".

I believe Mubarak BA was one of the skippers...certainly Karlton and Clinton on the Cabin crew so why don't you check your facts before accusing us of being "disaffected crew who don't know the regs" Or ask Bunty, Crewing Manager...

...oh and just for the record I was actually seconded to the crewing dept for a while and I AM VERY AWARE of the regs!



:mad:

Aha, Homesick.

Now that you mention it, I actually DO indeed remember that flight - the famous DAC turnaround. I also recall that Karlton and Clinton (now gone) were on that flight. It was a famous flight that one - heard many people talking about it. PM me and tell me who was the CSD? (Assume it was an A300, given that the Captain was Alibinali???? He's still going very, very strong, but nowadays on the A330!)


I recall many accounts from various people about excessive flying with QR - but never heard the one about DCAM before.

Anyway - more destinations, more aircraft, more frequencies, more seats (The A330-300), but, alas......LESS crew and less rest.

No matter what, the guys and girls on board are STILL delivering a trul exceptional service. I take my hat off to them.

I have had my arm twisted up my back to try out Etihad next week, for the first time..........let's see what they have to offer.


Cheers,
A300Man

Homesick

You are talking of the good old days and I am reporting how I find things now!

The new regs were only adopted (foisted on the company by the QAA?) recently. They prevent some of the old abuses and make life a little easier.

As for days off! 8 days is the norm and a way is always found to roster you even if there is no work for you to do. I have several times requested 4 or 5 days off in a block and the request has always been granted.

Minimum turnarounds are now the exception rather than the rule but they do still happen, sometimes used as a mechanism to help facilitate a request. :E

4/5 days off in a block? This then poses the question.....ah well perhaps not!

Still giving days off down route to make things "legal?"

AIMS: a marvellous system when you know how!

Cheers

HR

Homesick,
Did that so called "21 hour" flight touch down in Chiangmai-Thailand by any chance?

Just for the Record,...who was the CSD??....George? and was Neil Finley there too,with Samiya Abdi?

BKK:

No mate. but I was working in Crewing when that one happened. Capt AlKhadra...I took the call from him.

No, this was the one that diverted to Calcutta, spent three hours on the ground there, eventually went to DAC and we sat on the aircraft for about 6 hours then they told us to go to the hotel for 12 hours....just as we were about to disembark, the Station Manager came running across the apron telling us that we "have to stay on board and take the aircraft back to DOH...cos they need it...." "special dispensation from DCAM..."

The crewing decision on that one was overruled...quel surprise!

Cheers

HR

Did they let Old Crusty out of the office so he could post on Pprune? Or did he post before he looked at his December roster?

Sorry Old Krusty but QR continues to roster to the limits so no wonder they are always on the phone calling on days off to put a patch here and a patch there.

And as for getting those day off in a row? OK if you know somebody I would think. (Or work in the office?)

QR Limits
 

I fully agree with Crusty Ol Cap'n. I am also on 330 fleet with QR and max BH I have done is 75 in the month.
Cheers.

Popay...

Glad to hear that you are not overloaded on the A330.

But, illegal rostering has and does go on in QR...you just have to know how AIMS works!;)

I, as I am sure many others do, hope that things continue to "ease off" on that side.

Cheers

HR

QR Limits
 

Glad to hear that you are not overloaded on the A330.

"But, illegal rostering has and does go on in QR...you just have to know how AIMS works!"
popay---Thats I don't simply know, cause I don't work in the sched dep, but regarding my personal roster I didn't have any manipulation during the working roster period. What has been done afterwards, as I told you, I don't know and this is not in my compitition to judge.
I would like to emphasize something else. This is corporate culture. I would compare it with the behavior of a Jung co pilot, who thinks that he knows everything he is the best and flying is a kind of competition, where he has to win. This is acceptable from a Jung copilot, cause he still has got time to change, and we simply accept it, because it doesn't really affect us. But it affect us when this happens on the corporate level between the departments and colleges. The general attitude from some ethnic groups (and they are not locals) is, as long as I don't break the rule, I am fine and nothing is going to happen to me and they don't care whether there actions affect others. This is all legal and correct and bla bla bla..., but it basically differs from what I call well established corporate culture: positive attitude of the colleges in a friendly environment still reaching the goal, operationalwise, but nether the less motivation of the personnel through satisfaction of there personnel needs, to a possible level of course, is where we need to go. I hope we will come there soon, because this company has a great potential and I truly believe this can be a great place to work.
Cheers.

I though QR's corporate culture was 'hire n fire' or 'cover your arse'?

Perhaps you guys should ask around the 330 fleet like I have. Over 100 hours for the 31 days for captains and first officers with the odd pilot doing very little on standby. So much for Aims and it's 'fair share' principle?

Back to back Londons, Manila/Bangkoks, etc., is not fair rostering or safe rostering.

Let's face it, QR rosters to the absolute limits because "it's legal".

For example, Shanghai to Doha in winter with NO relief may be legal, but it's not safe! (And please don't suggest that the third pilot provides proper relief because that's ludicrous.)

GB

Perhaps you guys should ask around the 330 fleet like I have.
-------What do you mean ask? I don’t need to ask anybody I am on that fleet and right now in Shanghai. Over 100 hours for the 31 days for captains and first officers with the odd pilot doing very little on standby.
--------That might be true. So much for Aims and it's 'fair share' principle?
--------And that could be true. But I can’t remember any other airline where that was not the case, besides maybe major airlines like BA or UA and that only do to strong union.

Back to back Londons, Manila/Bangkoks, etc., is not fair rostering or safe rostering.
--------Well if you don’t consider it as safe, why do you fly then? Let me remind you that you always have the right to say I don’t feel safe to do so and there will be plenty others willing to do the job and getting money.

Let's face it, QR rosters to the absolute limits because "it's legal".
--------Even if it is so, what’s your problem? You have chosen that job. You don’t like it, change it. It will be like that wherever you go.

For example, Shanghai to Doha in winter with NO relief may be legal, but it's not safe! (And please don't suggest that the third pilot provides proper relief because that's ludicrous.)
--------I don’t do suggest it is safe that’s exactly the reason why we need the relief pilot.
GB
--------Look, don’t get me wrong but this subject exists as long as aviation does, so it’s a question whether you want to keep doing that or you try to change it, or just do a more suitable job. But don’t play that permanent pissed guy totally unsatisfied with the company, but still staying with the company and following unsafe rules. This is not a personnel offend.

My friend popay,

from what I read from your posts you must be very new in the company. Welcome!

I think what the others are trying to say here is that most rosters are really stretched to the limits, 90+ hours is more a rule then an exception and a lot of us are flying backt to back flights with crossing over 8 timezones in between.

You might be one of the lucky ones now with your roster but believe me, it will not stay like that.

It is true, you can refuse a flight because you think it is not safe. At least, thats whats written in the red book, but I would not recommend it. It might follow you around much longer then you want it to.

Once again, rosters are heavy, a lot of nightflying and not an awfull lot of days of. But hey, thats the industry we have chosen to work in and its the same thing all over this little planet.

Good luck

My friend popay,

from what I read from your posts you must be very new in the company. Welcome!
-----Thanks, that’s true.

I think what the others are trying to say here is that most rosters are really stretched to the limits, 90+ hours is more a rule then an exception and a lot of us are flying back to back flights with crossing over 8 time zones in between.
------I just got my roster; it says 93 BH with MNL and PVG and LHR and FCO and so on.

You might be one of the lucky ones now with your roster but believe me, it will not stay
like that.
------It didn’t in deed, so what?

It is true, you can refuse a flight because you think it is not safe. At least, thats whats written in the red book, but I would not recommend it. It might follow you around much longer then you want it to.
------Thanks for the advice, that’s exactly the reason I will not do it. The main difference btw me and previous guy is that, I am not saying: it’s not safe; I am not going to do so and so on… Just take it or leave it. I will take it.

Once again, rosters are heavy, a lot of night flying and not an awful lot of days of. But hey, that’s the industry we have chosen to work in and its the same thing all over this little planet.
-------The roster is heavy in deed, and here again take it or leave it and there will be much more guys willing to get the money.

Good luck
-------Thanks.

Shouldn't it be "take it or get sacked"...well it is as far as the cabin crew are concerned.

Maybe when the safety audit was conducted they forgot to take an indepth look at the rosters.

Bear in mind that AAB even controls that side. Poor Bernard doesn't have any real say in what goes on.

A pity. The cabin crew deserve better.

Cheers

HR

Shouldn't it be "take it or get sacked"...well it is as far as the cabin crew are concerned.
-------It shouldn’t be this way in terms of everybody and there should be no war in Iraq and no Dictators on this planet, but this isn’t the case. So you better get back to reality and the brutal reality is that, we can’t change anything here and we are not supposed to. We are only supposed to do the proper job, which is hard, I agree on that. This might be an unpopular opinion, but I agree with this policy as long as the management gives me a job and I will get paid for it. This is do to simple reason, because I am tired of thinking what the management could have done better and why have I lost my job.
There are some strange rules, but you know them and it’s only a matter of personnel discipline whether you follow them or not and as a consequence whether you going to get in troubles.
I would like to emphasize again that as long as the management is doing proper job and keep my job secured my tolerance level is variable until certain limit of course.

Maybe when the safety audit was conducted they forgot to take an indepth look at the rosters.
---------Well no comments on that, again as long as it legal I don’t have any objection.
Bear in mind that AAB even controls that side. Poor Bernard doesn't have any real say in what goes on.
---------Remember what happened in Europe particular with GB under Mr.
Neville Chamberlain
1937-40
CONSERVATIVE

Neville Chamberlain began his public career in 1915 in Birmingham, where he was born, as its lord mayor. In 1918 he became a member of Parliament. He served as minister of health in the ministry of Law (1923) and in Baldwin's government from (1924-29). He was chancellor of the Exchequer (1931-37) and followed Baldwin as prime minister in May 1937.
Prime minister at the outbreak of World War II, he attempted to establish peaceful relations with Hitler and Mussolini through a policy of appeasement. His approach was not without support, but it resulted in Eden's resignation as foreign secretary and generated bitter opposition from Winston Churchill.
Chamberlain engineered the Munich Pact in September 1938, negotiating with Hitler to settle the question of Czechoslovakia. The agreement signed by Britain, France, Italy and Germany gave the Sudeten, a resource rich area of Czechoslovakia, (one-fifth of the country on the German speaking border) to Germany with other areas going to Hungary and Poland. Returning in triumph to Britain at Heston Airport on September 30th, Chamberlain told a cheering crowd "I believe it is peace in our time." The peace did not last long. Germany took the rest of Czechoslovakia in March of 1938 and Chamberlain was cornered into guaranteeing Poland against attack. When Germany invaded Poland Britain declared war.
The handwriting was on the wall. Chamberlain's own party rebelled against him, forcing his resignation after British forces suffered defeat in Norway. Churchill was named prime minister in May of 1940. Chamberlain joined his cabinet briefly, resigned in October and died on 9 November 1940.

--------Taking the historical experience in to consideration, I would say we need a strong leader as England needed Mr. Churchill in order to succeed in that tuff competition and I am prepared to follow a strong leader. Do you want to feel comfortable loosing the battle and believe in your wishes, or do you want to win the battle, it’s up to you. As long as Mr. AAB is winning the battle, which he does for the time being, I don’t care what he controls. Every time requires an adequate leader.

A pity. The cabin crew deserve better.
--------Well, I wouldn’t differ between cabin and cockpit. I am sure you agree on that, it reflects the actual CRM concept doesn’t it?

Cheers
-------Once again, I would like to undermine that my motivation is purely egoistic.
HR

Hey Popay, why don't you send a copy of the Chamberlain thing to Akbar and Saliya?

Thank you for giving me a laugh on Xmas Eve!

Cheers

HR

Hey Popay, why don't you send a copy of the Chamberlain thing to Akbar and Saliya?
-----------I don’t need to send anything to anybody because I am fully satisfied with my own performance and in first line I am looking after me before I judge about others. I guess that’s why you are a cabin staff and I am cockpit.

Thank you for giving me a laugh on Xmas Eve!
----------I hope your laugh is not hysterical one. I have tried to explain you my opinion and you got pissed and didn’t say anything constructive except criticizing others.
I doubt very much that under your leadership we would reach the same performance, because you simply don’t have the balls for it.
Anyway, have a good laugh.
Cheers

Popay,

Spot the newboy!!LOL

I have criticized, and will continue to critcize, the dictatorship of AAB and Saliya.

Check previous threads and you will realise that I am not alone.

"you simply don’t have the balls for it."

They are in fine working order thank you. New arrival due in May!

Happy Holidays Popay

or should I say Bah Humbug!!?


:} :} :}

Don’t always refer to others, stay for you self. You a free to do what ever you consider being right I will do it also. But then, having done that and got sacked, which I think you are, don’t blame everybody for own mistakes. That’s why there are losers and winners, I guess.
“or should I say Bah Humbug!!?”----- Well, what ever that means. If you are trying to guess who I am, that’s easy, just click on my personal web. I am, at least, not covering myself behind mysterious nickname you know who you are talking to. What about you? Do you have the balls to say who you are, or shell we wait until may?
Anyway I don’t think, this conversation was very constructive. It seems that this forum has degraded to a hot line for sacked cabin crew.

Happy Xmas Popay...you really have made my day and given me a laugh like I say.

I hope you continue to have easy rosters and enjoy QR.

...but watch your back...who knows? That's the way life is in QR whether you agree or not....

Oh and for your info: how can I be hiding behind a name when most people on here know who I am and I have never denied nor confirmed. It really makes no odds to me and really does not and will not affect my future. Whatever happened is in the past and I have no regrets whatsoever. I am just one of many victims. You, very obviously, have no idea and are just privvy to idle gossip not too dissimilar to AAB and SK...

I honestly do not care who you are or what you do, but you do seem to be in a minority...

QR great potential, some great people and a lot of hardworking crew...pity about the treatment and the management. As someone who has experienced the disgusting treatment first hand...I feel I have a right to complain, moan, whinge..whatever you want to call it. I know it won't change a thing, but I will always strive to make people aware of what goes on at QR.

I am happy for you if, so far, you have not witnessed that.

I wish you all the best for the future.

Cheers

HR

Well, thanks for your wishes. I do wish you also all the best, but again I don’t know who you are.
The nick name homesick ray doesn’t say anything to me. Thanks for your recommendations. I do watch my back always regardless of my geographical position.

In all the correspondence we are missing the subject and that’s what do you exactly criticize?

My intention is exactly the same; I want the others to know about what’s going on in QR.

But in order to understand for me and for the rest of the forum, why you always criticizing the QR, we have to know, why you are doing this? To find out why you are doing this, I have to know your motivation. Is your motivation personal revenge on Mr.AAB, because you think you have been abused?
So, what exactly happened to you?
The only reason I am asking is, because I have heard some stories about being abused by the management, but once I have started to get deeper into details on that particular case, its suddenly turned out, that the related person has frequently violated the rules (what’s or ever) and been warned and finally got sacked.
Consequently I have to agree on this managements decision, because it’s been simply caused by the person it’s self.
Unfortunately there are also some colleges in the cockpit doing many stupid things (like drinking whole cappuccino, reserved for first class passengers), which cause the rest of us punishment.
I don’t have to tell you that we are in the service industry, serving the passengers in first line and staff comes as last. And as we are representing the airline with our outfit in the public, so do the actions of one pilot represent pilots as a group to the management.
Again there are pilots among us thinking they have the absolute priority on board and have only to be served by female and as first class passenger immediately after they have entered the cockpit. Is that normal? What would be your reaction on this kind of behaviour?
None of the actions of the management have been just taking without a reason.
My personal opinion on that Mr. AAB control everything is: I hope he continues to do so, because that’s the only way to find out what’s going on in the airline. He doesn’t relay on the information provided by the others, but just goes out on the ramp and watches everything himself.
In my previous airline I have only seen our CEO twice in 6 years and he obviously didn’t have a clue what’s going on. Consequently the airline got bankrupt and the CEO changed to another airline just couple of moths before. 250 Pilot went jobless. I, personally, admire a high ranking management taking care them self about the airline. That shows me, that they do care about us instead of playing golf.
Please don’t get me wrong, I am not saying you are wrong or right, but just be fair and tell the whole story and truth, so the others can judge about it.
Again let’s get exactly and precisely, relaying on facts, not just saying he/she is bad.